Cubs offer to FLA for Pierre is....

[badger1679666666]

I have a question for EVERYONE who is saying too much talent is being given up.

 

Granted this is absolutely true for a one year rental, however, if other teams know your sever weakness (see sub .300 OBP for the leadoff spot) then aren't they going to realize that THEY have the power seat. That the trades will favor them? That we aren't going to be able to just steal something?

 

I just don't get how you think other GM's would voluntarily low ball themselves when they KNOW we need a leadoff/high OBP guy and that's what we are going after.

[CubfaninCA]

 

He's just trolling tonight. I commend his effort. :)

 

What the hell is your problem?

 

Mods, I apologize in advance.

 

I made a very simple point and the guy insisted on nitpicking for some reason.

[abuck1220]

 

He's just trolling tonight. I commend his effort. :)

 

how are you not banned?

 

Huh? I've seen the trolling accusation thrown out various times.

 

I commended you. Ligthen up and be positive.

 

yeah, that's what you did.

[YearofDaCubs]

I have a question for EVERYONE who is saying too much talent is being given up.

 

Granted this is absolutely true for a one year rental, however, if other teams know your sever weakness (see sub .300 OBP for the leadoff spot) then aren't they going to realize that THEY have the power seat. That the trades will favor them? That we aren't going to be able to just steal something?

 

I just don't get how you think other GM's would voluntarily low ball themselves when they KNOW we need a leadoff/high OBP guy and that's what we are going after.

You might be able to snatch up better talent for the same package. Hendry put himself in this position and obviously considering the holes the Cubs have that's a given. I'm not opposed to having Pierre here at all. He will improve the team and will be happy if we acquire him. It doesn't mean he is my first option though.

[CubfaninCA]

Hey a fight between abuck and CFICA not about Rich Hill!!!

 

I can honestly say that I'm shocked.

 

LOL. I'm sitting this one out.

[Mark_R]

Once again, the only way I'm even halfway interested in Pierre is if every reasonable attempt to get Bradley, Wilkerson, or Michaels is shot down. Even then I wouldn't give up too much for Pierre - mostly just Rule 5/optionless spare parts. Mediocre one-year rentals shouldn't cost that much.

Bob, wouldn't Michaels essentially be a one year rental? I'm going off the assumption that Pie would be ready in 2007. Michaels doesn't appear to project enough from a slugging standpoint to be a productive enough corner outfielder. Plus, he's not exactly a spring chicken, either, age wise.

 

He's arby eligible, Pie performs well and it gives the Cubs more options as far as trading him.

 

Michaels performs like I expect and the Cubs want to tarde him to make room for Pie and they'd more in return than losing Pierre for a draft pick.

 

Do you think in the Phillies' mind that Nolasco/Pinto would equate to Wang? I believe that's what you were saying the offer was for Michaels. How high should the Cubs go to obtain Michaels?

 

And I wish he had a full season under his belt to judge him by. I love his OBP, but something just doesn't rub me the right way about a guy who is supposedly that good that can't get 600 PA's. Yes, I know, Marlon Byrd, but the difference in production is staggering between the two.

[abuck1220]

Hey a fight between abuck and CFICA not about Rich Hill!!!

 

I can honestly say that I'm shocked.

 

LOL. I'm sitting this one out.

 

if by 'sitting out' you mean making 10 posts.

[Chris]

I made a very simple point and the guy insisted on nitpicking for some reason.

 

Aren't message boards for discussion?

[UK1679666180]

I don't know if Pinto/Nolasco would? I would try it though. If not, I'd try Williams.

 

Players get type cast, Philly projected him as a 4th OF'er out of Miami.

 

 

He's earned a chance to start, I wouldn't let the futility of Philly dictate the value of Michaels.

[CubfaninCA]

Hey a fight between abuck and CFICA not about Rich Hill!!!

 

I can honestly say that I'm shocked.

 

LOL. I'm sitting this one out.

 

if by 'sitting out' you mean making 10 posts.

 

I'm not going to take the chance of letting this escalate anymore.

[Brian]

This is a legit question that I'd like an answer to.

 

I often see when someone (like Lee last year) puts up a year above his career average, alot of people here say such a thing is an aberation and that person will be back to around their career average next year.

 

BUT

 

a guy is below is career average (like Pierre) this year, and all of a sudden he is in a decline and he won't get back to his career numbers.

 

 

 

It's a shame we have to think like this, but Jim has to pick up someone fast, or it's going to be Preston Wilson. I bet Wrigley's grass helps Juan out alot (assuming this deal goes through).

[UK1679666180]

This is a legit question that I'd like an answer to.

 

I often see when someone (like Lee last year) puts up a year above his career average, alot of people here say such a thing is an aberation and that person will be back to around their career average next year.

 

BUT

 

a guy is below is career average (like Pierre) this year, and all of a sudden he is in a decline and he won't get back to his career numbers.

 

 

 

It's a shame we have to think like this, but Jim has to pick up someone fast, or it's going to be Preston Wilson. I bet Wrigley's grass helps Juan out alot (assuming this deal goes through).

 

Pierre will rebound, there's no doubt in my mind about that. Now, what is his value if he produces at his career norms is up for debate.

[abuck1220]

 

It's a shame we have to think like this, but Jim has to pick up someone fast, or it's going to be Preston Wilson. I bet Wrigley's grass helps Juan out alot (assuming this deal goes through).

 

i've heard other people say that, and i don't understand why. won't the slow grass keep his slap hits from getting through?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

This is a legit question that I'd like an answer to.

 

I often see when someone (like Lee last year) puts up a year above his career average, alot of people here say such a thing is an aberation and that person will be back to around their career average next year.

 

BUT

 

a guy is below is career average (like Pierre) this year, and all of a sudden he is in a decline and he won't get back to his career numbers.

 

 

 

It's a shame we have to think like this, but Jim has to pick up someone fast, or it's going to be Preston Wilson. I bet Wrigley's grass helps Juan out alot (assuming this deal goes through).

 

When did anyone say that Pierre will never return to his career numbers? I've heard several people say 'what if?', but not with the authority that people talk about Lee's career year.

[Mark_R]

I don't know if Pinto/Nolasco would? I would try it though. If not, I'd try Williams.

 

Players get type cast, Philly projected him as a 4th OF'er out of Miami.

 

 

He's earned a chance to start, I wouldn't let the futility of Philly dictate the value of Michaels.

 

Philly is dictating the value of Michaels pretty high if they're starting with a solid pitcher like Wang.

 

I think the Cubs would have to up their offer, like you said, possibly with Jerome Williams.

 

I think 06 is a lost cause for the most part (board pile on ensuing, I know, but I'm not alone). I'd rather keep Williams to hold onto for a better run in 07, because our activity thus far has been dreadful.

[CubfaninCA]

I made a very simple point and the guy insisted on nitpicking for some reason.

 

Aren't message boards for discussion?

 

You didn't get the point I made on pages 1 & 2? It was pretty simple. Non-controversial.

[Andy]

This is a legit question that I'd like an answer to.

 

I often see when someone (like Lee last year) puts up a year above his career average, alot of people here say such a thing is an aberation and that person will be back to around their career average next year.

 

BUT

 

a guy is below is career average (like Pierre) this year, and all of a sudden he is in a decline and he won't get back to his career numbers.

 

 

 

It's a shame we have to think like this, but Jim has to pick up someone fast, or it's going to be Preston Wilson. I bet Wrigley's grass helps Juan out alot (assuming this deal goes through).

 

When did anyone say that Pierre will never return to his career numbers? I've heard several people say 'what if?', but not with the authority that people talk about Lee's career year.

At this point I'm fine with pulling the trigger on a Pierre deal. It's unlikely that Pinto AND Nolasco will amount to a whole lot as a major leaguer and quite possible that neither will do much, whereas Pierre would fill a hole right away. Then trade Patterson, a Rule 5 arm, and a bucket of balls for Bradley, and we have a pretty decent team, especially if Murton picks up where he left off.

[UK1679666180]

To me, a CF'er like Michaels has more value than Williams. I like Williams, but if Philly wanted Williams, I'd do it.

 

Michaels is a great backup plan if Pie struggles and you'll get one year of above avg. production in the process.

 

Michaels will have a better '06 than Williams.

[Brian]

 

It's a shame we have to think like this, but Jim has to pick up someone fast, or it's going to be Preston Wilson. I bet Wrigley's grass helps Juan out alot (assuming this deal goes through).

 

i've heard other people say that, and i don't understand why. won't the slow grass keep his slap hits from getting through?

 

Wouldn't they die in limbo between fielders like infield hits and swinging bunts.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

 

It's a shame we have to think like this, but Jim has to pick up someone fast, or it's going to be Preston Wilson. I bet Wrigley's grass helps Juan out alot (assuming this deal goes through).

 

i've heard other people say that, and i don't understand why. won't the slow grass keep his slap hits from getting through?

 

Wouldn't they die in limbo between fielders like infield hits and swinging bunts.

 

I would think that most of the scratch hits he gets would get slowed up and fielded, which means he's likely out.

[Careless]

 

It's a shame we have to think like this, but Jim has to pick up someone fast, or it's going to be Preston Wilson. I bet Wrigley's grass helps Juan out alot (assuming this deal goes through).

 

i've heard other people say that, and i don't understand why. won't the slow grass keep his slap hits from getting through?

 

Wouldn't they die in limbo between fielders like infield hits and swinging bunts.

I'd bet heavily against it. Long grass+speed is useful for bunting

[nilodnayr]

Once again, the only way I'm even halfway interested in Pierre is if every reasonable attempt to get Bradley, Wilkerson, or Michaels is shot down. Even then I wouldn't give up too much for Pierre - mostly just Rule 5/optionless spare parts. Mediocre one-year rentals shouldn't cost that much.

 

I think Bradley should be below Pierre in terms of priorities/desirability. He should be the player we'd give spare parts to. Injury history, only a season and a half of good production, clubhouse issues + Baker the Enabler...I'd rather overpay to get Pierre than overpay for Bradley.

 

I assume you mean Bradley's 2003 and 2005 as has one and a half good season. So you aren't counting Bradley's 2004 as a good season (362 OBP, 424 Slugging), but you are advocating Pierre, whos best season is 378/415 (which was in 2001, while he was playing in Coors)? I'm really confused.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Am I happy about giving up Pinto and Nolassco for Pierre? Meh.

 

It beats another season of Corey Patterson, but I'd much prefer Wilkerson and Bradley. I don't know if those guys are available, but they would be my prime targets over Pierre. On the other hand, if we do have to pay this price for Pierre, we still have Walker on the team. Since we've already addressed the bullpen, what would we trade Walker for or would we trade Walker?

 

I think there's still a lot of moves to make.

[erik316wttn]

Am I happy about giving up Pinto and Nolassco for Pierre? Meh.

 

It beats another season of Corey Patterson, but I'd much prefer Wilkerson and Bradley. I don't know if those guys are available, but they would be my prime targets over Pierre. On the other hand, if we do have to pay this price for Pierre, we still have Walker on the team. Since we've already addressed the bullpen, what would we trade Walker for or would we trade Walker?

 

I think there's still a lot of moves to make.

 

I think you keep Walker in this situation.

 

Pierre/Walker could be a hell of a 1-2 combo ahead of DLee and Aram.

[nilodnayr]

I have a question for EVERYONE who is saying too much talent is being given up.

 

Granted this is absolutely true for a one year rental, however, if other teams know your sever weakness (see sub .300 OBP for the leadoff spot) then aren't they going to realize that THEY have the power seat. That the trades will favor them? That we aren't going to be able to just steal something?

 

I just don't get how you think other GM's would voluntarily low ball themselves when they KNOW we need a leadoff/high OBP guy and that's what we are going after.

 

Supply and demand...the marlins dont have a monopoly on high OBP CFs who are available. Wilk, Bradley, and Michaels are all better options. If its just the yanks, cubs and bosox competing for only pierre its one thing, but there are multiple better options.