Cubs offer to FLA for Pierre is....

[Outshined_One]

Aren't Nolasco and Pinto B- type prospects? Seriously, I don't know much about them. Anybody have a link that gives the rundown?

 

You got a BA account?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Aren't Nolasco and Pinto B- type prospects? Seriously, I don't know much about them. Anybody have a link that gives the rundown?

 

They're both top 10 in the system coming off of good to great years in AA at age 22. Pinto has more heat than Nolasco, but Nolasco has better control. Both have pretty good, but not dynamite stuff.

[USSoccer]

Aren't Nolasco and Pinto B- type prospects? Seriously, I don't know much about them. Anybody have a link that gives the rundown?

 

Pinto is the 2nd or 3rd best LHP in our system. Nolasco had a breakout year this past year, but IIRC doesn't project to be better than a #3-4 starter.

[UK1679666180]

All this for a potential stop-gap?

 

If Pierre was the missing piece, god bless them. But, Pierre would need to look his left to find the impact that makes the difference.

 

B/c, you could get away with a less productive RF'er if they acq'd Bradley, Wilkerson, or even Michaels. If they get Pierre they'll have to go get an elite RF'er. Someone like Huff or Jones won't cut it.

 

Perhaps they think that between Lee, ARam and Barrett, they have enough power to get by, but need OBP from the top 2 slots, and feel that all they need is a 6 hole hitter from RF.

 

Just trying to think like Hendry.

 

Who would bat 5th? Barrett becomes one of the worst #5 hitters on a team with a thought of making the playoffs. Murton will probably below avg. and then factor Dusty and

 

Pierre

Walker (assuming he's still w/the Cubs)

Lee

Ramirez

?-SS

RF'er

Murton

Barrett

[Chris]

beggers can't be choosers. Not all of our minor league arms are going to make it on the 5 man rotation on the Cubs.

 

the cubs don't have to be beggars, that's the thing. walker would be just as capable as a leadoff guy next year, and he won't cost the cubs half the farm.

 

We have a winner!

[Mizzou]

Aren't Nolasco and Pinto B- type prospects? Seriously, I don't know much about them. Anybody have a link that gives the rundown?

 

Nolasco was ranked 7th in BA's top 10 this year. Pinto wasn't ranked. I dont know what letter grade that correlates to, but a team's #7 prospect and their #11 (at best) for a solid leadoff hitter sounds like a good trade to me.

 

EDIT: Or you could just read the posts before mine from the guys who really know about our minor leaguers!

Edited December 7, 2005 by Mizzou

[Gunned]

Nightmarish.

 

If Pierre returns to a .360 OBP next year and steals at a 75 percent success rate -- is that acceptable?

 

I'm not saying he will ... just wondering what you'd think about those numbers.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Nightmarish.

 

If Pierre returns to a .360 OBP next year and steals at a 75 percent success rate -- is that acceptable?

 

I'm not saying he will ... just wondering what you'd think about those numbers.

 

No, because there's several better options still out there that very likely cost significantly less than what it will apparently cost to get Pierre.

[USSoccer]

All this for a potential stop-gap?

 

If Pierre was the missing piece, god bless them. But, Pierre would need to look his left to find the impact that makes the difference.

 

B/c, you could get away with a less productive RF'er if they acq'd Bradley, Wilkerson, or even Michaels. If they get Pierre they'll have to go get an elite RF'er. Someone like Huff or Jones won't cut it.

 

Perhaps they think that between Lee, ARam and Barrett, they have enough power to get by, but need OBP from the top 2 slots, and feel that all they need is a 6 hole hitter from RF.

 

Just trying to think like Hendry.

 

Who would bat 5th? Barrett becomes one of the worst #5 hitters on a team with a thought of making the playoffs. Murton will probably below avg. and then factor Dusty and

 

Pierre

Walker (assuming he's still w/the Cubs)

Lee

Ramirez

?-SS

RF'er

Murton

Barrett

 

I would assume the lineup would be

 

Pierre

Murton

Lee

Ramirez

Walker

RFTBNL

Barrett

Perez/Cedeno

 

But your point is well taken. I suppose if we couldn't land a RF in a trade, you'd be staring at Preston Wilson as your #5 hitter-which would cause me to puke daily.

Edited December 7, 2005 by USSoccer

[Outshined_One]

Aren't Nolasco and Pinto B- type prospects? Seriously, I don't know much about them. Anybody have a link that gives the rundown?

 

Pinto is the 2nd or 3rd best LHP in our system. Nolasco had a breakout year this past year, but IIRC doesn't project to be better than a #3-4 starter.

 

Personally, I don't think that's the case any more.

 

1) Mark Pawelek

2) Rich Hill

3) Sean Marshall

 

4 is a tossup between Pinto and Veal.

 

Nolasco's breakout year was last season in AA. He was bumped up to AAA before being ready and got knocked around accordingly. He had a pretty darn good year in AA this past season, though.

[cubbyvirus00]

Whose to say that Pie will definitely be ready and kick ass in 07?

 

We really don't know how the kid will react to everything and how well he'll perform.

 

Sure, lets throw Todd Walker into a role hes never played, and lets continue to experiment, while we pray it works out and go on to win a World Series.

 

I'm tired of waiting around and experimenting. I want a proven player, in the proven position, that'll play his heart out. Pierre is guy for the 1 hole.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Whose to say that Pie will definitely be ready and kick ass in 07?

 

We really don't know how the kid will react to everything and how well he'll perform.

 

Sure, lets throw Todd Walker into a role hes never played, and lets continue to experiment, while we pray it works out and go on to win a World Series.

 

I'm tired of waiting around and experimenting. I want a proven player, in the proven position, that'll play his heart out. Pierre is guy for the 1 hole.

 

TODD WALKER HAS MORE AT BATS AT THE LEADOFF SPOT IN HIS CAREER THAN ANY OTHER SPOT. HE IS NOT UNFAMILIAR WITH THAT ROLE.

 

Sorry for the caps, but this has popped up several times, and it's completely false.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Aren't Nolasco and Pinto B- type prospects? Seriously, I don't know much about them. Anybody have a link that gives the rundown?

 

Nolasco was ranked 7th in BA's top 10 this year. Pinto wasn't ranked. I dont know what letter grade that correlates to, but a team's #7 prospect and their #11 (at best) for a solid leadoff hitter sounds like a good trade to me.

 

EDIT: Or you could just read the posts before mine from the guys who really know about our minor leaguers!

 

All,

 

Thanks for the prospect info.

 

 

If I were a Cub fan I'd be OK with this deal. Not great though. Meh.

[hawkeyecub]

Nightmarish.

 

If Pierre returns to a .360 OBP next year and steals at a 75 percent success rate -- is that acceptable?

 

I'm not saying he will ... just wondering what you'd think about those numbers.

 

No, because there's several better options still out there that very likely cost significantly less than what it will apparently cost to get Pierre.

 

But the thing is, we don't know that. What we do know (or at least what has been widely reported) is that Hendry has had discussions with teams for Bradley, Wilkerson and Lugo.

[USSoccer]

Aren't Nolasco and Pinto B- type prospects? Seriously, I don't know much about them. Anybody have a link that gives the rundown?

 

Pinto is the 2nd or 3rd best LHP in our system. Nolasco had a breakout year this past year, but IIRC doesn't project to be better than a #3-4 starter.

 

Personally, I don't think that's the case any more.

 

1) Mark Pawelek

2) Rich Hill

3) Sean Marshall

 

4 is a tossup between Pinto and Veal.

 

Nolasco's breakout year was last season in AA. He was bumped up to AAA before being ready and got knocked around accordingly. He had a pretty darn good year in AA this past season, though.

 

I thought it was:

 

Pawelek

Marshall

Pinto

Hill

[CubsWin22]

Cubs hopeful of landing Pierre

GM Hendry confirms meeting with Marlins, mum on deal

By Carrie Muskat / MLB.com

 

MLB Headlines

 

DALLAS -- The Chicago Cubs may be close to getting their leadoff man.

The Cubs, who lost in the bidding for free agent Rafael Furcal, are believed to be the front-runners for Florida Marlins center fielder Juan Pierre. The Texas Rangers also are in the mix for Pierre, who batted .276 in 162 games with the Marlins in 2005.

 

Cubs general manager Jim Hendry said he made two specific proposals Tuesday during baseball's Winter Meetings but would not confirm the players or the teams involved. Hendry did confirm that he met with the Marlins, who are unloading players at a rapid-fire pace.

 

"If we're fortunate that they will cooperate, we'll be happy," Hendry said.

 

Leadoff was a problem for the Cubs in 2005. The team tried eight different players in the No. 1 spot, and they batted a collective .245.

 

Hendry did dismiss a rumor in which the Cubs were sending Mark Prior to Philadelphia for outfielder Bobby Abreu. Carlos Zambrano also is not on the trading block.

 

"Carlos Zambrano and Mark Prior are not going to be traded by the Chicago Cubs," Hendry said.

 

Finding a leadoff hitter has been one of Hendry's top priorities since losing out in the Furcal sweepstakes. The shortstop decided to sign with the Los Angeles Dodgers, and has agreed in principle to a three-year, $39.5 million deal.

 

 

"Personally, it knocked me down for a couple hours Saturday night at home," Hendry said about losing out on Furcal. "I got up Sunday morning and said, 'Hey, we have to get after it and redirect.' There's nothing you can do about it. I don't have any regrets about the offer we made. That was what I thought was a very good offer."

 

Sources close to the negotiations said the Cubs dangled three options, including a five-year, $47.5 million offer

 

bump for those who didn't see this part.

[abuck1220]

Getting Pierre keeps Neifi out of the leadoff spot. I won't be mad if his obp is .370 either.

 

And what if it's .326 like it was last year?

 

That's the chances you have to take. At least it's about .200 points better than Patterson right? ;)

 

why is that a chance you have to take? that makes no sense.

 

He's posted .378, .374, and .361 too.

 

and a .332. what's your point?

 

yeah, he could be a decent leadoff guy, but there are only a few one year rentals that i give up the top 3 minor league arms for -- and slappy mcgee ain't one of them.

 

and unless you're finding a way to get dunn, abreu or manny (w/o your top minor league arms, who you traded for your dreamboat, once in a lifetime, 'prototypical leadoff guy, mind you), this team isn't going anywhere next year anyway. so what's the point in giving up the farm for a guy that can help you win 81 games instead of 79?

[USSoccer]

Whose to say that Pie will definitely be ready and kick ass in 07?

 

We really don't know how the kid will react to everything and how well he'll perform.

 

Sure, lets throw Todd Walker into a role hes never played, and lets continue to experiment, while we pray it works out and go on to win a World Series.

 

I'm tired of waiting around and experimenting. I want a proven player, in the proven position, that'll play his heart out. Pierre is guy for the 1 hole.

 

Not to nitpick, but that doesn't matter a lick. I'd rather make trades based on tangibles.

 

I agree with you on Pie, though.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Nightmarish.

 

If Pierre returns to a .360 OBP next year and steals at a 75 percent success rate -- is that acceptable?

 

I'm not saying he will ... just wondering what you'd think about those numbers.

 

No, because there's several better options still out there that very likely cost significantly less than what it will apparently cost to get Pierre.

 

But the thing is, we don't know that. What we do know (or at least what has been widely reported) is that Hendry has had discussions with teams for Bradley, Wilkerson and Lugo.

 

If we're going to believe Nolasco and Pinto were offered for Pierre, then we have to assume that Patterson plus might be able to get you Bradley or Wilkerson.

[cubbyvirus00]

Please give me the stats Todd Walker had batting leadoff.

 

Compare those to Pierre.

 

 

Even if Walker is marginally better, I'd rather have Pierre batting first.

 

No, because there's several better options still out there that very likely cost significantly less than what it will apparently cost to get Pierre.

 

What players are you speaking of, on the trade block, that'll bite at an offer of Nolasco/Pinto?

[UK1679666180]

Whose to say that Pie will definitely be ready and kick ass in 07?

 

We really don't know how the kid will react to everything and how well he'll perform.

 

Sure, lets throw Todd Walker into a role hes never played, and lets continue to experiment, while we pray it works out and go on to win a World Series.

 

I'm tired of waiting around and experimenting. I want a proven player, in the proven position, that'll play his heart out. Pierre is guy for the 1 hole.

 

Let's say Pierre does well and Pie struggles at AAA, the Cubs get to enter a bidding war for Pierre the following year. Or they sign him to a long-term deal this Spring to prevent him from becoming a FA and then let the battle begin.

 

I can tell you right now, Pie is better defensively than Pierre at this moment.

[Mizzou]

Cubs hopeful of landing Pierre

GM Hendry confirms meeting with Marlins, mum on deal

By Carrie Muskat / MLB.com

 

MLB Headlines

 

DALLAS -- The Chicago Cubs may be close to getting their leadoff man.

The Cubs, who lost in the bidding for free agent Rafael Furcal, are believed to be the front-runners for Florida Marlins center fielder Juan Pierre. The Texas Rangers also are in the mix for Pierre, who batted .276 in 162 games with the Marlins in 2005.

 

Cubs general manager Jim Hendry said he made two specific proposals Tuesday during baseball's Winter Meetings but would not confirm the players or the teams involved. Hendry did confirm that he met with the Marlins, who are unloading players at a rapid-fire pace.

 

"If we're fortunate that they will cooperate, we'll be happy," Hendry said.

 

Leadoff was a problem for the Cubs in 2005. The team tried eight different players in the No. 1 spot, and they batted a collective .245.

 

Hendry did dismiss a rumor in which the Cubs were sending Mark Prior to Philadelphia for outfielder Bobby Abreu. Carlos Zambrano also is not on the trading block.

 

"Carlos Zambrano and Mark Prior are not going to be traded by the Chicago Cubs," Hendry said.

 

Finding a leadoff hitter has been one of Hendry's top priorities since losing out in the Furcal sweepstakes. The shortstop decided to sign with the Los Angeles Dodgers, and has agreed in principle to a three-year, $39.5 million deal.

 

 

"Personally, it knocked me down for a couple hours Saturday night at home," Hendry said about losing out on Furcal. "I got up Sunday morning and said, 'Hey, we have to get after it and redirect.' There's nothing you can do about it. I don't have any regrets about the offer we made. That was what I thought was a very good offer."

 

Sources close to the negotiations said the Cubs dangled three options, including a five-year, $47.5 million offer

 

bump for those who didn't see this part.

 

I'm glad that Hendry went on record with the second bolded part of that quote.

[Careless]

I'll take it. With Pierre leading off, who hits second? With Dusty in charge, it's gotta be a righty, so maybe, just MAYBE, Murton or Cedeno?

 

If he has any clue about how best to maximize the lineup, then it should be Murton.

 

so... basically what you're saying is Murton bats 7th next year.

 

8th. Definitely. Gotta maximize that 8th spot. It's a weakness in most other lineups, but in the Cubs lineup? It's as good as a solid 2hole hitter.

 

well, at least he's setting the table for Z and Prior. :lol:

Z can slug

[USSoccer]

Whose to say that Pie will definitely be ready and kick ass in 07?

 

We really don't know how the kid will react to everything and how well he'll perform.

 

Sure, lets throw Todd Walker into a role hes never played, and lets continue to experiment, while we pray it works out and go on to win a World Series.

 

I'm tired of waiting around and experimenting. I want a proven player, in the proven position, that'll play his heart out. Pierre is guy for the 1 hole.

 

Let's say Pierre does well and Pie struggles at AAA, the Cubs get to enter a bidding war for Pierre the following year. Or they sign him to a long-term deal this Spring to prevent him from becoming a FA and then let the battle begin.

 

I can tell you right now, Pie is better defensively than Pierre at this moment.

 

If Pie struggles at AAA, do you want him up at the ML level? He's pretty young still, so why rush him?

[badger1679666666]

Getting Pierre keeps Neifi out of the leadoff spot. I won't be mad if his obp is .370 either.

 

And what if it's .326 like it was last year?

 

That's the chances you have to take. At least it's about .200 points better than Patterson right? ;)

 

why is that a chance you have to take? that makes no sense.

 

He's posted .378, .374, and .361 too.

 

and a .332. what's your point?

 

yeah, he could be a decent leadoff guy, but there are only a few one year rentals that i give up the top 3 minor league arms for -- and slappy mcgee ain't one of them.

 

and unless you're finding a way to get dunn, abreu or manny (w/o your top minor league arms, who you traded for your dreamboat, once in a lifetime, 'prototypical leadoff guy, mind you), this team isn't going anywhere next year anyway. so what's the point in giving up the farm for a guy that can help you win 81 games instead of 79?

 

 

Don't you think calling giving up Nolasco and Pinto "giving up the farm" is a wee bit dramatic? Neither is even a top 5 Cub prospect, maybe not even top 10.