Marlins Firesale?

[USSoccer]

But why couldn't Florida attach Lowell to Pierre or Castillo?

 

Because Beckett has a lot more trade value and Lowell's contract is horrible.

 

True, but I'm saying that there are other possibilities.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Kerry and Maddux are gone after 2006, so picking up Beckett now would just mean we're moving up the replacement timetable one year, which IMO is advisable given the shaky health of Kerry and Prior, and also the fact that a talent like Beckett doesn't come on the market every day.

 

So, again, what does it take to get him?

 

Depends on what the other bidders are offering, but I would offer Hill and Cedeno to start. Furcal+Neifi means Cedeno will not get a fair chance with the Cubs until 2008 at the earliest. I'd rather sell him while his value is high. I would also trade Hill+Pie for Beckett, but I'd much prefer moving Cedeno before Pie.

 

I think it would take Williams and Pie to start. IF they offered Castillo, I would also give them Walker and one other P.

 

Any deal for Beckett is going to have Lowell attached to it.

 

Okay, so you deal for Beckett and Lowell, and give up Williams, Moore and Hill. Then you can spin Lowell and Nolasco to TEX for Mench?

 

If taking Lowell is the only way to get Beckett, then it would give me a little pause. It will be hard to move Lowell. But why couldn't Florida attach Lowell to Pierre or Castillo?

 

Texas only wants Lowell if they're getting Beckett. Florida could attach Lowell to Pierre or Castillo, but are under the belief the best way to get maximum value is to attach him to Beckett. From everything I've read, he's available if you take Lowell and is being openly shopped that way. Even my source in Houston confirms that Lowell and Beckett are being shopped as a package deal.

[USSoccer]

Texas only wants Lowell if they're getting Beckett. Florida could attach Lowell to Pierre or Castillo, but are under the belief the best way to get maximum value is to attach him to Beckett. From everything I've read, he's available if you take Lowell and is being openly shopped that way. Even my source in Houston confirms that Lowell and Beckett are being shopped as a package deal.

 

Would you be willing to take Beckett if there was a chance Lowell became a very expensive backup 1B/3B bench player? I don't see a whole lot of teams that are going to want him on their own.

[Diffusion]

For the record, the contracts on the Marlins are...

 

Lowell, 06:$9M, 07:$9M

Castillo, 06:$5M, 07:$5.75M club option ($0.5M buyout)

Lo Duca, 06:$6.25M, 07:$6.25M (plus $0.8m in signing bonus outstanding)

Delgado, 06:$13.5M, 07:$14.5M, 08:$16M, 09:$12M/16M options ($4M buyout)

Villone, 06:$2M (plus incentives and $0.25m in signing bonus outstanding)

 

And Pierre ($3.4M in 2005, 1 yr from FA), Beckett ($2.4M, 2 yrs from FA) and Mota ($2.6M in 2005, 1 yr from FA) are arbitration eligible.

 

Encarnacion, Burnett, Gonzalez, Conine, Valdez, Jones, Easley, Harris, Moehler, Alfonseca, Quantrill, Mecir and Mordecai are all free agents.

 

Everyone else is kids, and by virtue of their price tag, almost certainly not available. Sorry Dontrelle Willis, Miguel Cabrera and Jeremy Hermida fans.

[HoopsCubs]

Texas only wants Lowell if they're getting Beckett. Florida could attach Lowell to Pierre or Castillo, but are under the belief the best way to get maximum value is to attach him to Beckett. From everything I've read, he's available if you take Lowell and is being openly shopped that way. Even my source in Houston confirms that Lowell and Beckett are being shopped as a package deal.

 

Would you be willing to take Beckett if there was a chance Lowell became a very expensive backup 1B/3B bench player? I don't see a whole lot of teams that are going to want him on their own.

 

Beckett is too good of a talent to pass on lightly. Minnesota is interested in Lowell. Yankees want Torii Hunter. If I'm Hendry, I work out a 4-team deal a la the Nomar deal from 2004.

 

Marlins trade Beckett and Lowell to the Cubs for Glendon Rusch, Adam Greenberg and a marginal pitching prospect, but with the Cubs picking up Lowell's entire contract.

 

The Cubs turn around and deal Lowell, Walker, Patterson, a young pitching prospect and some cash (maybe $2M for Lowell) to Minnesota for Torii Hunter, and JC Romero.

 

The Cubs then trade Hunter to the Yankees for Gary Sheffield.

 

Net: Cubs get Beckett and Sheffield

[USSoccer]

Texas only wants Lowell if they're getting Beckett. Florida could attach Lowell to Pierre or Castillo, but are under the belief the best way to get maximum value is to attach him to Beckett. From everything I've read, he's available if you take Lowell and is being openly shopped that way. Even my source in Houston confirms that Lowell and Beckett are being shopped as a package deal.

 

Would you be willing to take Beckett if there was a chance Lowell became a very expensive backup 1B/3B bench player? I don't see a whole lot of teams that are going to want him on their own.

 

Beckett is too good of a talent to pass on lightly. Minnesota is interested in Lowell. Yankees want Torii Hunter. If I'm Hendry, I work out a 4-team deal a la the Nomar deal from 2004.

 

Marlins trade Beckett and Lowell to the Cubs for Glendon Rusch, Adam Greenberg and a marginal pitching prospect, but with the Cubs picking up Lowell's entire contract.

 

The Cubs turn around and deal Lowell, Walker, Patterson, a young pitching prospect and some cash (maybe $2M for Lowell) to Minnesota for Torii Hunter, and JC Romero.

 

The Cubs then trade Hunter to the Yankees for Gary Sheffield.

 

Net: Cubs get Beckett and Sheffield

 

There's no way Florida would take that. You have to substitute Rusch with Williams at minimum. Even Texas is giving up Hank Blalock in the rumored deal. I would think Williams, Greenberg and either Hill, Nolasco or Harvey might work.

 

I can see the 2nd half of your deal, just not the first.

Edited November 20, 2005 by USSoccer

[Diffusion]

Texas only wants Lowell if they're getting Beckett. Florida could attach Lowell to Pierre or Castillo, but are under the belief the best way to get maximum value is to attach him to Beckett. From everything I've read, he's available if you take Lowell and is being openly shopped that way. Even my source in Houston confirms that Lowell and Beckett are being shopped as a package deal.

 

Would you be willing to take Beckett if there was a chance Lowell became a very expensive backup 1B/3B bench player? I don't see a whole lot of teams that are going to want him on their own.

 

Beckett is too good of a talent to pass on lightly. Minnesota is interested in Lowell. Yankees want Torii Hunter. If I'm Hendry, I work out a 4-team deal a la the Nomar deal from 2004.

 

Marlins trade Beckett and Lowell to the Cubs for Glendon Rusch, Adam Greenberg and a marginal pitching prospect, but with the Cubs picking up Lowell's entire contract.

 

The Cubs turn around and deal Lowell, Walker, Patterson, a young pitching prospect and some cash (maybe $2M for Lowell) to Minnesota for Torii Hunter, and JC Romero.

 

The Cubs then trade Hunter to the Yankees for Gary Sheffield.

 

Net: Cubs get Beckett and Sheffield

 

Your plan is brilliant all the way up until you mention Beckett/Lowell for Rusch/Greenberg/marginal pitching prospect.

 

Blalock/Diamond is pretty much already on the table, because Texas will come around on the pitching prospect if push comes to shove.

 

Now Blalock is ridiculously overrated, but I'll take him over Rusch/Greenberg, and obviously you take Diamond/Danks over a marginal Cub pitching prospect.

 

If the Cubs want Beckett, a player the Cubs are actually going to miss is going to be in the deal.

[TB_11]

Texas only wants Lowell if they're getting Beckett. Florida could attach Lowell to Pierre or Castillo, but are under the belief the best way to get maximum value is to attach him to Beckett. From everything I've read, he's available if you take Lowell and is being openly shopped that way. Even my source in Houston confirms that Lowell and Beckett are being shopped as a package deal.

 

Would you be willing to take Beckett if there was a chance Lowell became a very expensive backup 1B/3B bench player? I don't see a whole lot of teams that are going to want him on their own.

 

Beckett is too good of a talent to pass on lightly. Minnesota is interested in Lowell. Yankees want Torii Hunter. If I'm Hendry, I work out a 4-team deal a la the Nomar deal from 2004.

 

Marlins trade Beckett and Lowell to the Cubs for Glendon Rusch, Adam Greenberg and a marginal pitching prospect, but with the Cubs picking up Lowell's entire contract.

 

The Cubs turn around and deal Lowell, Walker, Patterson, a young pitching prospect and some cash (maybe $2M for Lowell) to Minnesota for Torii Hunter, and JC Romero.

 

The Cubs then trade Hunter to the Yankees for Gary Sheffield.

 

Net: Cubs get Beckett and Sheffield

 

That would work out great for the Cubs, but I would think the Marlins would want more than that, given that the current rumored deal gives them Blaylock + a prospect from Texas.

[HoopsCubs]

There's no way Florida would take that. You have to substitute Rusch with Williams at minimum. Even Texas is giving up Hank Blalock in the rumored deal.

 

But why is that? Is that because Texas needs to shed payroll in order to take on Lowell? Maybe Florida feels entitled to a top prospect because they are picking up some of Lowell's contract. I'm advocating the Cubs pick up Lowell's entire deal for Beckett, and as such, not give anything back.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong. I just want to know. If the Cubs come in and pick up 2 years and $18M, I would think Florida would say thank you very much.

 

Hoops

[Warpticon]

Sorry Dontrelle Willis, Miguel Cabrera and Jeremy Hermida fans.

 

You know, I had no idea who Jeremy Hermida was until you posted this. I just looked him up. Hooooooooly crap.

[Diffusion]

There's no way Florida would take that. You have to substitute Rusch with Williams at minimum. Even Texas is giving up Hank Blalock in the rumored deal.

 

But why is that? Is that because Texas needs to shed payroll in order to take on Lowell? Maybe Florida feels entitled to a top prospect because they are picking up some of Lowell's contract. I'm advocating the Cubs pick up Lowell's entire deal for Beckett, and as such, not give anything back.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong. I just want to know. If the Cubs come in and pick up 2 years and $18M, I would think Florida would say thank you very much.

 

Hoops

 

No, it's because the Marlins actually want talent in return for their best pitcher, regardless of the fact that they're dumping a bad-ish contract in the process.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

There's no way Florida would take that. You have to substitute Rusch with Williams at minimum. Even Texas is giving up Hank Blalock in the rumored deal.

 

But why is that? Is that because Texas needs to shed payroll in order to take on Lowell? Maybe Florida feels entitled to a top prospect because they are picking up some of Lowell's contract. I'm advocating the Cubs pick up Lowell's entire deal for Beckett, and as such, not give anything back.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong. I just want to know. If the Cubs come in and pick up 2 years and $18M, I would think Florida would say thank you very much.

 

Hoops

 

I believe Texas would pick up all of Lowell's contract in this deal.

[Diffusion]

Sorry Dontrelle Willis, Miguel Cabrera and Jeremy Hermida fans.

 

You know, I had no idea who Jeremy Hermida was until you posted this. I just looked him up. Hooooooooly crap.

 

Also famous for hitting a grand slam in his first major league plate appearance.

[frostwyrm]

Texas only wants Lowell if they're getting Beckett. Florida could attach Lowell to Pierre or Castillo, but are under the belief the best way to get maximum value is to attach him to Beckett. From everything I've read, he's available if you take Lowell and is being openly shopped that way. Even my source in Houston confirms that Lowell and Beckett are being shopped as a package deal.

 

Would you be willing to take Beckett if there was a chance Lowell became a very expensive backup 1B/3B bench player? I don't see a whole lot of teams that are going to want him on their own.

 

Beckett is too good of a talent to pass on lightly. Minnesota is interested in Lowell. Yankees want Torii Hunter. If I'm Hendry, I work out a 4-team deal a la the Nomar deal from 2004.

 

Marlins trade Beckett and Lowell to the Cubs for Glendon Rusch, Adam Greenberg and a marginal pitching prospect, but with the Cubs picking up Lowell's entire contract.

 

The Cubs turn around and deal Lowell, Walker, Patterson, a young pitching prospect and some cash (maybe $2M for Lowell) to Minnesota for Torii Hunter, and JC Romero.

 

The Cubs then trade Hunter to the Yankees for Gary Sheffield.

 

Net: Cubs get Beckett and Sheffield

 

We get Beckett and Sheffield for some spare parts and $2M cash? Sounds way too good to be true.

[Roast]

 

We get Beckett and Sheffield for some spare parts and $2M cash? Sounds way too good to be true.

 

As did Nomar and Murton for Agonz and a couple of Minor League pitchers.

 

As did Lofton and Aram for JosK and hill.

 

All I'm saying is while the final product sounds farfetched, each induvidual part of it is reasonable.

[USSoccer]

There's no way Florida would take that. You have to substitute Rusch with Williams at minimum. Even Texas is giving up Hank Blalock in the rumored deal.

 

But why is that? Is that because Texas needs to shed payroll in order to take on Lowell? Maybe Florida feels entitled to a top prospect because they are picking up some of Lowell's contract. I'm advocating the Cubs pick up Lowell's entire deal for Beckett, and as such, not give anything back.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong. I just want to know. If the Cubs come in and pick up 2 years and $18M, I would think Florida would say thank you very much.

 

Hoops

 

They have to get something tangible in return for both, unless they are ready to completely wash their hands of South Florida (which they very well might be). I just think they'd want a pitcher better than Rusch at minimum.

[frostwyrm]

There's no way Florida would take that. You have to substitute Rusch with Williams at minimum. Even Texas is giving up Hank Blalock in the rumored deal.

 

But why is that? Is that because Texas needs to shed payroll in order to take on Lowell? Maybe Florida feels entitled to a top prospect because they are picking up some of Lowell's contract. I'm advocating the Cubs pick up Lowell's entire deal for Beckett, and as such, not give anything back.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong. I just want to know. If the Cubs come in and pick up 2 years and $18M, I would think Florida would say thank you very much.

 

Hoops

 

They have to get something tangible in return for both, unless they are ready to completely wash their hands of South Florida (which they very well might be). I just think they'd want a pitcher better than Rusch at minimum.

 

I agree, and if the Marlins are cutting payroll why would they want Rusch at 2yrs/$6M?. He's hardly a bargain at that price. I also doubt the Marlins would willingly let a fantastic talent like Beckett get away for zero talent in return. There must be some way for them to move Lowell without it coming to that.

[USSoccer]

Would you give up Pie and Williams?

[rawaction]

Don't the Marlins threaten a firesale every year, then end up signing a big name free agent? Delgado and Pudge come to mind.

[donobr]

Yes

[donobr]

Yes

[USSoccer]

Don't the Marlins threaten a firesale every year, then end up signing a big name free agent? Delgado and Pudge come to mind.

 

Isn't this time much more likely, though? No stadium deal, no Burnett, no Penny...I see some parts being sold off as they reload from their system.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Don't the Marlins threaten a firesale every year, then end up signing a big name free agent? Delgado and Pudge come to mind.

 

Isn't this time much more likely, though? No stadium deal, no Burnett, no Penny...I see some parts being sold off as they reload from their system.

 

I agree.

 

Also, I would give up Pie and Williams in a heartbeat to get Beckett.

[Jehrico]

Don't the Marlins threaten a firesale every year, then end up signing a big name free agent? Delgado and Pudge come to mind.

 

Isn't this time much more likely, though? No stadium deal, no Burnett, no Penny...I see some parts being sold off as they reload from their system.

 

I agree.

 

Also, I would give up Pie and Williams in a heartbeat to get Beckett.

 

I'd give Pie, pay Lowell's salary, and let them keep Lowell, in exchange for Beckett. Beckett's a special guy that only comes available once in awhile, and the one thing we have plenty of this year is $$. Considering Loria's background, and the Marlins need for $, we should be able to make something happen.

 

As for Lowell, if we can't get a Giles or Dunn type, if we're looking at a Jacque Jones type instead, what about seeing if Lowell can play RF? He's got good enough of an arm and is quick enough, I believe, to pull it off, just not the experience. He was horrible last year, but I think it's likely he'll return to his career norms (or what they were before '05): .345-.350 OBP, 25 HRs, .275 BA? His numbers, like Lee's, could benefit from leaving Pro Player stadium too, so it's not too unrealistic that he could exceed his career norms by a little bit. The Marlins are selling low on Lowell, and are going to lose an elite pitcher in the process. I would love to see Hendry jump in on this action.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

If you eat half of Lowell's contract, you could move him somewhere like the Dodgers, who need a 3B and (if Kent moves to 1B) a 2B. Texas as mentioned is a possibility. The Nationals could be interested if Jose Vidro is toast. The Royals want to make a splash with the $20MM in new payroll ownership has given them.

 

Eat enough of Lowell's contract, and he's moveable. He's not TOO old, he's a year removed from a good season, and as awful as he was last year, he still drove in over 50 runs. That would be respectable production if he plays 2B.