I honestly feel a huge trade coming......

[WrigleyinEngland]

Gooney, I think you are bang on with that. there is no point making a huge splash for the sake of it and it not helping the team. An example of this would be a trade for Adam Dunn, we would then lose Murton who did a more than adequate job. However if Hendry then uses Myrton to obtain a stud RF i'm all for it. I've read alot of trade ideas for a LF ie Huff and no thought as to what happens to Murton or who play RF.

[HoopsCubs]

god forbid we actually wait for him to finish the off season, instead of being 2 weeks into it, before we crucify him at the stake.

 

:roll:

 

(not directed at you two above)

 

God forbid we actually make the effort to analyze what we've already seen and use that information to make an educated guess that we'll just see more of the same.

 

An educated guess takes into consideration the deals to get Lee, Ramirez, Barrett, Murton, Nomar and Lawton. With all the payroll & talent available this offseason, he'll most likely make a big move.

 

I don't care about big, I care about good.

 

This team has gotten worse, and Hendry hasn't shown any sort of urgency to fix the biggest problems.

 

He clearly has done a much different root cause analysis of the Cubs woes than most of the folks here. He seems enamored with what the Sox and Astros did this year: pitch, pitch some more, catch the ball, and steal a run.

 

His one token offensive move seems to be focused on getting a speedy guy at the top of the lineup.

 

Hendry clearly has a plan. We just don't like the plan. I wish we could prove to him that despite the injuries to Prior and Wood, had we had Todd Walker leading off, and another high OBP/high SLG guy batting 5th behind Lee and Ramirez, we probably could have won the wild card despite the poor defense and average pitching.

Edited November 17, 2005 by HoopsCubs

[Cubfanintheknow]

Yeah, everybody thought a big trade was coming last offseason too after Sosa left. I'm taking the wait and see approach.

 

What big trade was that?? The Cubs had their hands tied.... I vaguely recall most hoping that the Cubs would be able to save some money dealing Sosa, so the Cubs could get Beltran or Drew. Also, there was hope that Floyd would be dealt for Sosa. Sosa just had no market appeal tho.

 

Boy, did you just open a can of worms!

[mg420]

god forbid we actually wait for him to finish the off season, instead of being 2 weeks into it, before we crucify him at the stake.

 

:roll:

 

(not directed at you two above)

 

 

Amazing how fast (a little over two years) someone can go from God and Genius (after stealing Aram, Lofton and Lee) to incompetent buffoon. :?

 

before 2005 kenny williams was the worst gm in baseball and now he's a wonderboy. of course if the sox tank next year he'll be aweful again.

[WrigleyinEngland]

Hoops i think you may be right, i'm hoping though that he will realise that some of the problem relates to replacing an outfield of Sosa, Alou and a productive Cpatt with the crud that played last year was also insrtumental in the abysmal peformance of this team.

[CubfaninCA]

god forbid we actually wait for him to finish the off season, instead of being 2 weeks into it, before we crucify him at the stake.

 

:roll:

 

(not directed at you two above)

 

God forbid we actually make the effort to analyze what we've already seen and use that information to make an educated guess that we'll just see more of the same.

 

An educated guess takes into consideration the deals to get Lee, Ramirez, Barrett, Murton, Nomar and Lawton. With all the payroll & talent available this offseason, he'll most likely make a big move.

 

I don't care about big, I care about good.

 

This team has gotten worse, and Hendry hasn't shown any sort of urgency to fix the biggest problems.

 

He'll make some good moves.

 

The lineup basically had 8 holes after 2003. He fixed 5 of them by 2005. Unfortunately, Patterson & DuBois never panned out, and Nomar can't hold up... However, this team will rebound this year. Hendry brings in some guys I don't care for, but for the most part he's good @ acquiring talent.

[ConstableRabbit]

If not, we can rag on him, but let's just see if there's some sort of master plan he's working on before shooting him down.

 

He's been the GM for 3 years, and was ASST GM for a couple years before that, reportedly the force behind most of the moves officially signed off on by Andy. Hendry's fingerprints are all over this team already. This isn't his first offseason. This isn't a case of jumping to conclusions. I've seen the results of Hendry's work to date, and it's entirely unimpressive, to say the least.

 

This isn't anything like jumping on a manager for one loss.

 

You probably know more about Hendry than I do, as I did not follow him or his work before becoming GM, so I can't really comment on that, but you're certainly entitled to your own opinion.

[ConstableRabbit]

god forbid we actually wait for him to finish the off season, instead of being 2 weeks into it, before we crucify him at the stake.

 

:roll:

 

(not directed at you two above)

 

Yep.

 

I view these boards every day, and have for months even before I joined, and I've gotta say that there's been a lot of conclusion-jumping going on around here lately. (And that's not to say that I'm completely exempt from doing it either!) Naturally, during an offseason following a few very disappointing seasons, some emotions are going to be running high, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. If you want to say Hendry sucks and is a moron, that's fine, but he's the same Hendry who has come through in the past and until the offseason is over, it'll be very hard pass true judgement upon him. If you hate him, that's completely fine, (this is a place for people to share their opinions after all), but when he makes a great deal to help our team, don't jump on his bandwagon (or bandWGN) all of a sudden.

 

This is like the situation a team's manager faces after a game ends on a suicide squeeze:

The manager sends the runner on 3rd for a game-winning suicide squeeze, but when the runner is called out, the media and fans criticize the manager for calling for such a risky move. However, had the move been successful, people would've been praising his name and talking about how great of a manager he was.

 

We don't know the whole of Hendry's moves. And by assuming that the moves he's made, the comments he's stated, are to be taken 100% at face value, yeah, he's a moron. But for just one second, consider that there's some strategy in what he's doing. There's a reason he's a general manager for a major league ballclub - odds are, he knows what he's doing.

 

If not, we can rag on him, but let's just see if there's some sort of master plan he's working on before shooting him down.

You mean the Hendry who only came through in 2003? Last year we were 4th in our division. In 2004 we choked and a case could be made that the only reason we made it to the playoffs in 2003 was because the Cards and Astros faultered at the end. No I dont have that much faith in Hendry and last time he did something was 3 years ago. If history is any indicator of future success I would have to say that Hendry and the 100mil payroll does not know what he's doing.

 

No one expected us to finish 4th last year, and the major reasons for our failure were not Hendry-related, imo. Sure, the Sosa deal turned out badly, but to many fans, the creedo was "get him out at any cost". I would argue that the majority of 2005's failure had to do with Dusty misusing his team.

 

Yes, Hendry decided to stick with Baker, but that move could've been more political than we're willing to admit. I'm going to wait out this offseason before making any final decision on Hendry.

[goonys evil twin]

He'll make some good moves.

 

Hendry brings in some guys I don't care for, but for the most part he's good @ acquiring talent.

 

I don't really care about "some good moves". I want him to create a great team, and unlike 70% of the league, he has no excuse to fail to create a great team. I'm not interested in him simply doing well for the most part. I don't want to see another 88 win season. This has to be a championship caliber team, and it should be a 90+ win team every year for the next 2-4 years. That doesn't mean simply acquiring a couple good players. It means making a series of great moves, not overpaying for mediocrity but then offsetting it with a nice role player.

 

There is no reason why this team can't be a top 4 run scoring team and a top 4 run preventing team in the NL.

[ConstableRabbit]

He'll make some good moves.

 

Hendry brings in some guys I don't care for, but for the most part he's good @ acquiring talent.

 

I don't really care about "some good moves". I want him to create a great team, and unlike 70% of the league, he has no excuse to fail to create a great team. I'm not interested in him simply doing well for the most part. I don't want to see another 88 win season. This has to be a championship caliber team, and it should be a 90+ win team every year for the next 2-4 years. That doesn't mean simply acquiring a couple good players. It means making a series of great moves, not overpaying for mediocrity but then offsetting it with a nice role player.

 

There is no reason why this team can't be a top 4 run scoring team and a top 4 run preventing team in the NL.

 

I agree. In fact, I would say that most Cub fans agree.

What I was getting at earlier was, we don't know if he's in the process of building a great team. Let's wait until the offseason ends before deciding if he's a fool or not.

[goonys evil twin]

He'll make some good moves.

 

Hendry brings in some guys I don't care for, but for the most part he's good @ acquiring talent.

 

I don't really care about "some good moves". I want him to create a great team, and unlike 70% of the league, he has no excuse to fail to create a great team. I'm not interested in him simply doing well for the most part. I don't want to see another 88 win season. This has to be a championship caliber team, and it should be a 90+ win team every year for the next 2-4 years. That doesn't mean simply acquiring a couple good players. It means making a series of great moves, not overpaying for mediocrity but then offsetting it with a nice role player.

 

There is no reason why this team can't be a top 4 run scoring team and a top 4 run preventing team in the NL.

 

I agree. In fact, I would say that most Cub fans agree.

What I was getting at earlier was, we don't know if he's in the process of building a great team. Let's wait until the offseason ends before deciding if he's a fool or not.

 

Yeah, well, I'm reserving final judgement until things are, of course, final. My feelings so far are based on what has happened to date and how that affects me opinion of what is likely to happen.

[wade]

I believe the plan is to make a significant trade because of the following-

 

The club has a lot of decent, young pitchers in the bullpen and AAA. Some other guys in the minors (besides Leiceter (sp?)) could potentially be Rule V casualties.

 

Hendry has been quoted as saying the free agent market is thin and he expects more wheeling and dealing this off-season.

 

Baseball analysts have been predicting the same.

 

Neifi Perez was signed. With the money he was signed for, he will play quite a bit if he does not start. That's just the way it is. You do not (as management) spend a lot of money on someone who will not log some hours. This leads to-

 

Todd Walker. Analysts have said he's attractive to other teams. Other teams have said he's attractive. Walker and the above player, combined with the following player, and Ronny Cedeno, give the team a glut of middle infielders.

 

Rafael Furcal is free agent target number one. See above.

 

I feel that this makes Todd Walker a goner. And I'm not discounting Cedeno as a goner. Combine that with the pitching surplus, Hendry's statements, and analyst statements, and I agree that trades are coming.

 

There are holes in the outfield and Hendry feels they are best filled via trade, instead of Giles, is what I deduce.

[UK1679666180]

Yeah, everybody thought a big trade was coming last offseason too after Sosa left. I'm taking the wait and see approach.

 

What big trade was that?? The Cubs had their hands tied.... I vaguely recall most hoping that the Cubs would be able to save some money dealing Sosa, so the Cubs could get Beltran or Drew. Also, there was hope that Floyd would be dealt for Sosa. Sosa just had no market appeal tho.

 

Part of the blame falls on the Cubs for Sosa's drop in market value and how they treated the situation, whether making it public how he left early and they're obvious intentions of trading him regardless of the return. Hard to build up demand when you're forcing someone out the door and you made it public.

 

People want to blame Sosa for low demand last off-season and he's partially at fault for leaving early, but the Cubs are at fault for killing whatever value he had.

 

They look for good characters last off-season get rid of Sosa, Farnsy, Mercker, etc largely based on their attitudes and they end up getting in media war with one of the bad apples...

 

The irony.

[goonys evil twin]

They look for good characters last off-season get rid of Sosa, Farnsy, Mercker, etc largely based on their attitudes and they end up getting in media war with one of the bad apples...

 

I hadn't thought of this yet, but I'm sure his fan club has.

 

Mercker vs Eyre

 

 

Discuss.

Edited November 17, 2005 by goony's evil twin

[The Voice of Reason]

All right, I am a Hendry backer. Hendry's strength is making trades for the most part. I am sure someone will throw a trade back at me to prove I am wrong, but so be it. I am not worried yet that he has shown no interest in Giles. I am not worried that he has offered (insert avg. reliever here) so much money.

 

I will base my judgement of JH in March when the season is getting ready to begin. In my opinion, if he has not made the club better by then, he could start hearing grumblings from me.

 

Hendry has gotten four legitimate starters via trade with Barrett, Lee, Ramirez, and Murton. I am guessing he has a few things on the table. Pierre, although not everyone's top choice, would be a starter on any big league team, now if that team wins or not is another story.

 

I will wait and save my opinion of Hendry until March.

 

 

You sir, are truly the voice of reason - too bad that name is already taken. :lol:

[SouthSideRyan]

Part of the blame falls on the Cubs for Sosa's drop in market value and how they treated the situation, whether making it public how he left early and they're obvious intentions of trading him regardless of the return. Hard to build up demand when you're forcing someone out the door and you made it public

 

I've been over this roughly 184 times. Sosa had an option that would vest if he was traded. He had negative value at the end of the year with that vesting option. Only by letting Sosa know how miserable he'd be here was Hendry able to get him to walk away from 19M. Without the smear campaign, Sosa is back here, or the Cubs pick up an even greater amount of salary.

[CubfaninCA]

He'll make some good moves.

 

Hendry brings in some guys I don't care for, but for the most part he's good @ acquiring talent.

 

I don't really care about "some good moves". I want him to create a great team, and unlike 70% of the league, he has no excuse to fail to create a great team. I'm not interested in him simply doing well for the most part. I don't want to see another 88 win season. This has to be a championship caliber team, and it should be a 90+ win team every year for the next 2-4 years. That doesn't mean simply acquiring a couple good players. It means making a series of great moves, not overpaying for mediocrity but then offsetting it with a nice role player.

 

There is no reason why this team can't be a top 4 run scoring team and a top 4 run preventing team in the NL.

 

It's hard to be great when the $18 million franchise player takes one of quickest trips down the toilet in baseball history.

 

Btw how many franchises are great?? New York, Boston and??? St. Louis?? Anaheim?? Houston??

Edited November 17, 2005 by CubfaninCA

[UK1679666180]

Go over it 185 times or 284 times if it makes you happy then, cause I don't buy it.

 

Sosa held all the cards, he knew he would be miserable here regardless how little the Cubs wanted him back. Showing tapes of Sosa leaving does nothing but smear him.

 

They are ways to do it properly and improperly and they choose to do it incorrectly, IMO.

[SouthSideRyan]

You think a Sammy Sosa that was still a hero to many many Cub fans wanted to voluntarily walk away from 19M? Some boo birds started coming out towards the 2nd half of '04, but Sosa was the most hated man in Chicago by the time he was traded. The lemmings bought it hook line and sinker, it was night and day from October 1st to February 1st.

 

I just don't see how Sosa waives the guaranteed money at the end of the season.

 

What do you suggest as the proper way to help Sosa get the hint that life would be hell? How do you suggest convincing Cub fans that Sosa is the devil incarnate?

[YearofDaCubs]

Go over it 185 times or 284 times if it makes you happy then, cause I don't buy it.

 

Sosa held all the cards, he knew he would be miserable here regardless how little the Cubs wanted him back. Showing tapes of Sosa leaving does nothing but smear him.

 

They are ways to do it properly and improperly and they choose to do it incorrectly, IMO.

On Hendry's latest interview he even admitted fault to how that Sosa situation was handled. That should tell you right there how bad it was and how quickly that diminshed Sosa's value.

[CubfaninCA]

Go over it 185 times or 284 times if it makes you happy then, cause I don't buy it.

 

Sosa held all the cards, he knew he would be miserable here regardless how little the Cubs wanted him back. Showing tapes of Sosa leaving does nothing but smear him.

 

They are ways to do it properly and improperly and they choose to do it incorrectly, IMO.

 

Once the steroid rumors came out.... The Cubs were screwed.. Reap what you sow I guess.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

You think a Sammy Sosa that was still a hero to many many Cub fans wanted to voluntarily walk away from 19M? Some boo birds started coming out towards the 2nd half of '04, but Sosa was the most hated man in Chicago by the time he was traded. The lemmings bought it hook line and sinker, it was night and day from October 1st to February 1st.

 

I just don't see how Sosa waives the guaranteed money at the end of the season.

 

What do you suggest as the proper way to help Sosa get the hint that life would be hell? How do you suggest convincing Cub fans that Sosa is the devil incarnate?

 

What? We shouldn't have run him out of town politely. I don't think anyone is saying that. We just didn't need to destroy his value before we traded him.

[UK1679666180]

Go over it 185 times or 284 times if it makes you happy then, cause I don't buy it.

 

Sosa held all the cards, he knew he would be miserable here regardless how little the Cubs wanted him back. Showing tapes of Sosa leaving does nothing but smear him.

 

They are ways to do it properly and improperly and they choose to do it incorrectly, IMO.

 

Once the steroid rumors came out.... The Cubs were screwed.. Reap what you sow I guess.

 

Steroid rumors starting after '04?

 

The rumors started well before that.

[UK1679666180]

You think a Sammy Sosa that was still a hero to many many Cub fans wanted to voluntarily walk away from 19M? Some boo birds started coming out towards the 2nd half of '04, but Sosa was the most hated man in Chicago by the time he was traded. The lemmings bought it hook line and sinker, it was night and day from October 1st to February 1st.

 

I just don't see how Sosa waives the guaranteed money at the end of the season.

 

What do you suggest as the proper way to help Sosa get the hint that life would be hell? How do you suggest convincing Cub fans that Sosa is the devil incarnate?

 

The Cubs did well at making him look bad, that's what happens you publically have evidence to make him look bad, like airing leaving the parking lot early to catch Sosa in an obvious lie.

 

You want to get a point across, tell him that Hollandsworth/Dubois will likely be the starting RF'er next year and we're looking for a LF'er. You think he'd want to come back knowing he's the most expensive 4th OF'er in history?

 

Why suggest to Cubs fans that Sosa is the devil, what are they trying to accomplish? You honestly think that the actions of fans would dictate Sosa's decision? I don't, I think it was a childish ploy for a response from the actions of a child (Sosa).

[CubfaninCA]

You think a Sammy Sosa that was still a hero to many many Cub fans wanted to voluntarily walk away from 19M? Some boo birds started coming out towards the 2nd half of '04, but Sosa was the most hated man in Chicago by the time he was traded. The lemmings bought it hook line and sinker, it was night and day from October 1st to February 1st.

 

I just don't see how Sosa waives the guaranteed money at the end of the season.

 

What do you suggest as the proper way to help Sosa get the hint that life would be hell? How do you suggest convincing Cub fans that Sosa is the devil incarnate?

 

NO ONE would have taken Sosa w/ that trade kicker. If people think Burnitz was bad, how would they had liked Sosa in rf last year. Talk about the worse outfield in baseball history.