How about just signing Giles??

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Read his post again. Difference between Giles and other RF option > Difference between Furcal and Cedeno.

 

That's the thing. As UK pointed out the Cubs are desperate for a leadoff guy and Furcal and/or Pierre seem to be the targets. Cedeno IMO isn't deemed as a leadoff guy by the Cubs and for some reason the non-scooting (UK again) abilities of Walker and Murton will not give them the chance toi hit at the top of the order. Giles would be wonderful but would he be worth getting if Baker has Perez leading off?

 

The leadoff guy doesn't have to come from SS though. And this doesn't mean you can't pursue Furcal, just that given our resources, Giles should be our top priority.

[CuseCubFan69]

Read his post again. Difference between Giles and other RF option > Difference between Furcal and Cedeno.

 

That's the thing. As UK pointed out the Cubs are desperate for a leadoff guy and Furcal and/or Pierre seem to be the targets. Cedeno IMO isn't deemed as a leadoff guy by the Cubs and for some reason the non-scooting (UK again) abilities of Walker and Murton will not give them the chance toi hit at the top of the order. Giles would be wonderful but would he be worth getting if Baker has Perez leading off?

 

The leadoff guy doesn't have to come from SS though. And this doesn't mean you can't pursue Furcal, just that given our resources, Giles should be our top priority.

 

You're preaching to the choir CPatt. The one that makes the lineup thinks otherwise so I'm just saying what we are up against as Baker has certain hitters can only be certain things in that old school mind of his.

[goonys evil twin]

There are too many posts to quote. So I'll just say it:

 

Furcal at 27 is nowhere near past his prime. It's a total strawman argument. If you don't like his skillset, fine. Just say you don't like it and you don't think he is a fit for the Cubs. But to claim at 27 year old is past his prime or will rapidly decline is absurd. Especially given the numbers prove otherwise, so there isn't even a possibility of propping the argument up with anything.

 

As for the topic - Giles is a great acquisition and a great fit. I would be very happy to have him in Wrigley. I take issue with the hypocrisy that Giles won't decline over a 3 year contract, but guys 5-8 years younger will.

 

It's not a matter of decline, it's a matter of nowhere to go up. Furcal brings a 750 OPS to this team. He's not going to break out into an elite SS. He's going to give you good, but not great production from SS. Giles is going to give you great production from RF. He's going to give you a .400+ OBP, and away from Petco, still very good SLG (somewhere around .500). Furcal to me is a lot like some other young, extremely physically gifted, but not all that productive players of the recent past who rode the hype wagon to the bank with big money deals, ARod and Jeter set the high water mark for the position and showed just how much of a premium can be paid if you play SS and hit. Tejada signed the new saner version of the top dollar SS contract, while Nomar foolishly passed on his chance to do the same (luckily for Boston). Renteria and Cabrera signed the insanely overpriced 2nd tier SS deal for $8m/year, even though they weren't any more production than many others at the position. The team that pays more for Furcal will be paying that overinflated premium, without getting the benefits of actual production.

 

Average SS production isn't that far below good SS production. The Cubs can get average SS production for nothing.

 

Average RF production is far below good RF production. The Cubs are likely to not even get average production, assuming the list of names that have been mentioned for the spot is accurate.

[goonys evil twin]

Read his post again. Difference between Giles and other RF option > Difference between Furcal and Cedeno.

 

That's the thing. As UK pointed out the Cubs are desperate for a leadoff guy and Furcal and/or Pierre seem to be the targets. Cedeno IMO isn't deemed as a leadoff guy by the Cubs and for some reason the non-scooting (UK again) abilities of Walker and Murton will not give them the chance toi hit at the top of the order. Giles would be wonderful but would he be worth getting if Baker has Perez leading off?

 

The leadoff guy doesn't have to come from SS though. And this doesn't mean you can't pursue Furcal, just that given our resources, Giles should be our top priority.

 

You're preaching to the choir CPatt. The one that makes the lineup thinks otherwise so I'm just saying what we are up against as Baker has certain hitters can only be certain things in that old school mind of his.

 

I don't really like Pierre, but I'd much rather have Pierre, Giles, Lee, Ramirez........Cedeno, than Pierre, Furcal, Lee, Ramirez, (ball catching RF).

[frostwyrm]

I have wanted a middle IF of Cedeno/Walker all along, but it ain't gonna happen. When Neifi was re-signed that was Walker's signal to pack his bags. I don't see Giles as a Cub either, simply because a lot of his value rests on his ability to draw walks, and Hendry doesn't think much of walks. The OF I'm really hoping for is Gary Sheffield.

[goonys evil twin]

I have wanted a middle IF of Cedeno/Walker all along, but it ain't gonna happen. When Neifi was re-signed that was Walker's signal to pack his bags. I don't see Giles as a Cub either, simply because a lot of his value rests on his ability to draw walks, and Hendry doesn't think much of walks. The OF I'm really hoping for is Gary Sheffield.

 

Sheffield would be a big disappointment in my opinion. He's angling for his last contract, and I don't want it with the Cubs.

 

I'm still holding out hope based on the fact that the Cubs always seemed to fear Giles a lot when playing his teams, and they tend to look at Cubs killers from time to time.

[CuseCubFan69]

Read his post again. Difference between Giles and other RF option > Difference between Furcal and Cedeno.

 

That's the thing. As UK pointed out the Cubs are desperate for a leadoff guy and Furcal and/or Pierre seem to be the targets. Cedeno IMO isn't deemed as a leadoff guy by the Cubs and for some reason the non-scooting (UK again) abilities of Walker and Murton will not give them the chance toi hit at the top of the order. Giles would be wonderful but would he be worth getting if Baker has Perez leading off?

 

The leadoff guy doesn't have to come from SS though. And this doesn't mean you can't pursue Furcal, just that given our resources, Giles should be our top priority.

 

You're preaching to the choir CPatt. The one that makes the lineup thinks otherwise so I'm just saying what we are up against as Baker has certain hitters can only be certain things in that old school mind of his.

 

I don't really like Pierre, but I'd much rather have Pierre, Giles, Lee, Ramirez........Cedeno, than Pierre, Furcal, Lee, Ramirez, (ball catching RF).

 

Me too but remember the Cubs will have Perez at SS and Cedeno if he's lucky at 2nd. The Cubs have so many good options available I hope Mr. Hendry takes advantage of them.

[CubinNY]

I have wanted a middle IF of Cedeno/Walker all along, but it ain't gonna happen. When Neifi was re-signed that was Walker's signal to pack his bags. I don't see Giles as a Cub either, simply because a lot of his value rests on his ability to draw walks, and Hendry doesn't think much of walks. The OF I'm really hoping for is Gary Sheffield.

 

Oh, it can be much worse than that. I could invision a scenario where Neifi is the starting SS and Cedeno is the 2nd baseman. In that scenario we have Piere in CF and Preston Wilson in RF. I wake up in a cold sweat when I think about it, but it could very well happen.

[goonys evil twin]

Me too but remember the Cubs will have Perez at SS and Cedeno if he's lucky at 2nd. The Cubs have so many good options available I hope Mr. Hendry takes advantage of them.

 

They'd only have Perez at SS if they are stupid. If they sign Giles, they won't be stupid, so I wouldn't assume Perez at SS.

[stitchface]

if its not neifi, who is it going to be goony? cedeno? do you believe that?

 

adding giles and furcal would increase team VORP by 84. 48 for giles over burnitz and 36 for furcal over neifi. given those numbers, 9 and 12 make sense relaively speaking.

[goonys evil twin]

if its not neifi, who is it going to be goony? cedeno? do you believe that?

 

adding giles and furcal would increase team VORP by 84. 48 for giles over burnitz and 36 for furcal over neifi. given those numbers, 9 and 12 make sense relaively speaking.

 

I'm talking about what I think the Cubs should do. They should sign Giles, first and foremost. If they can fit in Furcal after that, fine. But Giles is the first priority. If Furcal goes back to Atlanta, the Braves suddenly have to cut elsewhere, then take Marcus off their hands, and you have a perfect situation to introduce Cedeno to the lineup.

[ConstableRabbit]

if its not neifi, who is it going to be goony? cedeno? do you believe that?

 

adding giles and furcal would increase team VORP by 84. 48 for giles over burnitz and 36 for furcal over neifi. given those numbers, 9 and 12 make sense relaively speaking.

 

I'm talking about what I think the Cubs should do. They should sign Giles, first and foremost. If they can fit in Furcal after that, fine. But Giles is the first priority. If Furcal goes back to Atlanta, the Braves suddenly have to cut elsewhere, then take Marcus off their hands, and you have a perfect situation to introduce Cedeno to the lineup.

 

Yes, BGiles should definately be our #1 priority.

[CubinNY]

if its not neifi, who is it going to be goony? cedeno? do you believe that?

 

adding giles and furcal would increase team VORP by 84. 48 for giles over burnitz and 36 for furcal over neifi. given those numbers, 9 and 12 make sense relaively speaking.

 

I'm talking about what I think the Cubs should do. They should sign Giles, first and foremost. If they can fit in Furcal after that, fine. But Giles is the first priority. If Furcal goes back to Atlanta, the Braves suddenly have to cut elsewhere, then take Marcus off their hands, and you have a perfect situation to introduce Cedeno to the lineup.

 

I like it.

[BigbadB]

I would definitely trade Walker for B. Giles. The pot could be sweetened if necessary, also.

[UK1679666180]

I think it's impossible to put odds on whether Cedeno or Perez would be the starting SS if those were the two choices.

 

You can either way and come up with a valid point, even though that shouldn't be the case and that what scares me.

[stitchface]

I see. Unfortunately best options now have to be weighed considering how to minimize the number of times neifi picks up a bat. If you consider only RF free agents, you have to get giles. furccal is a better option than marcus though unless you actually play cedeno (who managed 4.5 VORP in 89 PAs (so figure 25-30 in a full season projected conservatively). Furcal was at 36. This is a no-brainer. I agree with Goony. Sign Giles, then worst case you have cedeno at SS and Walker at 2b. This is clearly the best option as you can overpay giles and still have money to spend elsewhere. upgrading to marcus giles only makes sense if you can keep him longterm IMO.

[EricG]

could just leave team as is:

SS cedeno

2B walker

1B lee

3B ramirez

RF Hairston

C barrett

LF murton

CF patterson

The day that a team does anything with Jerry Hairston Jr batting 5th is the day I sprout four more limbs.

 

you could swap barrett and Hairston. maybe even move hairston after murton. The biggest hole is RF. Giles would fill that hole but Hendry likes Furcal and likes to shop for blue light specials at Kmart so Giles probably wont happen.