2005-06 College Basketball Thread

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Unfortunately, it seems you've fallen into the Mizzou fan trap. You mean to tell me this loss was that much worst than getting blown out at home against Iowa State or losing at home to Colorado? I said pretty much the same thing after those losses. And, no, I'm not as sensitive as others when Cardinal fans make statements like we choke when we did in 2004. Oh, yes, I was using hyperbole when I said Mizzou's b-ball program should be given the death penalthy for losing by 26 to Baylor. Then again, and you wouldn't know this, I said the same things after Illinois' loss to Penn State and Wisconsin's loss to ND State. But then this is your first year at Mizzou, so you haven't been frustrated with the program for the last few years.

 

I never said anything about the loss compared to any other(although losing to Colorado on the last shot isn't nearly as bad as blowouts against ISU @ home or @ Baylor). Congratulations for being more thick skinned than most, but you have to understand you come off like a jerk when you pile on with hyperbole on a rival after a bad loss.

[dalgreen]

Unfortunately, it seems you've fallen into the Mizzou fan trap. You mean to tell me this loss was that much worst than getting blown out at home against Iowa State or losing at home to Colorado? I said pretty much the same thing after those losses. And, no, I'm not as sensitive as others when Cardinal fans make statements like we choke when we did in 2004. Oh, yes, I was using hyperbole when I said Mizzou's b-ball program should be given the death penalthy for losing by 26 to Baylor. Then again, and you wouldn't know this, I said the same things after Illinois' loss to Penn State and Wisconsin's loss to ND State. But then this is your first year at Mizzou, so you haven't been frustrated with the program for the last few years.

 

I never said anything about the loss compared to any other(although losing to Colorado isn't nearly as bad as blowouts against ISU @ home or @ Baylor). Congratulations for being more thick skinned than most, but you have to understand you come off like a jerk when you pile on with hyperbole on a rival after a bad loss.

 

A jerk? Right. Considering I haven't heard from Mizzou or any other posters other than you, I'll consider that's just you speaking out on emotion after a bad loss. I have no earthly idea why you took what I said so personal, I was being absolutely facetious when speaking of the death penalty, and I said Alden and Snyder should be fired --- not for just this year's crappy performance, but crappy performance over the year's and you took offense even though, as you stated, there are lots of people with the same opinion. I think Mizzou has four of the last six on the road, so I hope you're prepared.

 

If Illinois loses at OSU on Sunday, I won't take the negative as personal unless what is said is false. That's when I take things personal.

[bmkhawk]

Whoever Duke's point guard is (Paulus?) is absolutely the worst starter for a top 3 team I've ever seen. He looks about as good as I would out there.

 

JJ Redick is the only good player on that team. It's a miracle they've only lost once.

 

They've lacked depth for several years now, I doubt they make it past the round of 16 once they lose the officiating edge they seem to enjoy in the regular season.

 

And UNC ties it up.

 

Part of the reason they lack depth is because they've lost a bunch of players to early entry, but you can't tell me thee's not some junior that can run that offense better that the kid who looks scared to death running it now.

I dislike Duke as much as anyone, but I think you are being pretty hard on a kid who had seven assists tonight and is averaging over 5 per game this year (plus a steal and a half a game).

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Whoever Duke's point guard is (Paulus?) is absolutely the worst starter for a top 3 team I've ever seen. He looks about as good as I would out there.

 

JJ Redick is the only good player on that team. It's a miracle they've only lost once.

 

They've lacked depth for several years now, I doubt they make it past the round of 16 once they lose the officiating edge they seem to enjoy in the regular season.

 

And UNC ties it up.

 

Part of the reason they lack depth is because they've lost a bunch of players to early entry, but you can't tell me thee's not some junior that can run that offense better that the kid who looks scared to death running it now.

I dislike Duke as much as anyone, but I think you are being pretty hard on a kid who had seven assists tonight and is averaging over 5 per game this year (plus a steal and a half a game).

 

Not trying to take away from him, but I wonder how many of those are passing from the top of the key to a spotted up Redick? Paulus doesn't look that comfortable out there, the greatest example of this is his inability to find Redick at the end of one of their losses, can't remember which. However, I must say I was impressed with him knocking down those free throws at the end of the game.

[dalgreen]

Whoever Duke's point guard is (Paulus?) is absolutely the worst starter for a top 3 team I've ever seen. He looks about as good as I would out there.

 

JJ Redick is the only good player on that team. It's a miracle they've only lost once.

 

They've lacked depth for several years now, I doubt they make it past the round of 16 once they lose the officiating edge they seem to enjoy in the regular season.

 

And UNC ties it up.

 

Part of the reason they lack depth is because they've lost a bunch of players to early entry, but you can't tell me thee's not some junior that can run that offense better that the kid who looks scared to death running it now.

I dislike Duke as much as anyone, but I think you are being pretty hard on a kid who had seven assists tonight and is averaging over 5 per game this year (plus a steal and a half a game).

 

Considering that Duke has only three vets and only one loss, I, like you, am finding it hard to believe the criticism that's being placed on Duke's freshmen. I'm an Illinois fan, and we have seniors who, at times, play as if they're freshmen.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Unfortunately, it seems you've fallen into the Mizzou fan trap. You mean to tell me this loss was that much worst than getting blown out at home against Iowa State or losing at home to Colorado? I said pretty much the same thing after those losses. And, no, I'm not as sensitive as others when Cardinal fans make statements like we choke when we did in 2004. Oh, yes, I was using hyperbole when I said Mizzou's b-ball program should be given the death penalthy for losing by 26 to Baylor. Then again, and you wouldn't know this, I said the same things after Illinois' loss to Penn State and Wisconsin's loss to ND State. But then this is your first year at Mizzou, so you haven't been frustrated with the program for the last few years.

 

I never said anything about the loss compared to any other(although losing to Colorado isn't nearly as bad as blowouts against ISU @ home or @ Baylor). Congratulations for being more thick skinned than most, but you have to understand you come off like a jerk when you pile on with hyperbole on a rival after a bad loss.

 

A jerk? Right. Considering I haven't heard from Mizzou or any other posters other than you, I'll consider that's just you speaking out on emotion after a bad loss. I have no earthly idea why you took what I said so personal, I was being absolutely facetious when speaking of the death penalty, and I said Alden and Snyder should be fired --- not for just this year's crappy performance, but crappy performance over the year's and you took offense even though, as you stated, there are lots of people with the same opinion. I think Mizzou has four of the last six on the road, so I hope you're prepared.

 

If Illinois loses at OSU on Sunday, I won't take the negative as personal unless what is said is false. That's when I take things personal.

 

I'm not disagreeing with your points about Snyder or Alden, but you said something false about fans criticizing Alden, and then used that as your rationale to call Mizzou fans(of which I and several others on this site are) and Missouri media among the worst in the country. That's why I took offense.

[dalgreen]

Unfortunately, it seems you've fallen into the Mizzou fan trap. You mean to tell me this loss was that much worst than getting blown out at home against Iowa State or losing at home to Colorado? I said pretty much the same thing after those losses. And, no, I'm not as sensitive as others when Cardinal fans make statements like we choke when we did in 2004. Oh, yes, I was using hyperbole when I said Mizzou's b-ball program should be given the death penalthy for losing by 26 to Baylor. Then again, and you wouldn't know this, I said the same things after Illinois' loss to Penn State and Wisconsin's loss to ND State. But then this is your first year at Mizzou, so you haven't been frustrated with the program for the last few years.

 

I never said anything about the loss compared to any other(although losing to Colorado isn't nearly as bad as blowouts against ISU @ home or @ Baylor). Congratulations for being more thick skinned than most, but you have to understand you come off like a jerk when you pile on with hyperbole on a rival after a bad loss.

 

A jerk? Right. Considering I haven't heard from Mizzou or any other posters other than you, I'll consider that's just you speaking out on emotion after a bad loss. I have no earthly idea why you took what I said so personal, I was being absolutely facetious when speaking of the death penalty, and I said Alden and Snyder should be fired --- not for just this year's crappy performance, but crappy performance over the year's and you took offense even though, as you stated, there are lots of people with the same opinion. I think Mizzou has four of the last six on the road, so I hope you're prepared.

 

If Illinois loses at OSU on Sunday, I won't take the negative as personal unless what is said is false. That's when I take things personal.

 

I'm not disagreeing with your points about Snyder or Alden, but you said something false about fans criticizing Alden, and then used that as your rationale to call Mizzou fans(of which I and several others on this site are) and Missouri media among the worst in the country. That's why I took offense.

 

One thing I'm not sure you realize (and if you do, I apologize) is that I lived in St. Louis during Alden's tenure. Many people have excused him for the Ricky Clemons situation, the death of the football player last year (I forgot his name), the fact that his hires in football and basketball haven't done what fans thought when they were hired several years ago. I worked with and have several friends who are Mizzou alums who are just now beginning to finally criticize Alden (not to mention what crap I heard on St. Louis sports radio). In no way did I intend to say 100% of Mizzou fans think the same way, but the ones I know definitely do. All I heard from a lot of fans and alum after Mizzou hired Pinkel and Snyder was how they were going to bring the two programs to national prominence. Snyder did take a team to the elite eight, but even then they were just a 12-seed-- meaning they were one of the last at-large bids handed out. I still stand by my opinion that Mizzou fans are one of the worst in terms of expectations. Three years ago beating Nebraska in football shouldn't have gotten to the point where when you win you tear down the goal-posts. Even I, a Mizzou hater, thought two years ago with Brad Smith, that Mizzou would be participating in the Big 12 championship game before his eligibility was up and beating any Big 12 North team would be the norm.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I'm not disagreeing with your points about Snyder or Alden, but you said something false about fans criticizing Alden, and then used that as your rationale to call Mizzou fans(of which I and several others on this site are) and Missouri media among the worst in the country. That's why I took offense.

 

One thing I'm not sure you realize (and if you do, I apologize) is that I lived in St. Louis during Alden's tenure. Many people have excused him for the Ricky Clemons situation, the death of the football player last year (I forgot his name), the fact that his hires in football and basketball haven't done what fans thought when they were hired several years ago. I worked with and have several friends who are Mizzou alums who are just now beginning to finally criticize Alden (not to mention what crap I heard on St. Louis sports radio). In no way did I intend to say 100% of Mizzou fans think the same way, but the ones I know definitely do. All I heard from a lot of fans and alum after Mizzou hired Pinkel and Snyder was how they were going to bring the two programs to national prominence. Snyder did take a team to the elite eight, but even then they were just a 12-seed-- meaning they were one of the last at-large bids handed out. I still stand by my opinion that Mizzou fans are one of the worst in terms of expectations. Three years ago beating Nebraska in football shouldn't have gotten to the point where when you win you tear down the goal-posts. Even I, a Mizzou hater, thought two years ago with Brad Smith, that Mizzou would be participating in the Big 12 championship game before his eligibility was up and beating any Big 12 North team would be the norm.

 

The football player's name was Aaron O'Neal. In my experience, it's been the opposite with expectations. Most figured the football team would be where it was, not quite great, and not quite terrible. They lost some games they shouldn't have, and that's why most have either a neutral or negative view of Pinkel. Most here hate Snyder, some to the point where they wouldn't enjoy any future success the program would have under Snyder. It's harder to gauge the approval level of Alden since he's not as hot a topic as Snyder, but there's plenty of fans that want him gone(just check TigerBoard). I wasn't around for the scandal, and I fully understand his F-ball and B-ball hirings have been subpar. I will give him this though. Just about every other sport is doing very well. Volleyball went to the Elite 8, Baseball was a couple outs away from the CWS, Softball, Gymnastics, Wrestling, and Women's hoops are all Top 25. I don't know how many of those guys he hired, but Mizzou has had a good bit of success in the non-revenue sports.

 

EDIT: Yes, I did know you lived in the St. Louis area for a while.

[illiniguy]

Duke has two mcdaas coming off of the bench when Melchionni starts. The rest of America should have so many depth issues. ](*,) Just like last year with 5 mcdaas Coach K was doing his best job yet. The love Duke gets is just ridiculous. Poor Duke, I wonder what other coaches could do with Demarcus Nelson and Josh McRoberts coming off of their benches? I sure wish Bruce Weber could find out.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

Duke has two mcdaas coming off of the bench when Melchionni starts. The rest of America should have so many depth issues. ](*,) Just like last year with 5 mcdaas Coach K was doing his best job yet. The love Duke gets is just ridiculous. Poor Duke, I wonder what other coaches could do with Demarcus Nelson and Josh McRoberts coming off of their benches? I sure wish Bruce Weber could find out.

 

So wait, I don't get it. You're blaming Duke for going out and getting good players?

[illiniguy]

Duke has two mcdaas coming off of the bench when Melchionni starts. The rest of America should have so many depth issues. ](*,) Just like last year with 5 mcdaas Coach K was doing his best job yet. The love Duke gets is just ridiculous. Poor Duke, I wonder what other coaches could do with Demarcus Nelson and Josh McRoberts coming off of their benches? I sure wish Bruce Weber could find out.

 

So wait, I don't get it. You're blaming Duke for going out and getting good players?

No thats fine, but I fault the logic of feeling sorry for them for not having any depth like many here do. Coach K has played this way since his last great team with magette, brand, and avery. Thats why I think he can't get as far as he used to and will never beat uconn again. uconn plays like 10 guys who are all huge and can all ball.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Duke has two mcdaas coming off of the bench when Melchionni starts. The rest of America should have so many depth issues. ](*,) Just like last year with 5 mcdaas Coach K was doing his best job yet. The love Duke gets is just ridiculous. Poor Duke, I wonder what other coaches could do with Demarcus Nelson and Josh McRoberts coming off of their benches? I sure wish Bruce Weber could find out.

 

So wait, I don't get it. You're blaming Duke for going out and getting good players?

No thats fine, but I fault the logic of feeling sorry for them for not having any depth like many here do.

 

Who feels sorry for them? I think it's an indictment of Coach K. He can get all those McD AA guys, but he can't find anyone that can backup Williams for how many years? Maybe he has some philosophical reason for wanting to play a short bench, but anytime Williams gets in foul trouble they're in a huge bind.

[illiniguy]

Duke has two mcdaas coming off of the bench when Melchionni starts. The rest of America should have so many depth issues. ](*,) Just like last year with 5 mcdaas Coach K was doing his best job yet. The love Duke gets is just ridiculous. Poor Duke, I wonder what other coaches could do with Demarcus Nelson and Josh McRoberts coming off of their benches? I sure wish Bruce Weber could find out.

 

So wait, I don't get it. You're blaming Duke for going out and getting good players?

No thats fine, but I fault the logic of feeling sorry for them for not having any depth like many here do.

 

Who feels sorry for them? I think it's an indictment of Coach K. He can get all those McD AA guys, but he can't find anyone that can backup Williams for how many years? Maybe he has some philosophical reason for wanting to play a short bench, but anytime Williams gets in foul trouble they're in a huge bind.

Everyone was going on about how they would be good if they had depth, K doesn't want depth. He did the same thing with Boozer. Casey Sanders was a mcdaa he could have helped some. Now Michael Thompson could have played for them, but he didn't produce in year 1 so he was gone. Hell just this year he has all those wings, then he gets Gerald Henderson and Jon Scheyer. So he goes after another shooting guard the next year in eric gordon, misses him so he takes the number 2 shooting guard. Why? Why not go get a couple of bigs and have some depth? I really question his thinking.

[Mark_R]

Michael Thompson is so awful. I can't believe you'd bring him up to strengthen your argument. He sucked at NORTHWESTERN. What makes you think he'd be of any use at Duke?

[illiniguy]

Michael Thompson is so awful. I can't believe you'd bring him up to strengthen your argument. He sucked at NORTHWESTERN. What makes you think he'd be of any use at Duke?

He sucked with crap around him. You don't think he could have given Duke maybe 5 minutes a game with all of that talent around him just to spell Shelden? I know he isn;t ideal, but how many teams can back up all five spots with stars?

[SouthSideRyan]

Michael Thompson SUCKED at Providence. (his high school) He was shut down by a bunch of slow white boys from the south side. (my high school) He had no right getting a scholly to Duke.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

I see what you're saying. Duke always does have great players on their bench that never even see the court. But that's not Duke's fault. It actually is kind of the kids' fault. They're the ones that pick the school they go to, and they're the ones that know how Coach K handles subs.

 

But even if he only uses 7 guys from his roster every year, he has to be doing something right because Duke ALWAYS fields a highly competitive team.

[CuseCubFan69]

Syracuse vs UConn.....Mac is hurt and he struggles big time against them when he is healthy, this is going to be a very difficult game.

[Mizzou]

Three years ago beating Nebraska in football shouldn't have gotten to the point where when you win you tear down the goal-posts.

 

Oh yes it should have. We hadn't beaten Nebraska in 25 years prior to that game; they were ranked #10 (I think) in the nation at the time; we hadn't defeated a ranked team in 20 something years; and we didn't just beat Nebraska, we kicked the crap out of them. If ever there was a time to tear down goalposts, that was it.

 

And I didn't take any real offense to your original comments about Mizzou fans. It's just friendly bashing of teams you don't like. I do it all the time. The timing could have been better, I guess, but it's not like a Cards fan making fun of a Cubs fan after Game 7 of the 2003 NLCS or anything.

[Jon]

Michael Thompson is so awful. I can't believe you'd bring him up to strengthen your argument. He sucked at NORTHWESTERN. What makes you think he'd be of any use at Duke?

He sucked with crap around him. You don't think he could have given Duke maybe 5 minutes a game with all of that talent around him just to spell Shelden? I know he isn;t ideal, but how many teams can back up all five spots with stars?

No, Thompson was awful. Granted he played in a limited number of games because of injury, but they altered the offense to include him and he couldn't do ANYTHING in one-on-one situations in the low post against bad/mediocre centers. He has no way of scoring once he gets the ball down low. Same if he gets it at the free throw line.

 

If Thompson had lived up to his hype, he would have pushed Northwestern over the top. One could argue that the Princeton offense wasn't a good fit for him, but it had nothing to do with his teammates.

[Knightlife_in_Lubbock]

Mizzou had their shots at Texas and didn't make the open shots. Can't say I was expecting a win, but at least they didn't humiliate themselves. Makes the two road games against fellow bottom feeders Texas Tech and Baylor huge games.

 

Who you callin' a bottom feeder? :twisted:

[da bears]

Three years ago beating Nebraska in football shouldn't have gotten to the point where when you win you tear down the goal-posts.

 

Oh yes it should have. We hadn't beaten Nebraska in 25 years prior to that game; they were ranked #10 (I think) in the nation at the time; we hadn't defeated a ranked team in 20 something years; and we didn't just beat Nebraska, we kicked the crap out of them. If ever there was a time to tear down goalposts, that was it.

 

And I didn't take any real offense to your original comments about Mizzou fans. It's just friendly bashing of teams you don't like. I do it all the time. The timing could have been better, I guess, but it's not like a Cards fan making fun of a Cubs fan after Game 7 of the 2003 NLCS or anything.

 

Agreed with the goalpost comment. I was a senior in high school, so I didn't get to take part in it, but if a situation like that, where Nebraska was highly ranked, national tv, and the fact that Mizzou hadn't beaten them in 25 years, isn't right to tear the goalposts down, I don't know when is.

 

I would hope Alden would fire Snyder after the performance of this years team. The team has totally quit on them, and the fans quit on the team two years ago. Alden is a difficult situatioBn because of the revenue hes brought to Mizzou. Most fans I know do not like Alden, but they hate Quinny boy even more. I agree with the comment that Mizzou fans expectations are pretty ridiculous sometimes. I saw predictions for Mizzou to beat Texas in football. Just crazy. By the way Dalgreen, why do you hate Mizzou so much?

[dalgreen]

Three years ago beating Nebraska in football shouldn't have gotten to the point where when you win you tear down the goal-posts.

 

Oh yes it should have. We hadn't beaten Nebraska in 25 years prior to that game; they were ranked #10 (I think) in the nation at the time; we hadn't defeated a ranked team in 20 something years; and we didn't just beat Nebraska, we kicked the crap out of them. If ever there was a time to tear down goalposts, that was it.

 

And I didn't take any real offense to your original comments about Mizzou fans. It's just friendly bashing of teams you don't like. I do it all the time. The timing could have been better, I guess, but it's not like a Cards fan making fun of a Cubs fan after Game 7 of the 2003 NLCS or anything.

 

I apologize, I don't think I made myself clear with my point. My point was when Pinkel was hired after Larry Smith many, many fans and media (at least in St. Louis) swore up and down that Mizzou would become a prominent force in the Big 12 within two years. Well, four years (or is it more) after Pinkel's hire, the expectations must have lowered because beating an unranked Nebraska team at home meant tearing down the goalposts. I think Mizzou was even predicted to finish higher than Nebraska in the Big 12 North. My main point is neither coach (Snyder and Pinkel) have gotten their programs where people thought they would several years ago, which means to me either fans and media had too high of expectations for these coaches or either the coaches aren't doing a very good job.

[Andy]

Look out.

 

NOTRE DAME WINS A BIG EAST GAME.

 

Unbelievable. Rather easily too. 90-63 over Rutgers. Hopefully, this plus a severely weak schedule the rest of the way (only @UConn looks extremely tough of the remaining games) equals to a Big East tournament berth.

[stitchface]

misery loves company - Florida goes down to USC at home.