Cubs still need a starting pitcher

[b_wiggy_66]

Regardless of who we get offensively, as we saw last year pitching wins championships. That being said I think we definitely need another starting pitcher. I would like Washburn or Weaver. Both are inning eaters who also put up good numbers, this would help the rest of the rotation and with Washburn give us a lefty. I also dont think Paul Byrd would be a bad option either to be our fifth man. I dont see us pursuing Millwood or Burnett even though it has been reported that we will. Another starter would be huge for this team I believe, especially someone who can eat innings.

 

Who would you prefer?

[Andy]

I would like Washburn. He's a decent lefty who doesn't walk very many (roughly 3 BB/9). He doesn't K too many people, but I think he could be had for relatively cheap compared to the other FA pitchers out there.

[GORDO]

How is Washburn's ground ball to flyball ratio? Would he be a good fit for Wrigley?

[mg420]

barring a trade, i think the cubs have enough sp. prior, z, wood, & maddux (assuming he's coming back-hopefully he's not) are locks. williams, rusch & hill can all compete for the #5 spot. even if wood gets hurt again, 1 of those 3 can step in. in the minors guys like pinto, nolasco & guzman could also get a shot this year. i hope hendry concentrates on getting a lead off hitter & filling the 2 of spots before he thinks about getting another starter.

[Flames24Rulz]

I would like Washburn. He's a decent lefty who doesn't walk very many (roughly 3 BB/9). He doesn't K too many people, but I think he could be had for relatively cheap compared to the other FA pitchers out there.

 

agreed. He'll be much cheaper than Burnett and Millwood.

[HoopsCubs]

barring a trade, i think the cubs have enough sp. prior, z, wood, & maddux (assuming he's coming back-hopefully he's not) are locks. williams, rusch & hill can all compete for the #5 spot. even if wood gets hurt again, 1 of those 3 can step in. in the minors guys like pinto, nolasco & guzman could also get a shot this year. i hope hendry concentrates on getting a lead off hitter & filling the 2 of spots before he thinks about getting another starter.

 

I disagree. Hendry has enough cash, and should have enough talent and creativity to get another good starting pitcher in addition to filling RF, CF, SS and a set-up guy.

 

Planning on having a healthy Wood ready for Opening Day is fool-hearty. If Kerry is ready, great, but based on his health record you can't plan on it. I see little risk in getting another pitcher - after the 2006 season the Cubs instantly free up $21M if Maddux and Wood leave.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

We have Rusch. What more could you want? 8)

[wilk]

I think Hendry truly is going to go after Burnett. I didn't think we'd get one of Millwood/Burnett but it appears there will be a serious offer. There was also talk that Burnett has told his good friend Dempster that he'd love to play for the Cubs and play for Dusty. Yes, play for Dusty! (I know that means we're going to hear "he just wants Dusty to be nonchalant in his party animals ways", etc. but the point remains.) The truth is that since Burnett's TJ surgery there has been no real issues. He finished in the top 3 in CG last year, threw 200 innings and only missed 1 start. In 2004 he came back from TJ and pitched as well as he did in 2002 but with the best K/BB of his career. He was shut down as a precautionary measure, they found no damage and he returned. Over the last two years, Millwood has had more health problems. Millwood himself has a pretty scarred history of shoulder and elbow problems. Back and groin problems last year as well. Over the last two years, Burnett has been the better pitcher. I'm pretty surprised so many people are against a push for Burnett if the resources are truly there.

[Mizzou]

If we get Burnett, our rotation would be flat out filthy.

 

Prior

Zambrano

Burnett

Wood

Maddux

 

That's sick.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I would not mind seeing the Cubs acquire one more pitcher, but as it stands, I wouldn't place it on the top of my priorities.

 

Unless one or more of these are traded or released, the Cubs have Wood, Prior, Zambrano, Maddux and Rusch for the rotation with Williams, Mitre, and Hill ready to fill in. Depending on how quickly Guzman rehabs, he may be available as well. One more starter would round out the rotation nicely, but I'd rather add Furcal and Giles than one of those and a starting pitcher.

[HoopsCubs]

I think Hendry truly is going to go after Burnett. I didn't think we'd get one of Millwood/Burnett but it appears there will be a serious offer. There was also talk that Burnett has told his good friend Dempster that he'd love to play for the Cubs and play for Dusty. Yes, play for Dusty! (I know that means we're going to hear "he just wants Dusty to be nonchalant in his party animals ways", etc. but the point remains.) The truth is that since Burnett's TJ surgery there has been no real issues. He finished in the top 3 in CG last year, threw 200 innings and only missed 1 start. In 2004 he came back from TJ and pitched as well as he did in 2002 but with the best K/BB of his career. He was shut down as a precautionary measure, they found no damage and he returned. Over the last two years, Millwood has had more health problems. Millwood himself has a pretty scarred history of shoulder and elbow problems. Back and groin problems last year as well. Over the last two years, Burnett has been the better pitcher. I'm pretty surprised so many people are against a push for Burnett if the resources are truly there.

 

I just don't think there is enough money to pay Burnett or Millwood if the Cubs sign Furcal and acquire a stud RF. But, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Hendry is inquiring about Paul Byrd or Esteban Loiaza.

Edited November 11, 2005 by HoopsCubs

[ManCrushOnNomar]

I'd be very happy with Byrd.

[craig]

I think the Cubs will add another starting pitcher. The question is whether he'll be excellent, another average guy, or a liability. Who, how, how good, and for how much?

 

The only guys I'm keen on as "excellent" are Burnett and Milwood, and they'll cost. Unlikely Hendry will offer the years it will take to get Burnett.

 

So, outside of Burnett, he'll likely get a guy who either is kinda average or who maybe projects to perhaps be better but no safe bet. If you get Jennings from Rockies, or Kip Wells from Pirates, or somebody like that, they mght turn out to be pretty solid. But they might also turn out to me no better, if as good, as williams or Guzman or Rusch. But if you've just traded for them, and they have a substantial contract, they'll start whether they excel or not.

 

Is relying on Z/Prior/Wood risky? Absolutely. Unfortunately short of obtaining Burnett, the cubs are basically going to have to play that risk and just hope for the best. Not like there are a couple of Zambrano's available at prices Cubs can afford.

 

But I see Hendry acquiring one rotation pitcher. Whether that be a FA veteran in the Washburn/Byrd type class, or a somewhat younger guy he acquires in trade, in the Wells/Jennings sort of class or somebody something like Matt Clement was when we got him. Somebody without a consistent record of excellence, but somebody with enough talent so that if he did improve some, he could pitch at <4 ERA.

 

I think that could work out well. That could put Williams and Rusch as 6th/7th starter types, available for injury replacement. I see Williams perhaps being a pretty effective reliever if he's not needed for rotation.

 

I see Mitre going in the eventual Pierre trade.

 

I'd shop Hill if I need to, for the outfield help or in the trade for the solid youngish pitcher who'd be given the rotation spot.

 

I'd prefer to keep Hill. I'd like to see Hill and Guzman spending the year proving and refining themselves, such that whichever looks better will be a convincing successor for Maddux in 2007. Hopefully the guy who doesn't succeed Maddux would still provide good depth insurance for 2007, along with Rusch and Williams (if not traded first) and Nolasco etc..

[don_kessinger_was_good]

I would not mind seeing the Cubs acquire one more pitcher, but as it stands, I wouldn't place it on the top of my priorities.

 

Unless one or more of these are traded or released, the Cubs have Wood, Prior, Zambrano, Maddux and Rusch for the rotation with Williams, Mitre, and Hill ready to fill in. Depending on how quickly Guzman rehabs, he may be available as well. One more starter would round out the rotation nicely, but I'd rather add Furcal and Giles than one of those and a starting pitcher.

 

Agreed, that's how I see it too. The priorities should be, in order:

 

1. Leadoff man at either SS or CF (or both)

2. Slugging, high OBP corner OF that can hit 3rd or 4th in the lineup, preferably with some speed and defense, preferably hits LH.

3. Solid defense, speedy, contact hitter at either SS or CF not filled in #1 above.

4. A dominant 8th inning setup man for the bullpen.

5. One quality, PH bat for the bench that hits for average and can hit the ball out of the ballpark.

6. A reliable, effective middle reliever for the 6th/7th inning area.

 

And then, after those priorities, would I put getting another starting pitcher. I wouldn't hate on obtaining Millwood or Burnett, but short of that, it just isn't worth the $$ and/or players in trade given more pressing priorities.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

1. Leadoff man at either SS or CF (or both)

2. Slugging, high OBP corner OF that can hit 3rd or 4th in the lineup, preferably with some speed and defense, preferably hits LH.

3. Solid defense, speedy, contact hitter at either SS or CF not filled in #1 above.

4. A dominant 8th inning setup man for the bullpen.

5. One quality, PH bat for the bench that hits for average and can hit the ball out of the ballpark.

6. A reliable, effective middle reliever for the 6th/7th inning area.

 

Geez, replying to my own post, but I should have given examples for each of my six points I think.

 

1. Sign FA Rafael Furcal for SS. I support this initiative completely.

2. Trade for Bobby Abreu. He's available. Because he's expensive, he's expendable. We can afford him. We have the talent to get him. We need a player exactly like him. Make it happen.

3. Trade for Juan Pierre for CF. I support this, but I won't cry if, after #1 is accomplished, we sign Kenny Lofton for CF instead. Or even better, trade for Coco Crisp. But unlike some, I like Pierre.

4. The MacDougal talk is disturbing, because we need to do better than that. Please use Todd Walker, in a 3-way trade if necessary, to get one of Cleveland or Minnesota's extra late inning men. Rafael Betancourt and Jesse Crain are the two I like the most. Given Minny's need for an OF with Jock Jones sure to leave and Torii Hunter perhaps on the block, they can use an OF, and definitely need the offense. How about Walker to Texas, Kevin Mench to Minnesota, and Jesse Crain to the Cubs??

5. Dare I say it, but no one seems to like poor Hee Seop Choi in LA anymore, his number one supporter is gone (Depodesta). We can bring him back as our primary LH bat off the bench, as well as backup to Lee at 1B and Murton in LF. It shouldn't take more than say, Fez and Geovanny Soto to get Hee Seop back.

6. If you want to acquire MacDougal for this, OK.

[craig]

kessinger, the notion that a pinch hitter is more important that solidifying the rotation seems kind of silly to me. Let's see, which would I rather compromise on?

 

For example, I have the choice on either tolerating Jose Macias as a primary pinch hitter, or John Koronka getting 15 starts. Which is more important, replacing Koronka or Macias?

 

Seems a no-brainer to me.

 

I don't strongly disagree with the emphasis of your post. However, I just don't think Hendry is that interested in Giles, and after Giles it's going to be hard to find a worthwhile LH middle-of-the-order RFer. Assuming you're not going to have great success in your priority #2, that will leave more monetary resources left for rotation.

 

Second, assuming you don't sign Giles, it almost follows that Hendry will likely trade for RF. Seems to me that to whatever degree Hendry trades to strengthen the team, that will probably weaken the pool of available young pitchers and thin out the pitching depth in the system. Which could *increase* the priority on acquiring another starting pitcher. If you don't add any starters, can you afford to trade Hill and Mitre and Nolasco? But if you do pick up another starting pitcher, perhaps that enable you do deal Mitre in a PIerre pickup, or include Hill in a trade for Dunn or somebody for RF.

 

In other words, acquiring a promising but somewhat established youngish starter might not only benefit the rotation imediately, but it also might facilitate the acquisition of an outfielder who can hit.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Craig, I understand your points, but I'm trying to weigh needs and priorities versus alternatives. Even IF both Jerome Williams and Rich Hill were used as trade pieces to fill holes elsewhere, you still have a five-man rotation in place with Glendon Rusch as the #5 guy--and I don't think the Cubs paid him $3MM to sit in the bullpen all year as an insurance policy. I don't like that choice, but it is what is, the GM made it.

 

If the health our primary #1 to #4 guys falters, that is where your new starter fits in. But honestly--at what point do we have to expect that some of our highly touted minor league pitching, at some point, at least ONE of these guys needs to be able to step in the breach and give us something, right? Otherwise, what's the point? The Cubs have been stockpiling starting pitching for years now in the minor leagues, it's time to set some expectations that one of these guys is going to need to be able and help us if Wood or someone else can't go.

 

If both Jerome and Hill are traded, Iowa's opening day rotation will likely look like Angel Guzman, Ricky Nolasco, Renyel Pinto, JK Ryu, and Sergio Mitre. With Sean Marshall, Carlos Marmol and Sean Gallagher in the wings at AA. And the enigma of Bobby Brownlie in Iowa's bullpen. Surely, if the need arose, ONE of these guys could step in until Hendry was able to engineer an intra-season trade, right?

[rawaction]

Weaver's a sleeper. Pick him up on a Millwood like, 1-year make good deal. I don't think he's gonna be highly sought after because of his agent, and the contract he didn't live up to that is just ending.

[Jehrico]

Weaver's a sleeper. Pick him up on a Millwood like, 1-year make good deal. I don't think he's gonna be highly sought after because of his agent, and the contract he didn't live up to that is just ending.

 

I agree. Weaver strikes me as the type that just might flourish under Rothschild. Call it a hunch, I dunno, but I'd love to see Hendry go after him.

[Neuby]

weavers is a true sleeper I think he can still be a great starter somewhere down the road but I doubt in this free agent market with teams having money to spend he gets a one year deal.

[craig]

..Even IF both Jerome Williams and Rich Hill were used as trade pieces to fill holes elsewhere, you still have a five-man rotation in place with Glendon Rusch as the #5 guy--and I don't think the Cubs paid him $3MM to sit in the bullpen all year as an insurance policy. I don't like that choice, but it is what is, the GM made it.

 

...

If both Jerome and Hill are traded, Iowa's opening day rotation will likely look like Angel Guzman, Ricky Nolasco, Renyel Pinto, JK Ryu, and Sergio Mitre. With Sean Marshall, Carlos Marmol and Sean Gallagher in the wings at AA. And the enigma of Bobby Brownlie in Iowa's bullpen. Surely, if the need arose, ONE of these guys could step in until Hendry was able to engineer an intra-season trade, right?

 

1. I don't either expect or want Rusch to be intended in the rotation. If one or two of the front five get hurt for a while, he's OK as a backup. I think you want to pick up another guy, specifically so that Rusch can be used as a swing/backup, but not an intended even-if-everybody-else-is-healthy starter.

 

2. If the need arose, no I would *not* want to be using Pinto or Nolasco or Ryu in the Cub rotation. They have yet to show they can handle AAA; it's premature to assume they're ready to start for a big-league playoff team. Their opportunity will come in time, but planning on them as your pitcher-insurance right now isn't right. That's what Hendry signed Rusch for, to be the insurance reserve. If not traded Williams could serve that same role.

 

With their $100+ payroll Hendry has enough dough to pay some key insurance guys $2.5-3. That's why he signed Neifi, that's why he signed Rusch. But neither of those guys are intended to start. They need a starting pitcher in front of Rusch, just like they need a starting middle infielder in front of Neifi.