How good is Felix Pie?

[Jehrico]

Actually, Corey didn't focus on baseball till his senior year in HS, the year before the Cubs drafted him, so it's not like he had such a big advantage on Felix. Before that, I believe he spent more time focusing on his WR skills playing football.

 

I was aware that he spend some time focusing more on football, and didn't primarily dedicate himself to baseball until close to the end of high school, but, correct me if I'm wrong, he still played in little league and other various organized leagues as a kid growing up, didn't he? Most kids I grew up with that concentrated more on Football still played baseball because football isn't year-round. He just didn't make baseball his first priority until later, unless I'm mistaken. That, IMO, would give him a big jump over where Pie was coming from.

[b_wiggy_66]

I agree he has a ton of potential, but we need to win NOW I'm sick of waiting. He also had a really bad ankle injury that no one really talks about. If that lingers it could really stunt his progression.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Actually, Corey didn't focus on baseball till his senior year in HS, the year before the Cubs drafted him, so it's not like he had such a big advantage on Felix. Before that, I believe he spent more time focusing on his WR skills playing football.

 

I was aware that he spend some time focusing more on football, and didn't primarily dedicate himself to baseball until close to the end of high school, but, correct me if I'm wrong, he still played in little league and other various organized leagues as a kid growing up, didn't he? Most kids I grew up with that concentrated more on Football still played baseball because football isn't year-round. He just didn't make baseball his first priority until later, unless I'm mistaken. That, IMO, would give him a big jump over where Pie was coming from.

 

I'm sure Corey did that, my point is he didn't get proper coaching and put in proper focus till his senior year. Thus, while not as raw as Felix, he's more raw than many first round draft picks.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Hey Raisin,

Your avatar is really creeping me out. Any chance you can change it??? :D

 

Only if you tell me who is in your avatar.

[RyCubsFan]

Don’t take my word for that Pie is going to be a star. Take Bobby Dickerson’s word for it. Dickerson was Pie’s manager this year in Double A:

 

On Pie’s Attitude:

Everybody who plays the game wants to win, but he thrives on it," Dickerson said. "A lot of players go 0-for-4, their team wins and there's not really any jubilation. He's the type of guy that he goes 0-for-4, the team wins and he's happy. I remember one time this year we had won six in a row. He's walking off the field going, 'My team! My team! My team is great!' He just enjoys being part of something special, and it [becomes contagious] around him."

 

On Pie’s Defense:

"We were playing Tennessee, which is the Diamondbacks organization," Dickerson said. "They had some rovers there and some coaches I know. He took away four potential doubles that night, going way over to the gaps and back to the wall. It was an amazing game. The next day those guys were asking me how he could get to those balls. Well, there was a fifth one in the game he had a shot to get, went way over to right field and almost got, and when he came back to the dugout he was really, genuinely mad that he didn't get it. Most guys would think they gave it a good try, what the heck? But he was mad. He really takes pride in himself and in his defense."

 

On Pie’s Power Potential:

Dickerson said Pie has enough power to be a 30-homer hitter but swings for homers only when the situation dictates. Dickerson cited a game-winning, 12th-inning home run when Pie called his shot in the dugout. The West Tenn manager also gushed about Pie's fielding in center.

 

On his Ability to Win:

He's an exciting player, a really exciting player," said West Tenn manager Bobby Dickerson, who served as a coach in the World team's 4-0 victory over prospects from the United States. "He loves to win. That's the biggest thing I've seen. He really enjoys winning ballgames, and he always wins. Every team he's been on has made the playoffs and three won championships."

 

And, of course, the DiamondJaxx went to the championship this year. I believe that they would have won it had Pie been able to play.

 

I repeat that Pie is going to be a star. Plus, he's a fun-loving, exciting young man. He's exactly the kind of player that wee all love to root for. He plays with heart, effort, and joy.

 

So enough with the Pie for Pierre suggestions. It would be nothing short than a collossal mistake to make such a move. And while I am all for targetting Dunn or Abreu, I would do everything I could to get one of them without trading Felix.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

What has he accomplished so far?

 

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG

59 240 41 73 17 5 11 25 133 16 53 13 9 .349 .554 .304

 

 

Besides the Home Runs nothing there overwhelms me. He was on pace to strike out over 100 times in AA!!! No speed guy should ever have numbers that high.

 

His stolen bases arent real high and he got caught stealing almost as much as he made it.

 

I see the next coming of Corey Patterson!!!!

 

Let me repeat what others have said, he's 20 years old. He was young for his league. He's already been selected to play in the Future's Game twice!

 

That being said, I have no problem trading Pie for the right player. Pierre, however, isn't that player. Pierre would be a one year rental before you'd have to pony up the dough in competition with 29 other teams.

 

Pie for Dunn? Yes. Pie for Vlad? Yes. Pie for Manny Ramirez? Yes. Pie for Teixeria? If Tex will move back to the outfield, yes. Pie for Wilkerson? I'd consider it if the Expos gave something back.

 

Pie for Pierre? Hell no!

[ManCrushOnNomar]

Don’t take my word for that Pie is going to be a star. Take Bobby Dickerson’s word for it. Dickerson was Pie’s manager this year in Double A:

 

On Pie’s Attitude:

Everybody who plays the game wants to win, but he thrives on it," Dickerson said. "A lot of players go 0-for-4, their team wins and there's not really any jubilation. He's the type of guy that he goes 0-for-4, the team wins and he's happy. I remember one time this year we had won six in a row. He's walking off the field going, 'My team! My team! My team is great!' He just enjoys being part of something special, and it [becomes contagious] around him."

 

On Pie’s Defense:

"We were playing Tennessee, which is the Diamondbacks organization," Dickerson said. "They had some rovers there and some coaches I know. He took away four potential doubles that night, going way over to the gaps and back to the wall. It was an amazing game. The next day those guys were asking me how he could get to those balls. Well, there was a fifth one in the game he had a shot to get, went way over to right field and almost got, and when he came back to the dugout he was really, genuinely mad that he didn't get it. Most guys would think they gave it a good try, what the heck? But he was mad. He really takes pride in himself and in his defense."

 

On Pie’s Power Potential:

Dickerson said Pie has enough power to be a 30-homer hitter but swings for homers only when the situation dictates. Dickerson cited a game-winning, 12th-inning home run when Pie called his shot in the dugout. The West Tenn manager also gushed about Pie's fielding in center.

 

On his Ability to Win:

He's an exciting player, a really exciting player," said West Tenn manager Bobby Dickerson, who served as a coach in the World team's 4-0 victory over prospects from the United States. "He loves to win. That's the biggest thing I've seen. He really enjoys winning ballgames, and he always wins. Every team he's been on has made the playoffs and three won championships."

 

And, of course, the DiamondJaxx went to the championship this year. I believe that they would have won it had Pie been able to play.

 

I repeat that Pie is going to be a star. Plus, he's a fun-loving, exciting young man. He's exactly the kind of player that wee all love to root for. He plays with heart, effort, and joy.

 

So enough with the Pie for Pierre suggestions. It would be nothing short than a collossal mistake to make such a move. And while I am all for targetting Dunn or Abreu, I would do everything I could to get one of them without trading Felix.

Very well put. I couldn't agree with you more.

 

Do you think he really called his shot?

[Post Count Padder]

I think what will tell us all is what he can do at AAA. If he puts up impressive numbers, he would get the chance to prove how good he is at the major league level. I think we should see what he does over the next season or 2 before we start sayin how overrated he is. LIKE BbB said, he's only 20. He's got a lot of time left.

[RyCubsFan]

I agree he has a ton of potential, but we need to win NOW I'm sick of waiting. He also had a really bad ankle injury that no one really talks about. If that lingers it could really stunt his progression.

 

Impatience is not a reason to make a mistake so large as to trade away Pie for the likes of a Juan Pierre. Such shortsightedness would indicate to me that the Cubs are decades away from winning the world series. It would show that we do not have the management capable of putting together a contender. Thankfully I'm confident that Jim Hendry would never be so foolish.

 

As for the ankle injury...no one talks about it because it really wasn't all that serious. He didn't break it. Pie will be fine this year.

 

I too am impatient...we all are! But Pie is not far off at all. Make trades to try to win now, but keep Pie out of them.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Don’t take my word for that Pie is going to be a star. Take Bobby Dickerson’s word for it. Dickerson was Pie’s manager this year in Double A:

 

On Pie’s Attitude:

Everybody who plays the game wants to win, but he thrives on it," Dickerson said. "A lot of players go 0-for-4, their team wins and there's not really any jubilation. He's the type of guy that he goes 0-for-4, the team wins and he's happy. I remember one time this year we had won six in a row. He's walking off the field going, 'My team! My team! My team is great!' He just enjoys being part of something special, and it [becomes contagious] around him."

 

On Pie’s Defense:

"We were playing Tennessee, which is the Diamondbacks organization," Dickerson said. "They had some rovers there and some coaches I know. He took away four potential doubles that night, going way over to the gaps and back to the wall. It was an amazing game. The next day those guys were asking me how he could get to those balls. Well, there was a fifth one in the game he had a shot to get, went way over to right field and almost got, and when he came back to the dugout he was really, genuinely mad that he didn't get it. Most guys would think they gave it a good try, what the heck? But he was mad. He really takes pride in himself and in his defense."

 

On Pie’s Power Potential:

Dickerson said Pie has enough power to be a 30-homer hitter but swings for homers only when the situation dictates. Dickerson cited a game-winning, 12th-inning home run when Pie called his shot in the dugout. The West Tenn manager also gushed about Pie's fielding in center.

 

On his Ability to Win:

He's an exciting player, a really exciting player," said West Tenn manager Bobby Dickerson, who served as a coach in the World team's 4-0 victory over prospects from the United States. "He loves to win. That's the biggest thing I've seen. He really enjoys winning ballgames, and he always wins. Every team he's been on has made the playoffs and three won championships."

 

And, of course, the DiamondJaxx went to the championship this year. I believe that they would have won it had Pie been able to play.

 

I repeat that Pie is going to be a star. Plus, he's a fun-loving, exciting young man. He's exactly the kind of player that wee all love to root for. He plays with heart, effort, and joy.

 

So enough with the Pie for Pierre suggestions. It would be nothing short than a collossal mistake to make such a move. And while I am all for targetting Dunn or Abreu, I would do everything I could to get one of them without trading Felix.

 

Don't forget that Mesa, Boise, Lansing and Daytona all won it all with Felix.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I agree he has a ton of potential, but we need to win NOW I'm sick of waiting. He also had a really bad ankle injury that no one really talks about. If that lingers it could really stunt his progression.

 

He's played quite a few games for Licey since the ankle injury and doesn't seem to have any lingering issues with the ankle.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I have no problem trading for Pierre, especially if the cost is Patterson and a rule V guy. On the other hand, trading Pie for Pierre makes no sense at all.

 

Why would I trade a 20 year old with Pie's ceiling for

 

Player A- 2005: 276 BA/ 326 OBP/ 354 SLG with 57 SB

2002-2004: 303/354/378 73% SB success rate.

 

Player A also will cost me 6.5 million dollars and be a FA at the end of 2006,

 

when I can sign Player B.

2005: 335/392/420 22 SB

2002-2004: 303/362/428 with a 79% SB success rate

 

for 2 million.

 

I pay less for player B and I still have my top prospect. Player B is older, but his numbers are better.

 

Neither player is known for great defense.

 

Why give up the prospect for player A?

[Andy]

I don't think Hendry will be trading Pie this off-season. And I hope I'm right.

[RyCubsFan]

I don't think Hendry will be trading Pie this off-season. And I hope I'm right.

 

I agree with you. Nothing about Hendry's past dealings gives me any indication that he would deal Pie this offseason. It would be very out of character for him. He has plenty of other trade chips to work with.

 

Pie reminds me of the position player version of Dontrelle Willis. Fun, hardworking, and damn good. Oh, how I wish we had Willis back...

[Outshined_One]

Pie is indeed going to be a special player some day. However, there are some misconceptions about him that I see going on in this thread...

 

1) While Pie has the tools and the potential to be a hitter anywhere in the order, his current ceiling is that of a middle of the order hitter. His ideal ceiling profiles him as being a 25-30 HR hitter with plenty of power to go around. You could potentially make him into a Pierre-like slappy leadoff hitter, but my concern for that is that it would be incorrectly using him because of his power potential, which was coming into play this season in AA.

 

Heck, Pie had one of the longest HRs in Pringle Park (The DJaxx's home field) history. Keep in mind they've have their share of power hitters down there over the years.

 

2) Pie's bone bruise is something that is a bit of a concern, but it's not something as serious as, say, tearing a muscle. The Cubs were incredibly cautious with him following the injury since they didn't want to rush him back too soon. I think part of the reason why he's been having some trouble in winter ball is because there's rust he has to shake off from missing that amount of playing time.

 

3) Pie was not ready for CF this season and everyone knew it. Problem is, Jim Hendry was trying to pull rabbits out of his hat (it worked with Murton) because the team was struggling and stagnant. While I think Pie could have made a good impression on the team and might have had some success, I don't want Dusty Baker and his band of merry men anywhere near him.

 

4) The Southern League (AA) is one of the best pitcher's leagues out there. The Pacific Coat League (AAA), on the other hand, is renowned for its band boxes and hitters' parks. Players do have to adjust to the more advanced pitching, but making that leap is not as hard as, say, from the Midwest League to the Florida State League. In other words, I'm not overly concerned with Pie going to AAA.

 

Now, in my honest opinion, it would behoove the Cubs to have Pie repeat AA to shake off any remaining rust he might have and also to work on him work more specifically on things such as his strike zone discipline and baserunning. Von Joshua is one of the better hitting coaches in the Cubs' system. Pie would benefit from another go-round with him, especially considering he'd still be young for his league. I wouldn't say have Pie repeat AA all season, though. Something more along the lines of having him show he can torment opposing pitchers, then moving him up to AAA shortly thereafter would work well.

 

As for who I would trade Pie for, that list is not that long. Yeah, I know people want to WIN NOW NOW NOW NOW DANGIT, but the fact of the matter is that I think Pie could be a truly special player down the line for the Cubs. I don't want to ship him off to the Marlins for Juan Pierre, only to watch Pie come up with them and have him achieve huge success.

 

How do you feel about the Matt Clement/Alf trade involving Dontrelle Willis? Yeah, Willis was the only guy in that package who panned out for the Marlins (and was considered a throw-in at the time). Clement and Alfonseca were positive guys on the team. But in retrospect, would you have done that trade? Most likely not.

 

That's what a Pie for Pierre swap would be like, imo.

[Andy]

Let's keep Pie in the minors until Dusty is let go after next season (please let him go...), and then Dusty won't get a shot at screwing him up.

[CubsWin]

What has he accomplished so far?

 

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG

59 240 41 73 17 5 11 25 133 16 53 13 9 .349 .554 .304

 

 

Besides the Home Runs nothing there overwhelms me. He was on pace to strike out over 100 times in AA!!! No speed guy should ever have numbers that high.

 

His stolen bases arent real high and he got caught stealing almost as much as he made it.

 

I see the next coming of Corey Patterson!!!!

 

Let me repeat what others have said, he's 20 years old. He was young for his league. He's already been selected to play in the Future's Game twice!

 

That being said, I have no problem trading Pie for the right player. Pierre, however, isn't that player. Pierre would be a one year rental before you'd have to pony up the dough in competition with 29 other teams.

 

Pie for Dunn? Yes. Pie for Vlad? Yes. Pie for Manny Ramirez? Yes. Pie for Teixeria? If Tex will move back to the outfield, yes. Pie for Wilkerson? I'd consider it if the Expos gave something back.

 

Pie for Pierre? Hell no!

Clearly Pie for Pierre is a terrible idea. But I'm not sure I would do any of the other deals either. I hate to admit this, but I'm split on whether I'd give up on Pie to get a really great already established hitter. Here's why.

 

Everyone you listed, and even ones you didn't mention like Bobby Abreu have one or more of the following characteristics, their defense or speed isn't very good, they are past their prime or, as in the case of Wilkerson, they're a very good hitter but not a great one.

 

Pie has a good chance to be the complete package financially that none of those players currently are...young, cheap and great. He also has a good chance to be an all around player. He may never have the power or RBI ability of Manny Ramirez, but he will have great speed, a great arm, great defenisve ability, a great bat, an increasingly improving batter's eye due to a great work ethic and a great desire to win as a team and great enjoyment of playing the game making him a natural born leader. If he fulfills on his promise, not having Pie when he is 22-29 years old will really, really hurt.

 

On the other hand, getting a player like Abreu right now would give the Cubs a huge boost in their ability to win a World Series in the next couple of seasons.

 

Like I said, I'm torn and I don't know if I should be. Is it worth gambling and waiting on Pie's potential to miss out on a shot at the World Series now by trading him for someone like Abreu?

 

This is why I'm such a big fan of signing Giles, you can get Abreu like production, for the next couple of years at the plate anyway, without giving up a player like Pie.

[b_wiggy_66]

Good post. You make some really great points and hopefully he is not a bust.

[WrigleyField 22]

Pie is indeed going to be a special player some day. However, there are some misconceptions about him that I see going on in this thread...

 

1) While Pie has the tools and the potential to be a hitter anywhere in the order, his current ceiling is that of a middle of the order hitter. His ideal ceiling profiles him as being a 25-30 HR hitter with plenty of power to go around. You could potentially make him into a Pierre-like slappy leadoff hitter, but my concern for that is that it would be incorrectly using him because of his power potential, which was coming into play this season in AA.

 

Heck, Pie had one of the longest HRs in Pringle Park (The DJaxx's home field) history. Keep in mind they've have their share of power hitters down there over the years.

 

2) Pie's bone bruise is something that is a bit of a concern, but it's not something as serious as, say, tearing a muscle. The Cubs were incredibly cautious with him following the injury since they didn't want to rush him back too soon. I think part of the reason why he's been having some trouble in winter ball is because there's rust he has to shake off from missing that amount of playing time.

 

3) Pie was not ready for CF this season and everyone knew it. Problem is, Jim Hendry was trying to pull rabbits out of his hat (it worked with Murton) because the team was struggling and stagnant. While I think Pie could have made a good impression on the team and might have had some success, I don't want Dusty Baker and his band of merry men anywhere near him.

 

4) The Southern League (AA) is one of the best pitcher's leagues out there. The Pacific Coat League (AAA), on the other hand, is renowned for its band boxes and hitters' parks. Players do have to adjust to the more advanced pitching, but making that leap is not as hard as, say, from the Midwest League to the Florida State League. In other words, I'm not overly concerned with Pie going to AAA.

 

Now, in my honest opinion, it would behoove the Cubs to have Pie repeat AA to shake off any remaining rust he might have and also to work on him work more specifically on things such as his strike zone discipline and baserunning. Von Joshua is one of the better hitting coaches in the Cubs' system. Pie would benefit from another go-round with him, especially considering he'd still be young for his league. I wouldn't say have Pie repeat AA all season, though. Something more along the lines of having him show he can torment opposing pitchers, then moving him up to AAA shortly thereafter would work well.

 

As for who I would trade Pie for, that list is not that long. Yeah, I know people want to WIN NOW NOW NOW NOW DANGIT, but the fact of the matter is that I think Pie could be a truly special player down the line for the Cubs. I don't want to ship him off to the Marlins for Juan Pierre, only to watch Pie come up with them and have him achieve huge success.

 

How do you feel about the Matt Clement/Alf trade involving Dontrelle Willis? Yeah, Willis was the only guy in that package who panned out for the Marlins (and was considered a throw-in at the time). Clement and Alfonseca were positive guys on the team. But in retrospect, would you have done that trade? Most likely not.

 

That's what a Pie for Pierre swap would be like, imo.

 

I think it might be a good idea for him to shake off some rust in AA, but I don't know that you make that decision right away. See how he finishes up his winter season, see how he performs in Spring Training, and then evaluate it. A couple months should be enough to help him get some rust off or help strike zone recognition.

If he repeats AA, and puts up a BA around .300 again, I would feel very confident if he was able to rise his OBP to .370-.380 range. if he hits .300 with a .350 OBP again I would be worried.

[DivineBovine]

I can't say I've ever seen Pie play, and I'm excited about any top prospect in the Cubs organization, but I don't see how he can be labeled a future all star based on his minor league performance.

 

His stats show nothing spectacular. His average is decent, power is decent. Nothing is overwhelming. I'll take people's word on his defense and physical tools. He may well develop into an all-star, but it's impossible to tell. It's no gimme that he's even a major league starter. We all know about a highly touted Cubs CF prospect who's days as a starter might be done.

 

His K/BB ratio does bother me. Guys that K a lot and can't draw a lot of walks don't easily change that. I know he's young, but still. That's also why I love Murton. I've been conditioned to look warily on high K/ low BB guys with talent. The Cubs have had more than their share of high K's and low BB's.

[CuseCubFan69]

So it's decided then. Pie will be a star if he's traded but flop if he remains a Cub.

[CubsWin]

Good post. You make some really great points and hopefully he is not a bust.

Thank you.

 

I hope and pray the Cubs sign Brian Giles. I don't think it is very likely, but it would allow the Cubs to retain Pie and gamble on hitting the jackpot with him if/when he fulfills his potential.

[CubsWin]

So it's decided then. Pie will be a star if he's traded but flop if he remains a Cub.

Well, yeah. Duh. :wink:

[Andy]

So it's decided then. Pie will be a star if he's traded but flop if he remains a Cub.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[da bears]

There's another enormous difference between Pie and CPatt that other people are overlooking...CPatt grew up playing organized baseball. Pie never had ANY coaching, any instruction, NADA, until the Cubs noticed him and brought him into the organization. He's only had three years playing something more organized than stickball in the streets...despite the overal "rawness" of Pie, he's managed to have quite a bit of success at each level he's played in despite being about the youngest guy in each league he has stopped at. He's incredibly advanced despite his rawness and youth. Those of you trying to grade him on the same principles as any other 23 year old at AA are making a mistake.

 

Good post. I couldn't agree with you more.