The 2005-2006 Chicago Bulls Thread

[UMFan83]

I'm just going to only watch the first 45 minutes of each game. The last 3 usually suck

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I'm just going to only watch the first 45 minutes of each game. The last 3 usually suck

 

Just skip the 4th quarter.

[ChiCubsFan]

I'm just going to only watch the first 45 minutes of each game. The last 3 usually suck

 

Just skip the 4th quarter.

 

So much different than last year when it was skip the first 3 and watch the Ben Gorden show in the 4th...

[Andy]

Good News: Bulls win 111-100. Hinrich nearly picks up triple-double No. 2 of his career, putting up 30 points, 13 boards and 9 assists.

 

Bad News: Malik Allen and Chris Duhon are both injured inadvertently by teammates while trying to take charges. Allen's injury is especially unsettling as he was just developing into a semiconsistent 4 that the Bulls desperately need.

[Jon]

Good News: Bulls win 111-100. Hinrich nearly picks up triple-double No. 2 of his career, putting up 30 points, 13 boards and 9 assists.

 

Bad News: Malik Allen and Chris Duhon are both injured inadvertently by teammates while trying to take charges. Allen's injury is especially unsettling as he was just developing into a semiconsistent 4 that the Bulls desperately need.

So that's two head injuries for Duhon in as many days?

[UMFan83]

Good News: Bulls win 111-100. Hinrich nearly picks up triple-double No. 2 of his career, putting up 30 points, 13 boards and 9 assists.

 

Bad News: Malik Allen and Chris Duhon are both injured inadvertently by teammates while trying to take charges. Allen's injury is especially unsettling as he was just developing into a semiconsistent 4 that the Bulls desperately need.

So that's two head injuries for Duhon in as many days?

 

I think the second one was the first injury being reaggrivated

[Brian]

Yahoo says that Duhon might get fitted for a protective mask... that would be AWESOME!

[USSoccer]

Given the weak draft, wouldn't the Bulls be better off trying to use these 2 picks, and a couple players to try and trade for Garnett?

[1908]

Given the weak draft, wouldn't the Bulls be better off trying to use these 2 picks, and a couple players to try and trade for Garnett?

It depends on the two players. If the Bulls traded Gordon and Deng plus their two first rounders for Garnett, would the resulting team be any better? Or would it be a borderline playoff team with a superstar? Seems more like the latter to me. Ford's suggested trade of Deng and the two first rounders for Garnett appeals, though. Garnett-Chandler-Noch-Gordon-Hinrich -- yep, that would work.

[Magnetic Curses]

Given the weak draft, wouldn't the Bulls be better off trying to use these 2 picks, and a couple players to try and trade for Garnett?

It depends on the two players. If the Bulls traded Gordon and Deng plus their two first rounders for Garnett, would the resulting team be any better? Or would it be a borderline playoff team with a superstar? Seems more like the latter to me. Ford's suggested trade of Deng and the two first rounders for Garnett appeals, though. Garnett-Chandler-Noch-Gordon-Hinrich -- yep, that would work.

 

skiles would probably play songaila over garnett in 4th quarters, though.

[Mark_R]

Given the weak draft, wouldn't the Bulls be better off trying to use these 2 picks, and a couple players to try and trade for Garnett?

It depends on the two players. If the Bulls traded Gordon and Deng plus their two first rounders for Garnett, would the resulting team be any better? Or would it be a borderline playoff team with a superstar? Seems more like the latter to me. Ford's suggested trade of Deng and the two first rounders for Garnett appeals, though. Garnett-Chandler-Noch-Gordon-Hinrich -- yep, that would work.

 

skiles would probably play songaila over garnett in 4th quarters, though.

Sulley's quest against Skiles is laughable.

 

This team has the pieces and assets to make a run for a title in a few years.

[wolf stansson]

This team has the pieces and assets to make a run for a title in a few years.

Need the big man.

[Magnetic Curses]

Given the weak draft, wouldn't the Bulls be better off trying to use these 2 picks, and a couple players to try and trade for Garnett?

It depends on the two players. If the Bulls traded Gordon and Deng plus their two first rounders for Garnett, would the resulting team be any better? Or would it be a borderline playoff team with a superstar? Seems more like the latter to me. Ford's suggested trade of Deng and the two first rounders for Garnett appeals, though. Garnett-Chandler-Noch-Gordon-Hinrich -- yep, that would work.

 

skiles would probably play songaila over garnett in 4th quarters, though.

Sulley's quest against Skiles is laughable.

 

This team has the pieces and assets to make a run for a title in a few years.

 

i'll believe it when i actually see a skiles-led team make a title run.

[goonys evil twin]

Given the weak draft, wouldn't the Bulls be better off trying to use these 2 picks, and a couple players to try and trade for Garnett?

It depends on the two players. If the Bulls traded Gordon and Deng plus their two first rounders for Garnett, would the resulting team be any better? Or would it be a borderline playoff team with a superstar? Seems more like the latter to me. Ford's suggested trade of Deng and the two first rounders for Garnett appeals, though. Garnett-Chandler-Noch-Gordon-Hinrich -- yep, that would work.

 

skiles would probably play songaila over garnett in 4th quarters, though.

Sulley's quest against Skiles is laughable.

 

This team has the pieces and assets to make a run for a title in a few years.

 

i'll believe it when i actually see a skiles-led team make a title run.

 

Do NBA teams actually develop? I was always under the impression that you either win by drafting a great player and hope he develops into an elite within 3 years (doesn't look like any current Bull will come close to that), or you sign/trade for somebody else's superstar. Is there much of a history of sub .500 teams gradually getting better with the same group of players, without at least one of those players turning into a superstar, or trading for a superstar?

 

I can't imagine the Bulls ever going far with Skiles as the coach. He seems to be more interested in sending messages than winning. That's fine, actually it can be great to develop some guys, but usually you have to change the coach to then go to the next level.

[Soul]

Given the weak draft, wouldn't the Bulls be better off trying to use these 2 picks, and a couple players to try and trade for Garnett?

It depends on the two players. If the Bulls traded Gordon and Deng plus their two first rounders for Garnett, would the resulting team be any better? Or would it be a borderline playoff team with a superstar? Seems more like the latter to me. Ford's suggested trade of Deng and the two first rounders for Garnett appeals, though. Garnett-Chandler-Noch-Gordon-Hinrich -- yep, that would work.

 

skiles would probably play songaila over garnett in 4th quarters, though.

Sulley's quest against Skiles is laughable.

 

This team has the pieces and assets to make a run for a title in a few years.

 

i'll believe it when i actually see a skiles-led team make a title run.

 

Do NBA teams actually develop? I was always under the impression that you either win by drafting a great player and hope he develops into an elite within 3 years (doesn't look like any current Bull will come close to that), or you sign/trade for somebody else's superstar. Is there much of a history of sub .500 teams gradually getting better with the same group of players, without at least one of those players turning into a superstar, or trading for a superstar?

 

I can't imagine the Bulls ever going far with Skiles as the coach. He seems to be more interested in sending messages than winning. That's fine, actually it can be great to develop some guys, but usually you have to change the coach to then go to the next level.

 

Not saying Gordon would ever be like Mike, or even like Dwayne Wade. But there's exactly zero chance he will develop into any kind of a consistent impact player from the bench. And that's 100% on Skiles.

 

Now I hear rumors of Gordon being traded? Wonderful. Let's just throw away every player with potential because he won't kiss management's feet. 25 wins, heading nowhere. I hope nobody is wondering why.

[1908]

Do NBA teams actually develop? I was always under the impression that you either win by drafting a great player and hope he develops into an elite within 3 years (doesn't look like any current Bull will come close to that), or you sign/trade for somebody else's superstar. Is there much of a history of sub .500 teams gradually getting better with the same group of players, without at least one of those players turning into a superstar, or trading for a superstar?

Young talent develops in the NBA, both Deng and Gordon have All-Star potential, and your 3-year window is too narrow.

[goonys evil twin]

Do NBA teams actually develop? I was always under the impression that you either win by drafting a great player and hope he develops into an elite within 3 years (doesn't look like any current Bull will come close to that), or you sign/trade for somebody else's superstar. Is there much of a history of sub .500 teams gradually getting better with the same group of players, without at least one of those players turning into a superstar, or trading for a superstar?

Young talent develops in the NBA, both Deng and Gordon have All-Star potential, and your 3-year window is too narrow.

 

I understand that young talent develops. But my question is to teams develop from sub .500 to championship caliber solely on the development of that young talent? I don't follow it much, and I don't really know basketball, but it seems to me like you have to either draft somebody who becomes elite, or trade/sign somebody who is elite, to have a chance in the NBA. Even Detroit had to go out and get somebody else's superstar, didn't they?

[Andy]

Not saying Gordon would ever be like Mike, or even like Dwayne Wade. But there's exactly zero chance he will develop into any kind of a consistent impact player from the bench. And that's 100% on Skiles.

I don't know if you've been paying any attention, but Gordon's been starting since around the second or third week of the season.

[Andy]

Given the weak draft, wouldn't the Bulls be better off trying to use these 2 picks, and a couple players to try and trade for Garnett?

It depends on the two players. If the Bulls traded Gordon and Deng plus their two first rounders for Garnett, would the resulting team be any better? Or would it be a borderline playoff team with a superstar? Seems more like the latter to me. Ford's suggested trade of Deng and the two first rounders for Garnett appeals, though. Garnett-Chandler-Noch-Gordon-Hinrich -- yep, that would work.

 

skiles would probably play songaila over garnett in 4th quarters, though.

Sulley's quest against Skiles is laughable.

 

This team has the pieces and assets to make a run for a title in a few years.

 

i'll believe it when i actually see a skiles-led team make a title run.

 

Do NBA teams actually develop? I was always under the impression that you either win by drafting a great player and hope he develops into an elite within 3 years (doesn't look like any current Bull will come close to that), or you sign/trade for somebody else's superstar. Is there much of a history of sub .500 teams gradually getting better with the same group of players, without at least one of those players turning into a superstar, or trading for a superstar?

 

I can't imagine the Bulls ever going far with Skiles as the coach. He seems to be more interested in sending messages than winning. That's fine, actually it can be great to develop some guys, but usually you have to change the coach to then go to the next level.

I would say Ben Gordon's stretch of play over the last month or so would qualify him as a guy that could be an elite player next season. And Luol Deng is only 20 years old and probably won't develop quite as fast as most college draftees (remember how long it took Jermaine O'Neal to become a star?).

[goonys evil twin]

I would say Ben Gordon's stretch of play over the last month or so would qualify him as a guy that could be an elite player next season. And Luol Deng is only 20 years old and probably won't develop quite as fast as most college draftees (remember how long it took Jermaine O'Neal to become a star?).

 

Like I said, I don't know much about the game. If people think those guys can become elite, they should be solid in a couple years.

 

I just get the feeling they'll be run-of-mill like so many other "supposed to develop" players.

[1908]

But my question is to teams develop from sub .500 to championship caliber solely on the development of that young talent? I don't follow it much, and I don't really know basketball, but it seems to me like you have to either draft somebody who becomes elite, or trade/sign somebody who is elite, to have a chance in the NBA. Even Detroit had to go out and get somebody else's superstar, didn't they?

Like every professional sport, teams win with stars in the NBA. Off the top of my head, I can think of four different ways to acquire star players in the NBA: 1) draft and develop them 2) acquire young players from another team and develop them, 3) acquire them from another team, and 4) sign them as free agents. The Pistons were build using model 2 mostly.

 

I strongly suspect most championship caliber teams are build using a combination of these methods, and I also strongly suspect methods 1 and 2 have the highest success rate.

[goonys evil twin]

Off the top of my head, I can think of four different ways to acquire star players in the NBA: 1) draft and develop them 2) acquire young players from another team and develop them, 3) acquire them from another team, and 4) sign them as free agents. The Pistons were build using model 2 mostly.

 

Didn't Detroit trade for a star in Wallace, well after he was developed, to put them over the top from perennial eastern bridesmaid to championship team?

 

 

Anyway, I just think the Bulls chances depend on when they are able to find somebody else's superstar, because they don't seem to have one, or the ability to develop one (how many top 10 picks have they had since the dynasty broke up?).

[1908]

Off the top of my head, I can think of four different ways to acquire star players in the NBA: 1) draft and develop them 2) acquire young players from another team and develop them, 3) acquire them from another team, and 4) sign them as free agents. The Pistons were build using model 2 mostly.

 

Didn't Detroit trade for a star in Wallace, well after he was developed, to put them over the top from perennial eastern bridesmaid to championship team?

They also traded for and developed Billups, Ben Wallace, and Hamilton. Rasheed is a cog in that machine. Certainly not the lone superstar, if any of them even qualify as one.

 

Anyway, I just think the Bulls chances depend on when they are able to find somebody else's superstar, because they don't seem to have one, or the ability to develop one (how many top 10 picks have they had since the dynasty broke up?).

What they need to do is stop trading away young talented players like Elton Brand and Ron Artest before they've had the chance to develop into stars, and I think Paxson understands that.

[Andy]

Off the top of my head, I can think of four different ways to acquire star players in the NBA: 1) draft and develop them 2) acquire young players from another team and develop them, 3) acquire them from another team, and 4) sign them as free agents. The Pistons were build using model 2 mostly.

 

Didn't Detroit trade for a star in Wallace, well after he was developed, to put them over the top from perennial eastern bridesmaid to championship team?

 

 

Anyway, I just think the Bulls chances depend on when they are able to find somebody else's superstar, because they don't seem to have one, or the ability to develop one (how many top 10 picks have they had since the dynasty broke up?).

1999: Elton Brand (netted Tyson Chandler) They also picked Artest in the first round that year who was eventually moved along with Brad Miller in the Jalen Rose deal. Oops.

2000: Marcus Fizer, Jamal Crawford, Dalibor Bagaric all first-rounders. Three misses.

2001: Eddy Curry (got us Sweetney, Thomas and a slew of draft picks)

2002: Jay Williams (I'm still pissed off at how this played out)

2003: Kirk Hinrich

2004: Ben Gordon

 

The Bulls have picked well in all these drafts except for 2000. The problem has been what we did with those players, along with a huge stroke of bad luck with Williams, who would be better than Hinrich and possibly even Gordon had he had a chance to improve after his solid rookie season.

 

The fact remains the Bulls have the pieces. They have a good young core with Gordon, Hinrich, Deng, Nocioni and Chandler, and will have a top 5 pick in the 2006 draft along with our own, along with a bunch of cap space, and then are likely to have another top 5 pick in the 2007 draft, along with our own first-rounder and two second-rounders, the top 5 pick assuming the Knicks are awful again.

 

If Pax doesn't screw it up (and all indications from the last couple of drafts are that he won't), this team will be a perennial championship contender over the next 5-7 years.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Off the top of my head, I can think of four different ways to acquire star players in the NBA: 1) draft and develop them 2) acquire young players from another team and develop them, 3) acquire them from another team, and 4) sign them as free agents. The Pistons were build using model 2 mostly.

 

Didn't Detroit trade for a star in Wallace, well after he was developed, to put them over the top from perennial eastern bridesmaid to championship team?

 

 

Anyway, I just think the Bulls chances depend on when they are able to find somebody else's superstar, because they don't seem to have one, or the ability to develop one (how many top 10 picks have they had since the dynasty broke up?).

1999: Elton Brand (netted Tyson Chandler) They also picked Artest in the first round that year who was eventually moved along with Brad Miller in the Jalen Rose deal. Oops.

2000: Marcus Fizer, Jamal Crawford, Dalibor Bagaric all first-rounders. Three misses.

2001: Eddy Curry (got us Sweetney, Thomas and a slew of draft picks)

2002: Jay Williams (I'm still pissed off at how this played out)

2003: Kirk Hinrich

2004: Ben Gordon

 

Don't forget Luol Deng in 2004. And Bagaric wasn't a top-10 pick, he went 24th.

 

The Bulls have picked well in all these drafts except for 2000. The problem has been what we did with those players, along with a huge stroke of bad luck with Williams, who would be better than Hinrich and possibly even Gordon had he had a chance to improve after his solid rookie season.

 

The fact remains the Bulls have the pieces. They have a good young core with Gordon, Hinrich, Deng, Nocioni and Chandler, and will have a top 5 pick in the 2006 draft along with our own, along with a bunch of cap space, and then are likely to have another top 5 pick in the 2007 draft, along with our own first-rounder and two second-rounders, the top 5 pick assuming the Knicks are awful again.

 

If Pax doesn't screw it up (and all indications from the last couple of drafts are that he won't), this team will be a perennial championship contender over the next 5-7 years.

 

The Bulls don't get to keep their first rounder in 07, they have the option of swapping with the Knicks.