Leo Mazzone To Go To Baltimore

[Backtobanks]

We missed the opportunity to get the best pitching coach in the game. Sweet. This is going to be a disappointing offseason.

 

What opportunity?

 

Nobody had the opportunity to get Mazzone out of Atlanta except his lifelong friend. Quit blaming Hendry for options that aren't available.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

We missed the opportunity to get the best pitching coach in the game. Sweet. This is going to be a disappointing offseason.

 

What opportunity?

 

Nobody had the opportunity to get Mazzone out of Atlanta except his lifelong friend. Quit blaming Hendry for options that aren't available.

 

Exactly. Mazzone wasn't leaving Atlanta except to work with his friend in Baltimore. His statements now and in the past make that perfectly clear.

 

There are plenty of things to criticize Hendry on; this isn't one of them. It's ridiculous to even make the assertions here.

[CuseCubFan69]

Talks have hit a snag with Baltimore according to ESPNews, the Braves want a prospect for compensation.

[Jehrico]

For those saying Hendry didn't move fast enough, it's not like Mazzone took his time testing out the open market. From the time ATL gave other orgs permission to talk to him, it was only what, 48 hours or so before he agreed to go with Baltimore?

 

And talking with Steinbrenner gives him a value with which to negotiate before signing elsewhere.

 

Some of you are WAAAY to quick to fault Hendry. He's not perfect, but he's far from this bumbling idiot some of you are making him out to be.

[XZero771679666304]

We missed the opportunity to get the best pitching coach in the game. Sweet. This is going to be a disappointing offseason.

 

What opportunity?

 

Nobody had the opportunity to get Mazzone out of Atlanta except his lifelong friend. Quit blaming Hendry for options that aren't available.

 

Exactly. Mazzone wasn't leaving Atlanta except to work with his friend in Baltimore. His statements now and in the past make that perfectly clear.

 

There are plenty of things to criticize Hendry on; this isn't one of them. It's ridiculous to even make the assertions here.

 

What they said.

[katway]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5007138

 

Unbelievable how we couldn't get in on this. Just damn unbelievable

 

Yeah it would have been nice to see the CUbs at least try to get in on this but it would appear it wasn't just about money for Leo as he turned NY down. This is all purely my opinion but in addition I think it was either working with Perlozzo or staying put.

 

He grew up in Maryland and has wanted to work with Perlozzo, who remains his best friend from childhood, for a long time. I don't think we had any shot at getting him.

 

you don't have a shot if you won't even make a sales pitch to him (like NY did). i don't mind getting beaten out by other teams for players or coaches that hit the open market. that's the game. i do mind sitting on our arses waiting for a miracle to happen.

 

So, should Hendry have tried knowing Mazzone wasn't going to give a fair shot to anyone outside of Baltimore and risk ticking off our current pitching coach? NYY's pitching coach retired... so they weren't rocking the boat. Hendry can't be expected to rock the boat when he had a slim to none chance of landing Mazzone.

 

In addition, why would any decent pitching coach want to go to the Cubs when their manager is only signed for 1 more year? I'm not advocating we extend Baker (in fact, i'd hoped we would terminate him), but it is certainly a factor.

[RynoRules]

Swiped from BTF via the Cumberland Times in Cumberland, MD.

 

No way," he said. "My only other aspiration is to be Sam's pitching coach. After that, we'll be done."

 

The time for Perlozzo, who has interviewed for the Seattle Mariners job as well as the Orioles' position twice, to manage in the big leagues is drawing near, according to Mazzone.

 

"It's going to happen," he said. "There is no doubt in my mind or the minds of anybody in the big leagues. Sam is going to be a manager, and a (darn) good one at that. And like I said, I'll be his pitching coach, and after that? We'll be done."

 

So unless all of your arguments was that the Cubs should've hired Perlozzo as the manager in the past couple weeks, your anger is misplaced.

 

I don't think expecting Hendry to even inquire about his availability is too much to ask.

 

How do you know that he did not? Source?

 

I think criticizing Hendry for not going after Mazzone is patently unfair, misguided, and ridiculous.

[USSoccer]

How can it be said that Hendry "undervalues" marquee FA names? First of all we have no idea what really was offered to Beltran and Thome and others. Second, he was right wasn't he? I mean when the OF that signed last offseason got their deals, the concenus was that each of them was overpaid and we were glad we weren't stuck with Maggs or Drew at that kind of salary. Same went with Beltran getting over 100 million.

 

Hendry is cautious enough to not put the Cubs in a situation similar to the Sosa contract. Bravo to him for that.

 

There's a difference between overpaying for value, and overpaying for mediocrity. We overpaid for Burnitz, Macias and Perez. Yeah, Beltran got a crazy contract, and put up a subpar season, but that was in a pitcher's park, and who knows what he would have done at Wrigley. My point is, is that I'd rather get All star production and overpay, than overpay for mediocrity. When you look at the production you get per dollar spent, it's actually worse to pay $7m or whatever it is for Burnitz and get his production than it would have been to pay $14-16m for someone who'd be much more productive.

[USSoccer]

Swiped from BTF via the Cumberland Times in Cumberland, MD.

 

No way," he said. "My only other aspiration is to be Sam's pitching coach. After that, we'll be done."

 

The time for Perlozzo, who has interviewed for the Seattle Mariners job as well as the Orioles' position twice, to manage in the big leagues is drawing near, according to Mazzone.

 

"It's going to happen," he said. "There is no doubt in my mind or the minds of anybody in the big leagues. Sam is going to be a manager, and a (darn) good one at that. And like I said, I'll be his pitching coach, and after that? We'll be done."

 

So unless all of your arguments was that the Cubs should've hired Perlozzo as the manager in the past couple weeks, your anger is misplaced.

 

I don't think expecting Hendry to even inquire about his availability is too much to ask.

 

How do you know that he did not? Source?

 

I think criticizing Hendry for not going after Mazzone is patently unfair, misguided, and ridiculous.

 

Of course, I don't know he didn't, and I suspect that if he had, we'd have heard a rumor or rumbling from someone close to the team.

 

And again, I clarified my anger in a later post.

[CubsWin]

Jesus Christ. I hae no faith in hendry anymore.

 

Careful, don't let CubsWin see that.

Hey, I saw that! :lol:

 

I have no problem with people expressing that they have lost faith in anybody. If I happen to disagree, I'll present my reasons and a discussion will ensue or it won't. That's up to the other person. Some people take offense to having their opinion challenged or discussed. I fail to understand that. I thought that is what a fan sight was all about.

 

In this case, I certainly hope Hendry made a phone call to Mazzone's agent prior to resigning Rothschild, but it seems clear from all the reports that have come out since, that the reason why Mazzone wound up in Baltimore was because he is childhood friends with their new manager and had made a pact with him that if he ever became a manager, he would be his pitching coach. Mazzone also wanted to be paid what he is worth and the Braves weren't willing to do that. The only reason the Yankees got involved was to drive up the price for their AL East opponent, the Orioles.

 

So after all the dust has settled on this one, it looks like Hendry wouldn't have had a chance to get Mazzone anyway. But that doesn't mean that some fans can't put together a good argument for why they have lost faith in Hendry. Last season gave Cubs fans a lot of valid reasons for doubting his ability to put together a winning team.

 

Whether there are enough reasons to logically decide that Hendry is a bad GM would make a great debate. :wink:

[delroy lindo]

Burnitz signed for $4.5, not $7 M

 

And you're right, Beltran's #'s were really depressed by Shea, he'd have gone like .380/.500/.875 at Wrigley and definitely justified the $119 M/7 years. Good call.

[Geech]

Burnitz' option is for 7 million, though.

[delroy lindo]

For next season, correct.

[mhuber92211]

4.5 million for Burnitz in a market like last offseason and only have to commit to 1 season is actually a bargin in retrospect. Really he filled a position of need for the Cubs at the time. He was a LH power bat who played solid defense and had good character attributes. Yes his production was not one of a Beltran's (potentially) and a Drew (arguably not but that's a different debate). In all reality Burnitz should be marked under the "good acquisition" for Hendry not a bad one.

 

Out of curiosity, how did Burnitz fair against other NL (& ML) OF stats wise?

[USSoccer]

Burnitz signed for $4.5, not $7 M

 

And you're right, Beltran's #'s were really depressed by Shea, he'd have gone like .380/.500/.875 at Wrigley and definitely justified the $119 M/7 years. Good call.

 

Is that really necessary? Is that what I said? Yeah, you're right. I said Beltran would have hit 70 HR's and stopped Hurricane Katrina with his sheer force of will if he'd have signed here.

 

And geez, sorry if I got Burnitz's $5m contract mixed up with his option yeah for $7m that the club hasn't turned down yet. Man, I'm incompetent! Good thing I have you around to put me in my place.

Just for the record, this is what I actually wrote:

 

There's a difference between overpaying for value, and overpaying for mediocrity. We overpaid for Burnitz, Macias and Perez. Yeah, Beltran got a crazy contract, and put up a subpar season, but that was in a pitcher's park, and who knows what he would have done at Wrigley. My point is, is that I'd rather get All star production and overpay, than overpay for mediocrity. When you look at the production you get per dollar spent, it's actually worse to pay $7m or whatever it is for Burnitz and get his production than it would have been to pay $14-16m for someone who'd be much more productive.

 

 

So as you can see, I acknowledged Beltran's crazy contract, and didn't try and make a prediction on his performance. Not to mention that I was simply using him as one example for my point, which you ignored. Also, I qualified the Burnitz contract statement in that sentence.

 

Next time you want to put me in my place, bother to attempt to grasp what I'm writing before you do it. If you want to disagree with my point about overpaying for mediocrity, fine, knock yourself out. I'm a big boy, I can handle that. Don't make me sound like some dope who's still ticked about the Cubs not just signing everyone under the sun for $120m contracts. That wasn't my point.

[delroy lindo]

You qualified the statement by saing $7 M or whatever? Um, okay.

 

I just said his contract was $4.5 M. No need to get angry, that's what it was.

 

You used Beltran as your only example (why the hell should I fish for another example?), and you clearly implied his numbers would've been much better at Wrigley, in fact so much better that you would spend $14-16M/year on him rather than the $4.5 M the Cubs paid Burnitz. So you let me know how much Shea Stadium depressed Beltran's offense this past season. What would that .266/.330/.414 have looked like at Wrigley?

[USSoccer]

You qualified the statement by saing $7 M or whatever? Um, okay.

 

I just said his contract was $4.5 M. No need to get angry, that's what it was.

 

You used Beltran as your only example (why the hell should I fish for another example?), and you clearly implied his numbers would've been much better at Wrigley, in fact so much better that you would spend $14-16M/year on him rather than the $4.5 M the Cubs paid Burnitz. So you let me know how much Shea Stadium depressed Beltran's offense this past season. What would that .266/.330/.414 have looked like at Wrigley?

 

I think that one of the more accomplished statisticians here could calculate Beltran's park adjusted numbers. The best I could do was, in a neutral ballpark he puts up about a .790 OPS. So Beltran was a bad random example to use.

 

 

Look, I'm not trying to get angry, and I apologize if I'm coming off as ultra defensive. It's been a real, real bad couple days for me. The only points I was trying to make (and admittedly I did a bad job framing it) was that I'd rather the Cubs overpay good to great talent, than overpay or setlle for mediocre to bad talent.

 

As far as Mazzone goes, I tried to clarify my initial reaction by saying that I am concerned about another offseason of relative inactivity followed by settling for what's left on the market, rather than taking control of the situation and being intelligently aggressive. Am I jumping the gun by crying doom about this winter already? Maybe, but it unnerves me that Burnitz's option hasn't been declined yet, and Macias is on the team, still.

 

Delroy, I hope we're cool. After all, soccer fans have to stick together.

[frostwyrm]

4.5 million for Burnitz in a market like last offseason and only have to commit to 1 season is actually a bargin in retrospect. Really he filled a position of need for the Cubs at the time. He was a LH power bat who played solid defense and had good character attributes. Yes his production was not one of a Beltran's (potentially) and a Drew (arguably not but that's a different debate). In all reality Burnitz should be marked under the "good acquisition" for Hendry not a bad one.

 

Out of curiosity, how did Burnitz fair against other NL (& ML) OF stats wise?

 

Burnitz a good acquistion? I don't think you'll find too many here who agree with that. If we could have gotten him for $1M he might have been acceptable.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

We missed the opportunity to get the best pitching coach in the game. Sweet. This is going to be a disappointing offseason.

 

What opportunity?

 

Nobody had the opportunity to get Mazzone out of Atlanta except his lifelong friend. Quit blaming Hendry for options that aren't available.

 

Exactly. Mazzone wasn't leaving Atlanta except to work with his friend in Baltimore. His statements now and in the past make that perfectly clear.

 

There are plenty of things to criticize Hendry on; this isn't one of them. It's ridiculous to even make the assertions here.

 

we missed the opportunity to make a sales pitch (like the Yankees did). you never know what happens until you throw your hat in the ring.

 

It's ridiculous to assume we don't have a chance without taking one. It would have cost us nothing to try.

[SouthSideRyan]

We missed the opportunity to get the best pitching coach in the game. Sweet. This is going to be a disappointing offseason.

 

What opportunity?

 

Nobody had the opportunity to get Mazzone out of Atlanta except his lifelong friend. Quit blaming Hendry for options that aren't available.

 

Exactly. Mazzone wasn't leaving Atlanta except to work with his friend in Baltimore. His statements now and in the past make that perfectly clear.

 

There are plenty of things to criticize Hendry on; this isn't one of them. It's ridiculous to even make the assertions here.

 

we missed the opportunity to make a sales pitch (like the Yankees did). you never know what happens until you throw your hat in the ring.

 

It's ridiculous to assume we don't have a chance without taking one. It would have cost us nothing to try.

 

Well, we know what happened to the Yankees. They were rejected.

[katway]

We missed the opportunity to get the best pitching coach in the game. Sweet. This is going to be a disappointing offseason.

 

What opportunity?

 

Nobody had the opportunity to get Mazzone out of Atlanta except his lifelong friend. Quit blaming Hendry for options that aren't available.

 

Exactly. Mazzone wasn't leaving Atlanta except to work with his friend in Baltimore. His statements now and in the past make that perfectly clear.

 

There are plenty of things to criticize Hendry on; this isn't one of them. It's ridiculous to even make the assertions here.

 

we missed the opportunity to make a sales pitch (like the Yankees did). you never know what happens until you throw your hat in the ring.

 

It's ridiculous to assume we don't have a chance without taking one. It would have cost us nothing to try.

 

Wrong. We tick off Rothschild and, if he leaves, we have to find a pitching coach willing to take the position with a lame duck manager.

 

The yanks are in a completely different position since they do not have a pitching coach.

 

Hendry was wise to look before he leaped.

[delroy lindo]

You qualified the statement by saing $7 M or whatever? Um, okay.

 

I just said his contract was $4.5 M. No need to get angry, that's what it was.

 

You used Beltran as your only example (why the hell should I fish for another example?), and you clearly implied his numbers would've been much better at Wrigley, in fact so much better that you would spend $14-16M/year on him rather than the $4.5 M the Cubs paid Burnitz. So you let me know how much Shea Stadium depressed Beltran's offense this past season. What would that .266/.330/.414 have looked like at Wrigley?

 

I think that one of the more accomplished statisticians here could calculate Beltran's park adjusted numbers. The best I could do was, in a neutral ballpark he puts up about a .790 OPS. So Beltran was a bad random example to use.

 

 

Look, I'm not trying to get angry, and I apologize if I'm coming off as ultra defensive. It's been a real, real bad couple days for me. The only points I was trying to make (and admittedly I did a bad job framing it) was that I'd rather the Cubs overpay good to great talent, than overpay or setlle for mediocre to bad talent.

 

As far as Mazzone goes, I tried to clarify my initial reaction by saying that I am concerned about another offseason of relative inactivity followed by settling for what's left on the market, rather than taking control of the situation and being intelligently aggressive. Am I jumping the gun by crying doom about this winter already? Maybe, but it unnerves me that Burnitz's option hasn't been declined yet, and Macias is on the team, still.

 

Delroy, I hope we're cool. After all, soccer fans have to stick together.

 

Of course we're cool, we may have a difference of opinion, but it ends there. And gray skies will clear up, my man (although maybe not in regard to the Cubs).

[RynoRules]

We missed the opportunity to get the best pitching coach in the game. Sweet. This is going to be a disappointing offseason.

 

What opportunity?

 

Nobody had the opportunity to get Mazzone out of Atlanta except his lifelong friend. Quit blaming Hendry for options that aren't available.

 

Exactly. Mazzone wasn't leaving Atlanta except to work with his friend in Baltimore. His statements now and in the past make that perfectly clear.

 

There are plenty of things to criticize Hendry on; this isn't one of them. It's ridiculous to even make the assertions here.

 

we missed the opportunity to make a sales pitch (like the Yankees did). you never know what happens until you throw your hat in the ring.

 

It's ridiculous to assume we don't have a chance without taking one. It would have cost us nothing to try.

 

Wrong. We tick off Rothschild and, if he leaves, we have to find a pitching coach willing to take the position with a lame duck manager.

 

The yanks are in a completely different position since they do not have a pitching coach.

 

Hendry was wise to look before he leaped.

 

That's partially true - they may have a lame-duck manager themselves, and their environment is twice as toxic as the Cubs, at least at this point/

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

We missed the opportunity to get the best pitching coach in the game. Sweet. This is going to be a disappointing offseason.

 

What opportunity?

 

Nobody had the opportunity to get Mazzone out of Atlanta except his lifelong friend. Quit blaming Hendry for options that aren't available.

 

Exactly. Mazzone wasn't leaving Atlanta except to work with his friend in Baltimore. His statements now and in the past make that perfectly clear.

 

There are plenty of things to criticize Hendry on; this isn't one of them. It's ridiculous to even make the assertions here.

 

we missed the opportunity to make a sales pitch (like the Yankees did). you never know what happens until you throw your hat in the ring.

 

It's ridiculous to assume we don't have a chance without taking one. It would have cost us nothing to try.

 

Wrong. We tick off Rothschild and, if he leaves, we have to find a pitching coach willing to take the position with a lame duck manager.

 

The yanks are in a completely different position since they do not have a pitching coach.

 

Hendry was wise to look before he leaped.

 

Losing Rothschild would be a bad thing? LOL, I'd be happy to see any part of our coaching staff move on. We wouldn't have lost anything asking Mazzone, we might even have gained (by heaving Rothschild out the door).

[katway]

We missed the opportunity to get the best pitching coach in the game. Sweet. This is going to be a disappointing offseason.

 

What opportunity?

 

Nobody had the opportunity to get Mazzone out of Atlanta except his lifelong friend. Quit blaming Hendry for options that aren't available.

 

Exactly. Mazzone wasn't leaving Atlanta except to work with his friend in Baltimore. His statements now and in the past make that perfectly clear.

 

There are plenty of things to criticize Hendry on; this isn't one of them. It's ridiculous to even make the assertions here.

 

we missed the opportunity to make a sales pitch (like the Yankees did). you never know what happens until you throw your hat in the ring.

 

It's ridiculous to assume we don't have a chance without taking one. It would have cost us nothing to try.

 

Wrong. We tick off Rothschild and, if he leaves, we have to find a pitching coach willing to take the position with a lame duck manager.

 

The yanks are in a completely different position since they do not have a pitching coach.

 

Hendry was wise to look before he leaped.

 

Losing Rothschild would be a bad thing? LOL, I'd be happy to see any part of our coaching staff move on. We wouldn't have lost anything asking Mazzone, we might even have gained (by heaving Rothschild out the door).

 

I don't think Rothschild leaving would be bad except for the fact that we have slim to no chance of getting a good pitching coach when we have a lame duck manager. Perhaps, we could have moved Dick Pole into the position if Rothschild left. But, the way I see it, you don't openly go recruiting a guy unless the position is vacant.

 

If I'm Mazzone, I wouldn't even consider an organization that would be willing to openly recruit a coach when the position isn't vacant. It's bad form and I would be wondering if the organization would treat me just as poorly down the road.

 

The Yanks are in a completely different situation. The position is vacant and their manager has 2 years on his contract.