Sounds good to me.

[HoopsCubs]

I think Hoops' point is that being less bad than Corey is still an upgrade, and that, given other moves, would be an acceptable move. Just trying to keep the peace! :-#

 

And Goony's point is that getting Wilson is not acceptable. I respect his opinion. I think he's wrong on this one. He thinks I'm wrong. Either way, it will always be civil.

[goonys evil twin]

I think Hoops' point is that being less bad than Corey is still an upgrade, and that, given other moves, would be an acceptable move. Just trying to keep the peace! :-#

 

And Goony's point is that getting Wilson is not acceptable. I respect his opinion. I think he's wrong on this one. He thinks I'm wrong. Either way, it will always be civil.

 

 

Not if I can help it. (here's where I wait for my premium check to clear so I can use one of those smilies with the guy on horseback looking to battle)

 

 

I'm passionate about my anti-Wilson stance. Similar to how I felt about Burnitz last offseason, and ever since you brought him up a while back, a little fire has been burning inside me, waiting to explode if he's brought in.*

 

 

 

I will say this, if Wilson is brought in, but it's not for $5-6m per for multiple years, and significant upgrades are acquired elsewhere (Giles would be a must), then I could live with it. I just don't see them being stupid enough to sign Wilson while simultaneously being smart enough to sign Giles. If they Wilson, I see them showcasing him as a real coup, possibly the marquee upgrade in the offseason.

[USSoccer]

I think Hoops' point is that being less bad than Corey is still an upgrade, and that, given other moves, would be an acceptable move. Just trying to keep the peace! :-#

 

And Goony's point is that getting Wilson is not acceptable. I respect his opinion. I think he's wrong on this one. He thinks I'm wrong. Either way, it will always be civil.

 

Oh, I know it's civil! Sometimes my sense of humor doesn't traslate well to text :D

[USSoccer]

 

BTW, what do you figure the chances that Burnitz's option is picked up? I figure 35%, but i might be way off.

 

They should be 0%. But why haven't they already dumped him? They spoke glowingly of his play all season, and have not given any indication that they were unhappy with his production. The fact that he isn't already gone frightens me. Hendry has an inexplicable love for JB, and he's had it for years. Even if they don't exercise the option, they will pay the buyout, and possibly even another $4-5m to comeback. They like the guy with absolutely no justification.

 

 

 

Just to reiterate, the Cubs were 12th, 16th and 15th in OPS in the NL from their LF, CF and RF, respectively. Yes, that's right, their RF produciton ranked lower than their LF production, despite all the talk about LF all year. And I don't believe for a second that Hendry is even aware of that stat.

 

The JB love Hendry has had hopefully will be tempered by the fact that JB had more RBI chances than Lee and ARan, yet drove in less than both, if I'm not mistaken. And that's with Aramis missing a month.

[CuseCubFan69]

I think Hoops' point is that being less bad than Corey is still an upgrade, and that, given other moves, would be an acceptable move. Just trying to keep the peace! :-#

 

And Goony's point is that getting Wilson is not acceptable. I respect his opinion. I think he's wrong on this one. He thinks I'm wrong. Either way, it will always be civil.

 

Oh, I know it's civil! Sometimes my sense of humor doesn't traslate well to text :D

 

Well you are the Rich Hill of the board.

[USSoccer]

I think Hoops' point is that being less bad than Corey is still an upgrade, and that, given other moves, would be an acceptable move. Just trying to keep the peace! :-#

 

And Goony's point is that getting Wilson is not acceptable. I respect his opinion. I think he's wrong on this one. He thinks I'm wrong. Either way, it will always be civil.

 

Oh, I know it's civil! Sometimes my sense of humor doesn't traslate well to text :D

 

Well you are the Rich Hill of the board.

 

 

:?

[Exile on Waveland]

 

BTW, what do you figure the chances that Burnitz's option is picked up? I figure 35%, but i might be way off.

 

They should be 0%. But why haven't they already dumped him? They spoke glowingly of his play all season, and have not given any indication that they were unhappy with his production. The fact that he isn't already gone frightens me. Hendry has an inexplicable love for JB, and he's had it for years. Even if they don't exercise the option, they will pay the buyout, and possibly even another $4-5m to comeback. They like the guy with absolutely no justification.

 

 

 

Just to reiterate, the Cubs were 12th, 16th and 15th in OPS in the NL from their LF, CF and RF, respectively. Yes, that's right, their RF produciton ranked lower than their LF production, despite all the talk about LF all year. And I don't believe for a second that Hendry is even aware of that stat.

 

That's my fear. The area in most need of improvement is the OF. I'm not sure the front office understands or even realizes this. While CF needs to be upgraded, it's a more difficult position to fill, and Patterson isn't a terrible option in my mind. What needs to be filled, and filled with a big-time player, not some Burnitz-clone, is RF. Right field. Right field. RF. RF. It can't be said enough.

 

The team has to imrove by getting a right fielder with superior production. Short of some dream scenario involving ARod at SS and Manny in LF, every other move will be rendered useless if RF is not dramatically improved.

[USSoccer]

I think Hoops' point is that being less bad than Corey is still an upgrade, and that, given other moves, would be an acceptable move. Just trying to keep the peace! :-#

 

And Goony's point is that getting Wilson is not acceptable. I respect his opinion. I think he's wrong on this one. He thinks I'm wrong. Either way, it will always be civil.

 

Oh, I know it's civil! Sometimes my sense of humor doesn't traslate well to text :D

 

Well you are the Rich Hill of the board.

 

 

:?

 

See? The humor of an arched eyebrow just doesn't work via emoticon.

[CuseCubFan69]

I think Hoops' point is that being less bad than Corey is still an upgrade, and that, given other moves, would be an acceptable move. Just trying to keep the peace! :-#

 

And Goony's point is that getting Wilson is not acceptable. I respect his opinion. I think he's wrong on this one. He thinks I'm wrong. Either way, it will always be civil.

 

Oh, I know it's civil! Sometimes my sense of humor doesn't traslate well to text :D

 

Well you are the Rich Hill of the board.

 

 

:?

 

See? The humor of an arched eyebrow just doesn't work via emoticon.

 

Oh....I get it now. :wink:

 

I think that Wilson could give the Cubs Burnitz numbers at CF at the 7th hitting position. That's not bad IMO with 25 HR's 265/310 and a decent CF defense. What would that rank CF wise?

[BigbadB]

Every Cub team of the 2000's has been plagued by the same disease. Poor OBP. Poor contact. Preston Wilson is just more of the same.

 

This Cubs team has the available money this offseason to go out and get good contact/good OBP guys. If I'm the Cubs front office, I don't settle for Preston Wilson when Brian Giles is available. I don't settle for Jeromy Burnitz if Adam Dunn is available. This Cub team has the potential to fill every single spot in the order (and on the bench for that matter) with guys who can put up .350+ OBP's.

 

The other problem I have with Preston Wilson is that he's right handed. If the Cubs resign Nomar (which they should), they have plenty of right handed power in the line up. They need lefty hitters to add balance and stability to the line up.

 

I'm in agreement with Goony that if the Cubs sign Preston Wilson, they will make every effort to play up this signing as the huge signing that the Cubs needed.

 

There has been little to no discussion of bringing Brian Giles on board. That should be all they are talking about at this point. Along with resigning Nomar, anyway. This should be a major concern.

[Tim]

I'll take Wilson over Lofton, but that's not saying much.

 

BTW - regarding Patterson's salary: if I were in JH's shoes and couldn't get a good value for him at this point, I'd sit down with him and his agent and explain that based upon his production in 2005 it isn't feasible for the team to give him a raise. I'd then talk with them and say that the team has by no means given up on Corey, but that paying him close to the $2.8M he made last year just isn't going to happen. I'd then see if I could get him to agree in advance to re-sign with the club for $1.5 - 2.0M after being non-tendered. He wouldn't likely make any more than that as a free agent after his disastrous season, anyway.

 

It's a fair approach for both sides. If he agreed to it, I'd move forward that way. If he didn't agree to it, then I'd consider that bucket of balls that someone else is offering. But I don't think I'd risk going to arbitration and paying $3M for him at this point.

[Tim]

Just to clarify -- the only way I'd want Corey in CF next year is if Giles (or other stud) is in RF and the infield has very solid pieces in place. In that case, I'd go to Corey and tell him that I just want him to play a great CF, concentrate on his defense and take anything he gives on offense as a bonus.

[BigbadB]

To put the importance of OBP into perspective here, the Cub team of 1998 that went to the playoffs got more RBI's from the platoon combo of Henry Rodriguez and Glenallen Hill than Derrek Lee got this year. Sammy Sosa had 158 RBI's that year with 10 less XBH's.

 

The reason these guys got that many RBI's was because they had good OBP all the way through the top half of the order. Lance Johnson had a .335 OBP, Brant Brown had a .348, Mickey Morandini had a .380, Sosa had a .377, Grace had a .401, Gaetti was at .397, Hill was at .414, Blauser at .340, Rodriguez was at .334, Sandy Martinez at .363, Matt Mieske was at .373. There were a few bad OBP's, notably Jose Hernandez, Manny Alexander, Tyler Houston, Scott Servais and Kevin Orie. But, these are not the guys who gobbled up most of the at bats. That Cub team drew 601 walks to go along with a .264 AVG. They scored 831 runs.

 

The 2005 Cubs hit .270, but only drew 419 walks. 703 runs crossed the plate in 2005, nearly 130 less runs scored. The 1998 team struck out 300 more times than the 2005 club. Strike out all you want, but strike out swinging at good pitches, not bad ones. The walks are the difference.

 

Preston Wilson doesn't walk enough and doesn't hit enough to warrant wasting any roster space on the 2006 Cub team. Fine, sign him to a luke warm deal as roster filler if you get all the other guys that really make this team better. But, I wouldn't trust that Hendry would consider him "roster filler".

[USSoccer]

I'll take Wilson over Lofton, but that's not saying much.

 

BTW - regarding Patterson's salary: if I were in JH's shoes and couldn't get a good value for him at this point, I'd sit down with him and his agent and explain that based upon his production in 2005 it isn't feasible for the team to give him a raise. I'd then talk with them and say that the team has by no means given up on Corey, but that paying him close to the $2.8M he made last year just isn't going to happen. I'd then see if I could get him to agree in advance to re-sign with the club for $1.5 - 2.0M after being non-tendered. He wouldn't likely make any more than that as a free agent after his disastrous season, anyway.

 

It's a fair approach for both sides. If he agreed to it, I'd move forward that way. If he didn't agree to it, then I'd consider that bucket of balls that someone else is offering. But I don't think I'd risk going to arbitration and paying $3M for him at this point.

 

Who is Corey's agent, BTW?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Scotty

[USSoccer]

Scotty

 

Oh, then I'm sure Tim's proposal will go over well :P

 

As good and fair of an idea Tim has, I just don't see an MLB player taking a pay cut before they hit FA. Even one as bad as Corey was last year.

[Tim]

Scotty

 

Oh, then I'm sure Tim's proposal will go over well :P

 

As good and fair of an idea Tim has, I just don't see an MLB player taking a pay cut before they hit FA. Even one as bad as Corey was last year.

He has to face the reality that if the Cubs non-tender him, he's not going to get a $3M contract elsewhere.

 

But I did forget about the Boras factor in this plan.

[BigbadB]

I wonder who else Boras has as clients that are in their free agent year this year? Patterson is such small potatoes to Boras these days that Patterson might be better served hooking up with someone else.

 

Of course, the Cubs do have a good working relationship with Boras.....

 

Forget it. Boras will have Patterson signed to a 4/16 deal with some crap GM by Spring Training.

[USSoccer]

Scotty

 

Oh, then I'm sure Tim's proposal will go over well :P

 

As good and fair of an idea Tim has, I just don't see an MLB player taking a pay cut before they hit FA. Even one as bad as Corey was last year.

He has to face the reality that if the Cubs non-tender him, he's not going to get a $3M contract elsewhere.

 

But I did forget about the Boras factor in this plan.

 

You don't think, say Colorado, Detroit, the Yankees, Red Sox or Dodgers wouldn't pay him $3m if we cut him completely loose?

 

$3m isn't a lot of money, especially for the latter 3 teams.

[Tim]

Scotty

 

Oh, then I'm sure Tim's proposal will go over well :P

 

As good and fair of an idea Tim has, I just don't see an MLB player taking a pay cut before they hit FA. Even one as bad as Corey was last year.

He has to face the reality that if the Cubs non-tender him, he's not going to get a $3M contract elsewhere.

 

But I did forget about the Boras factor in this plan.

 

You don't think, say Colorado, Detroit, the Yankees, Red Sox or Dodgers wouldn't pay him $3m if we cut him completely loose?

 

$3m isn't a lot of money, especially for the latter 3 teams.

Maybe I'm overestimating how much his horrendous 2005 will depress his value. It's possible Boras could put together one of his infamous "booklets" on Corey and show that last year was an anomoly along the way to him being a great player.

 

Can't see Epstein or DePo wanting to throw $3M his way. Detroit got much better production from their CF's in 2005. The Yankees will target a name like Hunter.

 

Colorado or Washington might be dumb enough. But I think they're too cheap.

[BigbadB]

Even with Hollandsworth, Dubois, Neifi, Macias, Enrique Wilson, Burnitz and Blanco, the Cubs still ranked 5th out of 30 teams in XBH's. This was not a team lacking power or the ability to hit.

 

The Cubs ranked 28th in BB's. Here is the problem. You would think a tema that could rank 5th in XBH's would be at or near the top in runs scored. The Cubs ranked 21st in runs scored. If they could have ranked in the top 5 in walks along with their top 5 finish in XBH's, this team would be ranked closer to first than last in runs scored.

 

Just reiterating that Preston Wilson does nothing to solve this problem.

[brinoch]

Colorado or Washington might be dumb enough. But I think they're too cheap.

 

Colorado, perhaps. But Washington already has too many OF's. Unless they trade Wilkerson... in which case we would be better served by giving them Patterson in a deal.

[frostwyrm]

Is it customary to wait this long to decline an option? If the Cubs were going to decline Burntiz you'd think they would have already done it so he could start looking for a new gig. He's kinda stuck in limbo right now.

[Tim]

Is it customary to wait this long to decline an option? If the Cubs were going to decline Burntiz you'd think they would have already done it so he could start looking for a new gig. He's kinda stuck in limbo right now.

There are a lot of players with options that haven't heard anything yet. Teams have until two weeks after the WS to declare.

[USSoccer]

Is it customary to wait this long to decline an option? If the Cubs were going to decline Burntiz you'd think they would have already done it so he could start looking for a new gig. He's kinda stuck in limbo right now.

There are a lot of players with options that haven't heard anything yet. Teams have until two weeks after the WS to declare.

 

I'd feel better if something were done sooner, rather than later. Didn't the Cubs already have organizational meetings?