Abreu, Millwood, Furcal and Eyre

[CubbieRich]

These are my big targets for 2005 off-season. I read in one of the Chicago papers that Bobby Abreu could be available. I would offer CPatt and Williams Rusch, Mitre, Koronka, Welly, Nolasco(they choose 2 pitchers.).

 

I would sign Millwood for $8-10 million, Furcal for $6-7 million and Eyre for $2-3 million.

 

I would put Rich Hill in the starting rotation with Prior, Zambrano, Maddux and Millwood. If Wood is healthy in spring training, trade him now.

 

I would put Pie in CF and bring back Kenny Lofton for bench duty or until Pie is ready.

[Derwood]

These are my big targets for 2005 off-season. I read in one of the Chicago papers that Bobby Abreu could be available. I would offer CPatt and Williams Rusch, Mitre, Koronka, Welly, Nolasco(they choose 2 pitchers.).

 

I would sign Millwood for $8-10 million, Furcal for $6-7 million and Eyre for $2-3 million.

 

I would put Rich Hill in the starting rotation with Prior, Zambrano, Maddux and Millwood. If Wood is healthy in spring training, trade him now.

 

I would put Pie in CF and bring back Kenny Lofton for bench duty or until Pie is ready.

 

If I was the Phillies GM, I would say:

 

Patterson- Huge Bust

Williams- yet to be consistent

Rusch- one good season (and not under contract)

Koronka- terrible

Welly- a project

Mitre- Jeremi Gonzalez Jr.

Nolasco - years away

 

So why would i want to give up my all star for any of this?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

These are my big targets for 2005 off-season. I read in one of the Chicago papers that Bobby Abreu could be available. I would offer CPatt and Williams Rusch, Mitre, Koronka, Welly, Nolasco(they choose 2 pitchers.).

 

I would sign Millwood for $8-10 million, Furcal for $6-7 million and Eyre for $2-3 million.

 

I would put Rich Hill in the starting rotation with Prior, Zambrano, Maddux and Millwood. If Wood is healthy in spring training, trade him now.

 

I would put Pie in CF and bring back Kenny Lofton for bench duty or until Pie is ready.

 

If I was the Phillies GM, I would say:

 

Patterson- Huge Bust

Williams- yet to be consistent

Rusch- one good season (and not under contract)

Koronka- terrible

Welly- a project

Mitre- Jeremi Gonzalez Jr.

Nolasco - years away

 

So why would i want to give up my all star for any of this?

 

I agree there. Philly would counter with saying give me Williams, Pie, and Murton along with Welly or Leicester amd Mitre or Nolasco. And even then they might want more.

 

Also, Furcal will get at least 8 million; my guess is nine million. Millwood will get at least 9 million and could reach 12 million. You're probably right on with your estimate for Eyre.

[CubbieRich]

So why would i want to give up my all star for any of this?

 

He would because:

1) The Phils need young, affordable pitching.

2) The Phils have to move salary and Abreu could be the one. No one will want Thome's contract and Ryan Howard can't play the OF.

[YearofDaCubs]

So much for getting Millwood. he is going to sign a mult-year deal with the Indians.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=fanball-indiansmillwoodtoget&prov=fanball&type=lgns

 

EDIT: It looks like they will offer a multi-year deal. So he is not guaranteed to go back with the Indians but I think he will.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

So why would i want to give up my all star for any of this?

 

He would because:

1) The Phils need young, affordable pitching.

2) The Phils have to move salary and Abreu could be the one. No one will want Thome's contract and Ryan Howard can't play the OF.

 

Moving Abreu in such a deal still doesn't solve what to do with Thome and Howard. My guess is the Phillies will say Abreu is available to someone who will give players and take Thome.

 

A team like Boston or the Orioles might bite on such a deal.

 

If the Phillies move a big contract, and it's not Thome, I'd look for Burrell to be moved instead.

[goonys evil twin]

So why would i want to give up my all star for any of this?

 

He would because:

1) The Phils need young, affordable pitching.

2) The Phils have to move salary and Abreu could be the one. No one will want Thome's contract and Ryan Howard can't play the OF.

 

Moving Abreu in such a deal still doesn't solve what to do with Thome and Howard. My guess is the Phillies will say Abreu is available to someone who will give players and take Thome.

 

A team like Boston or the Orioles might bite on such a deal.

 

If the Phillies move a big contract, and it's not Thome, I'd look for Burrell to be moved instead.

 

The Cubs have to act as a middle man to get Abreu and send Thome to an AL team. Thome's contract would be split among the three teams, with the Cubs giving up the most young talent and taking on the fewest Thome dollars.

[TheDude]

So why would i want to give up my all star for any of this?

 

He would because:

1) The Phils need quality pitching that makes them a contender next year.

I corrected it for you. This rules the Cubs out because they need the same thing. If they had it, they wouldn't trade it.

[Jazz]

So why would i want to give up my all star for any of this?

 

He would because:

1) The Phils need young, affordable pitching.

2) The Phils have to move salary and Abreu could be the one. No one will want Thome's contract and Ryan Howard can't play the OF.

 

Moving Abreu in such a deal still doesn't solve what to do with Thome and Howard. My guess is the Phillies will say Abreu is available to someone who will give players and take Thome.

 

A team like Boston or the Orioles might bite on such a deal.

 

If the Phillies move a big contract, and it's not Thome, I'd look for Burrell to be moved instead.

 

The Cubs have to act as a middle man to get Abreu and send Thome to an AL team. Thome's contract would be split among the three teams, with the Cubs giving up the most young talent and taking on the fewest Thome dollars.

 

I'd rather not get into a Mike Hampton situation, but for Abreu, it might be worth it, I can only think of a few players I would have rather than Abreu right now.

 

The Phillies have 77 million invested in only 3 players over the next 2 years (Burrell, Abreu, and Thome). No doubt about it, one of these three is going to be moved this season for the the phillies to have any breathing room this offseason. I put my money that 2 of them will be packaged together in a multiteam deal that will likely take a long time to get everybody happy with.

 

That being said, if the cubs are looking to get into this as a middleman, and send thome to a AL team to be a DH, and get Abreu or Burrell in the process, they should be aware of the risks at hand.

 

1) What if Abreu's 2nd half numbers are an indication of a decline for 2006?

2) what if the prospects they send end up panning out more than expected, and the deal in a few years look like a complete steal for the Phillies

3) and what if Abreu's (and even thome's) contract make it difficult to resign Prior, Zambrano and some of our other young guys.

 

Heres a deal that might work:

 

Cubs get: Abreu, and Jason Michaels

Cubs give: Harvey, Hill, Sing, Patterson, and Money (see below)

 

Phillies get: Harvey, Hill, Chacon, and Patterson

Phillies give: Abreu, Michaels, and Money

 

Yankees get: Thome, Sing, and Money

Yankees give: Chacon

 

With the derpature of Williams, the Yanks need a DH, and Thome fits the role perfectly, his numbers could even increase without having to play defense. Him and Giambi would switch off DH and 1B, a cycle the Yanks are using currently with Giambi and Martinez.

 

 

Money Transaction

Cubs pay 3 mil of Thome Salary in 06'

Phillies pay 3 mil of Thome Salary in 07'

Cubs and Phils each pay 1.5 (3 mil combined) of Thome Salary in 08'

 

Cubs are obliged to pay 16 mil in Abreu and Thome Contracts in 06'

Cubs.....to pay 15 mil of Abreu Contract in 07'

Cubs to pay 1.5 mil in Thome contract in 08' (Abreu has 16 mil option with 2 mil buyout)

 

The prospect hit is big, but thats about what it would take to get these 2.

 

The money isnt too hard, and with Abreu, and Michaels, we dont have to sign a OF in FA, then plug in Murton in LF, and Hairston to back up all of them, sign a true OF bench in FA.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Me want Jason Michaels.

[reggiemiller rules]

I dont see how the Phillies need young starting pitching, they have Tejada, Floyd, and Meyers who are all young ang talented. Floyd has been the worst so far and may be a little way off but Tejada proved this year he is ready. IF They trade Abreau they are gonna want a much better package then the one initially proposed on here.

[BigbadB]

What happened to Cole Hamels?

[jtownie]

I dont see how the Phillies need young starting pitching, they have Tejada, Floyd, and Meyers who are all young ang talented. Floyd has been the worst so far and may be a little way off but Tejada proved this year he is ready. IF They trade Abreau they are gonna want a much better package then the one initially proposed on here.

 

While i definitely agree that Abreu is probably worth more than the package proposed it appears to me Philly might not be in the drivers seat on this deal. If they are forced to dump payroll GM's aren't going to be offering the best package. Throw in the fact that very few teams have the leeway to take on 14m for one player for one season let alone at least 1 or 2 more at that price. PHilly seems to be at a disadvantage. Just when you think Hendry has problems, Wade seems be in more trouble.

[USSoccer]

I've said this in other threads, but in my opinion we don't have the prospects we would need to even get in the middle of a deal involving Abreu and Thome, much less Abreu on his own.

 

Our P prospects are really not top rotation guys-other than Pinto we have a bunch of bulk 5th starters/relievers and one #3 in Nolasco.

 

Our position prospects aren't much better. Pie is the best, Murton we should keep, and then we have a bunch of guys in the low minors that aren't real good trading chips. EPatt, Harvey and Dopirak probably aren't names that would make a GM salivate.

 

Philly or a 3rd team would likely want Pinto or Nolasco, Pie, and then a bunch of other arms, and I don't think Abreu is worth his salary plus prospects when we could just sign Giles for money.

[neely crenshaw]

i like damon and furcal. reggie sanders is solid also. we need a starter and set up guy. it's probably a dream but man ram is said to be on the block.

 

dream

1. damon cf

2. furcal ss

3. dlee 1b

4. man ram lf

5. aram 3b

6.sanders rf

7. barrett c

8.cedeno 2b

 

p= z, prior, wood,maddux, millwood/burnett...williams if wood fails

 

more possible

damon

furcal

dlee

aram

sanders

murton

walker/cedeno

barrett

[CuseCubFan69]

I know a lot of people like Damon but watching him throw just makes me cringe. He HAS to be able to put up good numbers offensively or he will be a huge liability.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I wouldn't mind Eyre as a LOOGY.

[LuckyPup]

Abreu makes me drool- I don't think it is feasible- I was thinking about a possible 3 ways that would help the CUBS- here's what I was thinking:

maybe:

Marlins get: M.Bradley+Cpatt+J Williams+Choi

Dodgers get: Delgado+Lowell+T.Walker+Pinto

Cubs get: Kent+Pierre+Mota+O.Perez

 

This one gives the Cubbies a leadoff option and CF+ Kent's bat at 2nd as well as a #5 starter and setup man for Dempster. Wonder what others would make some sense for us?+Antonio Perez

[UBlink]

I dont see how the Phillies need young starting pitching, they have Tejada, Floyd, and Meyers who are all young ang talented. Floyd has been the worst so far and may be a little way off but Tejada proved this year he is ready. IF They trade Abreau they are gonna want a much better package then the one initially proposed on here.

 

While i definitely agree that Abreu is probably worth more than the package proposed it appears to me Philly might not be in the drivers seat on this deal. If they are forced to dump payroll GM's aren't going to be offering the best package. Throw in the fact that very few teams have the leeway to take on 14m for one player for one season let alone at least 1 or 2 more at that price. PHilly seems to be at a disadvantage. Just when you think Hendry has problems, Wade seems be in more trouble.

 

The fact that Philly needs to dump payroll is pretty much irrelevant if several teams are interested in Abreu. He's only going to wind up with one team, and I don't want to hear Hendry say he got outbid because he wasn't going to offer more to a team trying to dump salary.

[Outshined_One]

Abreu is a big-name money guy for Philly. Believe me, the idea of having him in RF would be a dream come true at this point in his career. He's one of the most productive guys you can find in baseball today and is a hard worker. But, considering that is the case, Philly will want a lot to get him.

 

From what I can surmise, Philly will be looking for a CF next season. My gut tells me Lofton won't be hanging around there for much longer. They have a few guys who could compete for the spot (Michaels, Victorino, and Bourn who will likely be in AAA next season), but none of them will either be ready or as productive as they would like them to be. If we're talking about them trading Abreu, they will need to fill a hole in RF. So, theoretically in this trade, they could be looking for a CF (either full-time or a fill-in until one of the young guys steps up) and a RF (unless they move Burrell to right, in which case a LF would be welcome).

 

The other positions they might look to fill are 3B and C, depending on the health and contract status of David Bell and Mike Lieberthal. They might need some one who can step in and spot start next season and potentially take over down the line.

 

They play in one of the most prolific HR parks in the majors. That makes groundball pitchers a complete and total priority. They don't exactly have a pitching staff that is consistent and stable, either. Injuries are problematic for their staff (Wolf won't be back until July at the earliest after the dreaded Tommy John disease struck) and their top pitching prospects have not produced the way the Phillies have hoped. They need starting pitching with experience, success, and youth in a bad way.

 

Plus, if Wagner's leaving, their bullpen will be shot to hell. In that respect, we might be of some assistance.

 

So, the Cubs have options here. A deal involving some of the following players might garner some interest:

 

Jerome Williams (1.31 career GB/FB ratio, young, still getting back in shape)

Sergio Mitre (Doesn't seem to have a future with the Cubs, but that sinker is awfully tempting for many teams)

Scott Moore (not much pressure on him to move fast and take over for Bell, good ceiling)

Todd Wellemeyer (very nice ceiling as a reliever or a starter)

John Leicester (ditto)

Geovanny Soto (Cheap backup that can be groomed as Lieberthal's heir)

Renyel Pinto (doesn't give up many HRs to lefties...much less anyone)

Felix Pie (1st guy any team asks for in a trade with prospects)

Roberto Novoa (a bit of a spazz on the mound, but a nice upside)

Matt Murton (2nd guy any team asks for in a trade with young players)

 

That's not an all-inclusive list, but it's a decent start.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Excellent break down of the possible targets, O_O. On the other hand, I think the biggest obstacle for obtaining Abreu would be the other teams that could show interest. What teams could afford the contract and yet offer better players to get him?

 

Also, are there teams willing to take on Thome to get him? Surely we could take on Thome, but then would need to find a third team to spin him to. I don't think the Cubs could entertain such a deal until the third team was found. To spin Thome, the Cubs likely have to either take back someone else's problem or give up even more prospects. Abreu would be nice, but I think the Phillies could find even better trading partners were they inclined to move him.

 

I imagine the Mets would love to offer Cameron, Diaz, and another prospect for him. Cameron could patrol CF for Philly and Diaz could play in right. While there may be reluctance to do an intra-division trade, that looks like a better package than the Cubs could offer depending on the prospect.

 

My guess is the Orioles could afford to add both the Abreu and Thome contracts. I'm not sure what players would be offered, but taking both of those troublesome contracts might garner interest.

 

Could the Rangers accept both contracts while sending Nix and Mench to Philly? While it seems ridiculous that the Rangers would seek offense at the expense of pitching, it might be something they would look at.

 

I just think there could be too many teams that could help the Phillies more than the Cubs for an Abreu deal to be a legitimate possibility for the Cubs. If he's available, the Cubs should try to do whatever they can to get him, I just don't see this as anything that will ever become immenient.

[Tedward]

Excellent break down of the possible targets, O_O. On the other hand, I think the biggest obstacle for obtaining Abreu would be the other teams that could show interest. What teams could afford the contract and yet offer better players to get him?

 

Also, are there teams willing to take on Thome to get him? Surely we could take on Thome, but then would need to find a third team to spin him to. I don't think the Cubs could entertain such a deal until the third team was found. To spin Thome, the Cubs likely have to either take back someone else's problem or give up even more prospects. Abreu would be nice, but I think the Phillies could find even better trading partners were they inclined to move him.

 

I imagine the Mets would love to offer Cameron, Diaz, and another prospect for him. Cameron could patrol CF for Philly and Diaz could play in right. While there may be reluctance to do an intra-division trade, that looks like a better package than the Cubs could offer depending on the prospect.

 

My guess is the Orioles could afford to add both the Abreu and Thome contracts. I'm not sure what players would be offered, but taking both of those troublesome contracts might garner interest.

 

Could the Rangers accept both contracts while sending Nix and Mench to Philly? While it seems ridiculous that the Rangers would seek offense at the expense of pitching, it might be something they would look at.

 

I just think there could be too many teams that could help the Phillies more than the Cubs for an Abreu deal to be a legitimate possibility for the Cubs. If he's available, the Cubs should try to do whatever they can to get him, I just don't see this as anything that will ever become immenient.

 

Aaaaarrrrrgggghhhhhh.......I can't take the Bobby Abreu lovefest on this board any more.

 

I think your're selling yourself a bit short on Abreu. He'll be available for the right price. Abreu has great fantasy stats, the statgeeks will love his OBP and OPS, but when the game is on the line, he crumbles and goes into a shell. I'd rather not have my cleanup hitter that I'm paying $9MM+ a year looking for walks when the game is on the line.

 

How do I know this, because I live outside of PHL and watch the Phillies on a day to day basis. Check out Abreu's stats in the second half of the season too. A sign of things to come? Perhaps. Maybe maybe not. But, Abreu time and time again in game critical situations is not the man. For what the Phillies are paying him, he's way overrated.

 

Rollins, Utley and Howard carried that team down the stretch. If Wade is smart, he'll try to package Abreu and try to get back a #1 pitcher.

 

I know I'll get crucified for this post because the NSBB community loves Abreu....All I can say is that if you watched him play on a daily basis like I have, you would have a different impression. And hustle??? Please, Abreu is one of the laziest ballplayers in the major leagues. Steals - sure he can steal bases, but watch him when he hits the ball and runs the bases to see how aggressive he is run - he doggs it. Also, watch him in LF when the ball is hit to him to see how he hustles (lack thereof) for balls hit his way. Sure, Abreu has the stats, but he's not a building block player for which I would want the Cubs to pay big money to acquire.

 

I'd rather the Cubs give Murton RF than give up a Zambrano or whatever bounty would be required to obtain Abreu.

 

BTW - Vance, this post isn't directed as you. It's my frustration that this board has with Abreu. Everyone looks at the stats. There's more to the game than the stats.

[goonys evil twin]

I don't appreciate the stat geeks label.

 

I love Abreu, and one of the things I love even more is the "if you watched him every day" claim.

 

 

This my friends, is why I think he'd be available.

[Tedward]

I don't appreciate the stat geeks label.

 

I love Abreu, and one of the things I love even more is the "if you watched him every day" claim.

 

 

This my friends, is why I think he'd be available.

 

Yeah, I knew you would respond to my post Goony. Sorry about the stat geek comment. Your're right, that was uncalled for.

 

Well, I agree with you that he'll be available.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree the player though I'm just not a fan of his and I'd rather not see the Cubs get him. I think Cubs fans would be expecting more than what they would actually be getting.

 

I suppose I could come around on Abreu if PHL would put Utley into the deal as a throw-in....lol

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Aaaaarrrrrgggghhhhhh.......I can't take the Bobby Abreu lovefest on this board any more.

 

I think your're selling yourself a bit short on Abreu. He'll be available for the right price. Abreu has great fantasy stats, the statgeeks will love his OBP and OPS, but when the game is on the line, he crumbles and goes into a shell. I'd rather not have my cleanup hitter that I'm paying $9MM+ a year looking for walks when the game is on the line.

 

How do I know this, because I live outside of PHL and watch the Phillies on a day to day basis. Check out Abreu's stats in the second half of the season too. A sign of things to come? Perhaps. Maybe maybe not. But, Abreu time and time again in game critical situations is not the man. For what the Phillies are paying him, he's way overrated.

 

Abreu for the season: .286/.405/.474/.879

w/ Runners On: .305/.426/.505/.931

w/ RISP: .303/.444/.500/.944

w/ Bases Loaded: .294/.333/.824/1.157

Close and Late: .298/.422/.571/.993

 

Abreu for his career: .303/.411/.512/.923

w/ Runners On: .327/.443/.540/.983

w/ RISP: .321/.454/.549/1.003

w/ Bases Loaded: .330/.403/.585/.988

Close and Late not available for his career