I think I just threw up in my mouth..Hendry/Dusty Extensions

[CubfaninCA]

From getting so close to the WS in 2003 to this disaster? How did it get so bad so fast?

 

Pretty simple. Look @ what Prior and Wood did in 2003 compared to this year.

There's more to it than that.

 

Such as??

 

I'm not blaming either. It's just those two were great in 2003.. If this is 2003, the Cubs win 4-1 today.

Here we go again:

 

Poor coaching.

Poor manager

Terribel off-season which caused more holes on the roster.

A regressed and unhealthy starting pitching

A lack of good arms in the bullpen

A lack of taking walks

No patience at the plate

Not starting/playing the best players on the team

Injuries

No solid day in/day out lineup.

Poor manager

and probably some more but that sums it up IMO.

 

The Cub offense is better this year than 2003, and they have the same manager.

[Bruce Miles]

I'm sure there will be a change or two to the coaching staff. I'm not sure just what it will be yet. As I wrote a week or so ago, there are only three positions _ catcher, first base and third base _ that are set. Hendry has a lot of work to do, and addressing coaching is just part of it.

On the signs, I think they were pretty clear. Chris Speier is a pretty good third base coach. Sometimes, the player has to take a hit.

[MembersOnlyJacket]

Perceptions are a funny thing. Baker thinks he's getting hammered by the media in Chicago. In San Francisco, they fawned all over him, and they're still doing it. Wait'll this weekend when we go there and all the "Poor Dusty" stories come out in the Bay Area media.

It's hard for me to comment, but if you read Gene Wojciechowski's great book, "Cub Nation," he says the Cubs media have been "firm but fair." For the most part, we gave Dusty the benefit of the doubt in 2003. Things started to change last year with the circus atmosphere that permeated the club. This year, it's been a little more critical.

I won't do character assassination, but I'll point out things like how the Cubs have ignored or under valued sabermetrics or how Dusty doesn't like playing the kids or how his lineups have hurt the team.

We'll see how the other outlets play it, especially if the Cubs don't make it back to .500.

 

Bayless (God help him) seems to be the only "writer" in the Bay Area to have noted Baker's fallacies. I'm curious to see if he puts anything to print on Dusty this weekend given the current state of the Cubs. With this all being said, I have a hard time grasping how the Cubs could possibly offer to extend Baker through '08. Is it the fact that the club won two years in a row, filled the seats daily, and filled them again this season ? Is it the fact that so many fans don't realize the failures of Dusty and just give this organization a pass ?

 

I've often wondered how good the relationships are between Baker-Hendry, Hendry-MacPhail, and Baker-MacPhail. Does MacPhail still pull more organization and personnel strings than we realize ?

[abuck1220]

I think quote from Hairston is just a important as the players missing signs.

 

"I didn't see anything," he said. "Maybe he put it on when I put on my [elbow] guard or something, so I really can't comment on it. Nobody really talked to me about it. I guess it will be discussed [Tuesday] if I did or not."

 

If a player missed a sign during a crucial stretch in the game, the first thing I do as manager is chew his butt or if I'm in a patient mood, ask him about what happened. The fact that Baker/Speier/Clines etc. didn't even mention anything to Hairston shows how inept this coaching staff really easy. No wonder why players want to play for Baker, they don't catch an earful when they mess up.

 

somewhere else baker said that part of the reason he took prior out was because prior's leg was hurt. prior's response was something to the effect of 'i have no idea.'

 

then you have walker whining about the announcers again.

 

looks like this year's team is mounting a furious run in an effort to match last year's circus.

[CubfaninCA]

I'm sure there will be a change or two to the coaching staff. I'm not sure just what it will be yet. As I wrote a week or so ago, there are only three positions _ catcher, first base and third base _ that are set. Hendry has a lot of work to do, and addressing coaching is just part of it.

On the signs, I think they were pretty clear. Chris Speier is a pretty good third base coach. Sometimes, the player has to take a hit.

 

Will they look to add an arm to the rotation or will they cross their fingers w/ Wood again?? I've seen stuff in the paper's about Burnett, but highly doubt the Cubs will ante up for him.

[YearofDaCubs]

From getting so close to the WS in 2003 to this disaster? How did it get so bad so fast?

 

Pretty simple. Look @ what Prior and Wood did in 2003 compared to this year.

There's more to it than that.

 

Such as??

 

I'm not blaming either. It's just those two were great in 2003.. If this is 2003, the Cubs win 4-1 today.

Here we go again:

 

Poor coaching.

Poor manager

Terribel off-season which caused more holes on the roster.

A regressed and unhealthy starting pitching

A lack of good arms in the bullpen

A lack of taking walks

No patience at the plate

Not starting/playing the best players on the team

Injuries

No solid day in/day out lineup.

Poor manager

and probably some more but that sums it up IMO.

 

The Cub offense is better this year than 2003, and they have the same manager.

That isnt saying much. What the heck does 2003 have to do with 2005? We won more games in 2004 than we did in 2003 yet we still didnt make the playoffs. THe trade for Lawton and Ramirez, and the fact that the Cards and Astros lost grip of the division made us go to the playoffs in 2003. Things are different now, and teams are better yet we are not.

[Mark_R]

Perceptions are a funny thing. Baker thinks he's getting hammered by the media in Chicago. In San Francisco, they fawned all over him, and they're still doing it. Wait'll this weekend when we go there and all the "Poor Dusty" stories come out in the Bay Area media.

It's hard for me to comment, but if you read Gene Wojciechowski's great book, "Cub Nation," he says the Cubs media have been "firm but fair." For the most part, we gave Dusty the benefit of the doubt in 2003. Things started to change last year with the circus atmosphere that permeated the club. This year, it's been a little more critical.

I won't do character assassination, but I'll point out things like how the Cubs have ignored or under valued sabermetrics or how Dusty doesn't like playing the kids or how his lineups have hurt the team.

We'll see how the other outlets play it, especially if the Cubs don't make it back to .500.

 

Bayless (God help him) seems to be the only "writer" in the Bay Area to have noted Baker's fallacies. I'm curious to see if he puts anything to print on Dusty this weekend given the current state of the Cubs. With this all being said, I have a hard time grasping how the Cubs could possibly offer to extend Baker through '08. Is it the fact that the club won two years in a row, filled the seats daily, and filled them again this season ? Is it the fact that so many fans don't realize the failures of Dusty and just give this organization a pass ?

 

I've often wondered how good the relationships are between Baker-Hendry, Hendry-MacPhail, and Baker-MacPhail. Does MacPhail still pull more organization and personnel strings than we realize ?

 

Any word if Scoop Jackson has his weekly race article ready in rebuttal to Skip's Baker Angst?

[Bruce Miles]

You're right about Bayless.

 

On the front-office relationships, the MacPhail-Hendry relationship is very strong. Baker and Hendry still have a good relationship, but as you saw with the Wendell Kim firing, Hendry will step in and assert his authority. You will see that again this winter. Let's remember that Hendry hired Baker because he thought he was the right guy at the time for the job. I'm sure he still thinks that, but time changes things. Most GMs will go awhile with their guy because after they fire one, the clock starts ticking on the GM.

[YearofDaCubs]

I'm sure there will be a change or two to the coaching staff. I'm not sure just what it will be yet. As I wrote a week or so ago, there are only three positions _ catcher, first base and third base _ that are set. Hendry has a lot of work to do, and addressing coaching is just part of it.

On the signs, I think they were pretty clear. Chris Speier is a pretty good third base coach. Sometimes, the player has to take a hit.

Speier is the only coach that should stay in my opinion.

[CubfaninCA]

From getting so close to the WS in 2003 to this disaster? How did it get so bad so fast?

 

Pretty simple. Look @ what Prior and Wood did in 2003 compared to this year.

There's more to it than that.

 

Such as??

 

I'm not blaming either. It's just those two were great in 2003.. If this is 2003, the Cubs win 4-1 today.

Here we go again:

 

Poor coaching.

Poor manager

Terribel off-season which caused more holes on the roster.

A regressed and unhealthy starting pitching

A lack of good arms in the bullpen

A lack of taking walks

No patience at the plate

Not starting/playing the best players on the team

Injuries

No solid day in/day out lineup.

Poor manager

and probably some more but that sums it up IMO.

 

The Cub offense is better this year than 2003, and they have the same manager.

That isnt saying much. What the heck does 2003 have to do with 2005? We won more games in 2004 than we did in 2003 yet we still didnt make the playoffs. THe trade for Lawton and Ramirez, and the fact that the Cards and Astros lost grip of the division made us go to the playoffs in 2003. Things are different now, and teams are better yet we are not.

 

You're the one who brought up 2003. You wanted to know what has happened since then. Well the pitching has went from 3rd to 10th, while the hitting has gotten a little better and the coaching remain crappy. My guess is that the defense is worse too.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

While most of the SF media seems (seemed?) to love Dusty, most of the fans I've talked to couldn't stand him and were thankful to get rid of him after 2002. (Of course, the same ones now hate Felipe Alou just as much.)

[USSoccer]

What's most dissapointing is that there's been no accountability for any of the mistakes, from anyone. Hendry won't be held accountable for his awful winter, Baker hasn't been held accountable by Hendry for numerous things, and many of the playwers aren't help accountable for poor execution and poor performance.

 

I think the Cubs window is closing very, very fast.

 

 

Bruce, thanks for the info. Your contributions are fantastic!

[Bruce Miles]

If healthy, Wood will begin next year as a starter. With so many holes to fill on offense, I don't see them signing a big-name starting pitcher.

[muntjack]

I'm sure there will be a change or two to the coaching staff. I'm not sure just what it will be yet. As I wrote a week or so ago, there are only three positions _ catcher, first base and third base _ that are set. Hendry has a lot of work to do, and addressing coaching is just part of it.

On the signs, I think they were pretty clear. Chris Speier is a pretty good third base coach. Sometimes, the player has to take a hit.

 

Will they look to add an arm to the rotation or will they cross their fingers w/ Wood again?? I've seen stuff in the paper's about Burnett, but highly doubt the Cubs will ante up for him.

 

We'll have money out the wazoo, tons of pressure on Jim and Dusty to push for the playoffs, and a nice core of talent. If we do not acquire a COUPLE of top-tier players, I will be shocked.

[CubfaninCA]

What's most dissapointing is that there's been no accountability for any of the mistakes, from anyone. Hendry won't be held accountable for his awful winter, Baker hasn't been held accountable by Hendry for numerous things, and many of the playwers aren't help accountable for poor execution and poor performance.

 

I think the Cubs window is closing very, very fast.

 

 

Bruce, thanks for the info. Your contributions are fantastic!

 

Altogether, the Trib suks. They won't ante up for guys who could really help (Burnett), and they'll keep around those who need to go (Dusty).

[YearofDaCubs]

If healthy, Wood will begin next year as a starter. With so many holes to fill on offense, I don't see them signing a big-name starting pitcher.

Bruce,

 

Is there any talk about having a payroll less than 100mil?

[Bruce Miles]

The Cubs' window does appear to be closing. The thing to watch for is how the Cubs spend their money this off-season. If they can spend $100 million and spend it wisely (I know, I know), they have a chance to vault right back into contention. The key will be sustaining it year to year, which they've not been able to do.

[MembersOnlyJacket]

You're right about Bayless.

 

On the front-office relationships, the MacPhail-Hendry relationship is very strong. Baker and Hendry still have a good relationship, but as you saw with the Wendell Kim firing, Hendry will step in and assert his authority. You will see that again this winter. Let's remember that Hendry hired Baker because he thought he was the right guy at the time for the job. I'm sure he still thinks that, but time changes things. Most GMs will go awhile with their guy because after they fire one, the clock starts ticking on the GM.

 

Ah yes, great point on Wendell Kim. I'm curious about Rothschild's status for next season in this regard. I never see Baker and Rothschild discuss things in the dugout coupled with the "it's Larry's department" comments make me wonder about the status of Larry for next year and beyond ? In fact today, Rothschild went out to the mount to talk to Prior and it looked like they were going to go after Pujols. Then, just as Blanco sat back at the plate, he got up on a signal for the intentional walk - which I assume came from Baker. My perception is, and it may be totally off base, that there isn't much of a relationship left between Baker and Rothschild (if there ever was one to begin with).

[Transmogrified Tiger]

What's most dissapointing is that there's been no accountability for any of the mistakes, from anyone. Hendry won't be held accountable for his awful winter, Baker hasn't been held accountable by Hendry for numerous things, and many of the playwers aren't help accountable for poor execution and poor performance.

 

I think the Cubs window is closing very, very fast.

 

 

Bruce, thanks for the info. Your contributions are fantastic!

 

Altogether, the Trib suks. They won't ante up for guys who could really help (Burnett), and they'll keep around those who need to go (Dusty).

 

I'm pretty sure that it's Hendry's call on Dusty. To me, the Trib isn't the bad guy here. They've put up a 9 digit payroll, and if they keep it that way or even close to it, then I don't have any complaints with them(since I don't necessarily want Hendry gone). It's Hendry's job to allocate that hefty payroll to "the guys who could really help".

[Mizzou]

6 pages into the thread, so I have no idea what the topic of discussion currently is, but...

 

If Dusty Baker is given an extension, I wont spend a single cent on Cubs merchandise or tickets next year, and it'll take a LOT to get me to even watch a game. Oh man, what terrible news this is.

[CubfaninCA]

I'm sure there will be a change or two to the coaching staff. I'm not sure just what it will be yet. As I wrote a week or so ago, there are only three positions _ catcher, first base and third base _ that are set. Hendry has a lot of work to do, and addressing coaching is just part of it.

On the signs, I think they were pretty clear. Chris Speier is a pretty good third base coach. Sometimes, the player has to take a hit.

 

Will they look to add an arm to the rotation or will they cross their fingers w/ Wood again?? I've seen stuff in the paper's about Burnett, but highly doubt the Cubs will ante up for him.

 

We'll have money out the wazoo, tons of pressure on Jim and Dusty to push for the playoffs, and a nice core of talent. If we do not acquire a COUPLE of top-tier players, I will be shocked.

 

My guess, Burnett to the east coast or St. Louis..

Furcal to a team who will give him 5 years. Thus forget the Cubs.

Giles stays in SoCal.

Nomar to a team that gives him 2 to 3 years. Perhaps the Cubs..

Probably have to hope for a trade or two. I'll take Manny!! :D

[Bruce Miles]

With all the pressure that's on the Cubs, there's very little chance they'd have a payroll under $100 million.

The Baker-Rothschild relationship is harder to read. I wouldn't be surprised either way there.

I'm not confident Nomar will be a Cub next year. Furcal is an interesting case. He'd be a great fit at short and in the leadoff spot. Will the Cubs be scared off by his off-field stuff? Not sure. They seem to like "character" guys.

[bhogg]

Bruce, you need an avatar.

[Bruce Miles]

Bruce, you need an avatar.

 

I'm lucky I know how to turn on a computer. For work, I just have to know how to type and hit "send."

[erik316wttn]

Perceptions are a funny thing. Baker thinks he's getting hammered by the media in Chicago. In San Francisco, they fawned all over him, and they're still doing it. Wait'll this weekend when we go there and all the "Poor Dusty" stories come out in the Bay Area media.

It's hard for me to comment, but if you read Gene Wojciechowski's great book, "Cub Nation," he says the Cubs media have been "firm but fair." For the most part, we gave Dusty the benefit of the doubt in 2003. Things started to change last year with the circus atmosphere that permeated the club. This year, it's been a little more critical.

I won't do character assassination, but I'll point out things like how the Cubs have ignored or under valued sabermetrics or how Dusty doesn't like playing the kids or how his lineups have hurt the team.

We'll see how the other outlets play it, especially if the Cubs don't make it back to .500.

 

I'm really shocked they haven't been tougher on him. Odds are this team finishes sub-.500 after 88 wins last year, and he's dodging questions left and right. Any other market he'd be raked over the coals.