WS Prediction.....

OldHappyCubFan · August 17, 2005

haha

Well El Duque is MONEY in the playoffs.

His record is pretty darn good.

vance_the_cubs_fan · August 17, 2005

I'm picking Atlanta over Boston in the World Series.

wolf stansson · August 17, 2005

While Carpenter is a good pitcher, he isn't a big playoff pitcher. I'd rather have El Duque in the playoffs over Carpenter.

LOL. I usually don't say that because I don't usually laugh out loud at someone's post, but for once:

LOL.

Sweet nonexistent sample size dude.

Edited August 18, 2005 by wolf stansson

TrueBlueCubFan · August 17, 2005

I will be suprised if Carpenter stays healthy the whole season, which he has only done once in his career,IIRC. Without him, they are very suspect in a 7 game series.

My pick for the WS:

Atlanta over NYY

CardsFanInChiTown · August 17, 2005

Since i'm a homer I'll pick Cards over the A's.

I'm a little shocked no one is picking SD! :wink:

SouthSideRyan · August 18, 2005

If Griffey does end up on the Sox, they'd be nuts to play him anywhere but center field. He can DH from time to time to save some energy, but he's better than any outfielder they have.

He's an awful center fielder these days. Maybe 5 years ago, but not now. Rowand has him in every single department.

Well he's not an awful CF, but Rowand is definitely better out there. Griffey is still a better fielder than Podsednik or Everett. But of course you've gotta keep Everett's 317 OBP in there. It kept a superior player out in Frank Thomas who had been with the team for 15 years. So why move him for Griffey?

treebird · August 18, 2005

I can't believe how many people picked the A's.

I might be the biggest fan of them on here, and I wouldn't say they're any better than 50/50 to even make the playoffs, let alone win 2 rounds.

CardsFanInChiTown · August 18, 2005

I can't believe how many people picked the A's.

I might be the biggest fan of them on here, and I wouldn't say they're any better than 50/50 to even make the playoffs, let alone win 2 rounds.

I picked the A's but thats a really good point. According to baseballprospectus.com it's a 58.74453 chance...

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/ps_odds.php

gus_dog · August 18, 2005

I think the highly offensive explosion of the AL, will dominate the Cards pitching staff, which is simply what happened last year.

The Cards ran into Houston, which gave them a big run for their money. While Carpenter is a good pitcher, he isn't a big playoff pitcher. I'd rather have El Duque in the playoffs over Carpenter.

In fact, how many playoff starts does he even have? He didnt pitch in last years playoffs, and he was with the Blue Jays before that.

Theres too many "ifs" with the Cards. Edmonds isn't doing squat, hes having a down year. I know that much for having him on my fantasy team.

Pujols IS the Cards offense. It should be interesting, but I highly doubt they'll win it. If Houston makes it, I pick them over the Cards.

To say they're the same team as last year shows me that you haven't seen a single Cardinals game this year.

Statistically, I think they were better last season. Theres a month left, and their roster is pretty banged up and inconsistent. The bullpen isn't as good.

You almost had me, until here:

The pitching troubles of Mulder and Morris are the same, throw in Suppan and Marquis, and you have a team on the brink of failure come playoff time.

Nope, they are not the brink of failure. They are not to be confused with last year's team. They are different...., greatly.

I think the Angels have a better team then the Cards, but their win/loss column doesen't show it, because the AL is a tougher league imo.

OldHappyCubFan · August 18, 2005

LOL. I usually don't say that because I don't usually laugh out loud at someone's post, but for once:

LOL.

Sweet nonexistent sample size dude.

LOL!

Here I'll do it again.

LOL!

Now show me stats to prove me wrong. I can be wrong, but unless somebody shows me statistics, then I'm not swayed.

The Cardinal team, doesen't strike me as a clutch powerhouse kind of time. Cards talk is littered with Card fans calling for Pujol's head because he doesent do good in late innings, and at the end of the game when the Cards have RISP and he doesen't come through.

They lost all the games in the NLCS AT Houston. Then they blew all the games in the World Series.

If you ask me, I think Houston should have won the NLCS.

wolf stansson · August 18, 2005

Now show me stats to prove me wrong. I can be wrong, but unless somebody shows me statistics, then I'm not swayed.

That was the point of my nonexistent sample size comment. He has zero postseason appearances. It strikes me as blatantly homerish and ignorant for you to just assume that someone who is the second best pitcher in baseball this year won't be a good playoff performer. Especially when he hasn't showed any signs of struggling under pressure. In games against divisional rivals, overhyped head-to-head matchups with cy young rivals, and when his team was having a losing skid he has excelled. Not to mention his record against projected playoff teams (see: Clemens V. Carpenter thread).

Cards talk is littered with Card fans calling for Pujol's head because he doesent do good in late innings, and at the end of the game when the Cards have RISP and he doesen't come through.

There are (how can I put this politely) uninformed fans such as yourself on every team's message board. Don't take the few isolated ramblings of a few morans as the truth.

They lost all the games in the NLCS AT Houston. Then they blew all the games in the World Series.

If you ask me, I think Houston should have won the NLCS.

That's why they play games live as opposed to asking some ridiculous internet magnate who should win the series. We outplayed them in St. Louis, they outplayed us in Houston. Not uncommon with two nearly evenly matched teams.

You keep demanding stats to go against your argument to prove you wrong. How come you haven't had any stats to back up your preposterous stance?

reggiemiller rules · August 18, 2005

I dont see how you can say Houston should have won, your excuse that the Cards didnt win any in houston works the other way and Houston didnt win any in St. Louis. Also they had their ace Clemens going in game 7. So the cards beat their ace to win. How exactley did they deserve to win.

PujolsPower · August 18, 2005

Now show me stats to prove me wrong. I can be wrong, but unless somebody shows me statistics, then I'm not swayed.

The Cardinal team, doesen't strike me as a clutch powerhouse kind of time. Cards talk is littered with Card fans calling for Pujol's head because he doesent do good in late innings, and at the end of the game when the Cards have RISP and he doesen't come through.

They lost all the games in the NLCS AT Houston. Then they blew all the games in the World Series.

If you ask me, I think Houston should have won the NLCS.

2004 Playoff Rotation

Woody Williams 4.18

Matt Morris 4.72 ERA

Suppan 4.16

Closer

Izzy 2.87

2005 Playoff Rotation

Chris Carpenter 2.25

Morris 3.83

Mulder 3.87

Closer

Izzy 1.77

The offense isn't quite as potent, but has the potential to be pretty close if players can get healthy. The pitching is definitely in better shape, and I believe that I have heard that pitching is important in the playoffs.

Exile on Waveland · August 18, 2005

I think it'll be the Cardinals from the NL. They're simply the best team in the NL, if not baseball.

The AL is murkier to me, though I think it'll be either the Red Sox or Angels. I love the A's, but I'm concerned they won't even make the playoffs, much less the World Series. Call me biased, but I think the White Sox will have a similar postseason to their 2000 affair (not to say they'll get swept, just that it'll be disappointing). Yankees, if they make it, lack the pitching just like last year -- though they'll be a threat. The Red Sox dominated the Angels last year, but that was with Pedro, Lowe and Schilling starting, none of which may happen this time around.

I'll go Cardinals over Angels.

OldHappyCubFan · August 18, 2005

There are (how can I put this politely) uninformed fans such as yourself on every team's message board. Don't take the few isolated ramblings of a few morans as the truth.

Personal attacks are not allowed. So I'd like it if you don't attack, but calmly describe your stance.

I'll say this clearly. REGULAR SEASON MEANS NOTHING IN THE PLAYOFFS.

It is well documented that many regular season stars, simply don't show up in the playoffs. In ALL of the sports leagues, many all-star players are not good clutch/playoff performers.

Bottem line. Chris Carpenter has done NOTHING in the playoffs. So lets not say hes a playoff ace when he hasen't done anything.

The Cardinals will not win this year. Thats my prediction. If you don't like it, then I'm sorry.

If they win, I'll eat my crow, but as of right now, their team is very flawed with injuries and inconsistency.

Catman61 · August 18, 2005

haha

Well El Duque is MONEY in the playoffs.

His record is pretty darn good.

If we were still in the 90's, El Duque would be great but we aren't

El Duque postseason

pre-2000 5-0 1.02 ERA

2005-now 4-3 4.03 ERA

XZero771679666304 · August 18, 2005

Now show me stats to prove me wrong. I can be wrong, but unless somebody shows me statistics, then I'm not swayed.

The Cardinal team, doesen't strike me as a clutch powerhouse kind of time. Cards talk is littered with Card fans calling for Pujol's head because he doesent do good in late innings, and at the end of the game when the Cards have RISP and he doesen't come through.

They lost all the games in the NLCS AT Houston. Then they blew all the games in the World Series.

If you ask me, I think Houston should have won the NLCS.

2004 Playoff Rotation
Woody Williams 4.18
Matt Morris 4.72 ERA
Suppan 4.16

Closer
Izzy 2.87

2005 Playoff Rotation
Chris Carpenter 2.25
Morris 3.83
Mulder 3.87

Closer
Izzy 1.77

The offense isn't quite as potent, but has the potential to be pretty close if players can get healthy. The pitching is definitely in better shape, and I believe that I have heard that pitching is important in the playoffs.

I agree with you for the most part, but Morris has really been scuffling of late, and hasn't looked goot at all in the second half. By the time you reach the postseason, you may not get any more from him than you did last year.

Also, Carpenter still has pitched only one full season in his career, and none in the past four years. With LaRussa riding him like a horse, I wouldn't assume anything.

Catman61 · August 18, 2005

I'll say this clearly. REGULAR SEASON MEANS NOTHING IN THE PLAYOFFS.

It is well documented that many regular season stars, simply don't show up in the playoffs. In ALL of the sports leagues, many all-star players are not good clutch/playoff performers.

Bottem line. Chris Carpenter has done NOTHING in the playoffs. So lets not say hes a playoff ace when he hasen't done anything.

OK, so Mulder is the Cardinals postseason ace and Carpenter is #2

wolf stansson · August 18, 2005

There are (how can I put this politely) uninformed fans such as yourself on every team's message board. Don't take the few isolated ramblings of a few morans as the truth.

Personal attacks are not allowed. So I'd like it if you don't attack, but calmly describe your stance.

I didn't see it as an attack. As you clearly stated:

While Carpenter is a good pitcher, he isn't a big playoff pitcher.

That is an uninformed stance. Chris Carpenter has zero postseason starts. Therefore you have no information to back up your argument, therefore you are uninformed. Sorry, but that's the way it is.

I'll say this clearly. REGULAR SEASON MEANS NOTHING IN THE PLAYOFFS. It is well documented that many regular season stars, simply don't show up in the playoffs.

Are you trying to tell me that MOST regular season stars disappear in the playoffs. That's once again ignorant, because MOST regular season stars are stars in the postseason as well. I'm not denying there are chokers, but more often than not, a player is the same player in the postseason as he is in the regular season.

Chris Carpenter has done NOTHING in the playoffs. So lets not say hes a playoff ace when he hasen't done anything.

I didn't say he was a playoff ace.

Also, if you don't want people calling him an ace, how about you play by your same rules and not call him "not a big playoff pitcher" when you have even less evidence to back up that statement.

The Cardinals will not win this year. Thats my prediction. If you don't like it, then I'm sorry.

Like I care who you think will win the World Series. I obviously don't think very highly of your predictions regarding Carp.

If they win, I'll eat my crow, but as of right now, their team is very flawed with injuries and inconsistency

I won't be back here making you eat crow, because you shouldn't have to put up with that. I really don't mind you having your opinion about the Cardinals not winning or Carp not being clutch or whatever you are insinuating; I'm just bothered by how uninformed your stance is. I tried to give you a little contrary information, but if you don't look at it and evaluate it, that's not my problem.

OldHappyCubFan · August 18, 2005

No you really do care about how I feel.

You're breaking down literally every word I've typed onto this forum, and trying to take the stance of Bill Nye the Science Guy.

I stated in previous posts, and answered my own questions, that Carp has no postseason starts. I thought he squeezed in a year with the Blue Jays, but I am pretty uninformed when it comes to that particular team.

Theres tons of star players that choke in the playoffs. In fact, the MAJORITY choke in the playoffs. Heros like D Lowe, are born. Often its the little guys that make things happen.

Pujols, Edmonds, and Rolen didn't show up last year. The Yankee's stars didn't do too well. Even Manny had a stretch where he stunk it up.

I think the White Sox have the advantage, in the fact that none of their bigger players have a whole lot of pressure on them. Somebody like ARod, or Pujols have huge expectations on their shoulders.

I'll restate the thesis statement, that the Cards will not win.

Theres really no need to break it down, and argue about it. Rolen's done for the year, the fork is halfway into them. Pretty soon their pitching staff will suffer an injury, and I'll be right come October.

SwisherSweet · August 18, 2005

No you really do care about how I feel.

You're breaking down literally every word I've typed onto this forum, and trying to take the stance of Bill Nye the Science Guy.

I stated in previous posts, and answered my own questions, that Carp has no postseason starts. I thought he squeezed in a year with the Blue Jays, but I am pretty uninformed when it comes to that particular team.

Theres tons of star players that choke in the playoffs. In fact, the MAJORITY choke in the playoffs. Heros like D Lowe, are born. Often its the little guys that make things happen.

Pujols, Edmonds, and Rolen didn't show up last year. The Yankee's stars didn't do too well. Even Manny had a stretch where he stunk it up.

I think the White Sox have the advantage, in the fact that none of their bigger players have a whole lot of pressure on them. Somebody like ARod, or Pujols have huge expectations on their shoulders.

I'll restate the thesis statement, that the Cards will not win.

Theres really no need to break it down, and argue about it. Rolen's done for the year, the fork is halfway into them. Pretty soon their pitching staff will suffer an injury, and I'll be right come October.

Please, give it up. Chris Carpenter isn't going to all of a sudden forget how to pitch in the playoffs. Just because Pujols and Edmonds didn't play well in the WS last year doesn't mean history will repeat itself. Remember when everyone said Barry Bonds was a playoff choker? He hit almost .500 in the World Series. There is no "proof" the Cardinals will choke in the playoffs.

indifferent · August 18, 2005

No you really do care about how I feel.

You're breaking down literally every word I've typed onto this forum, and trying to take the stance of Bill Nye the Science Guy.

I stated in previous posts, and answered my own questions, that Carp has no postseason starts. I thought he squeezed in a year with the Blue Jays, but I am pretty uninformed when it comes to that particular team.

Theres tons of star players that choke in the playoffs. In fact, the MAJORITY choke in the playoffs. Heros like D Lowe, are born. Often its the little guys that make things happen.

Pujols, Edmonds, and Rolen didn't show up last year. The Yankee's stars didn't do too well. Even Manny had a stretch where he stunk it up.

I think the White Sox have the advantage, in the fact that none of their bigger players have a whole lot of pressure on them. Somebody like ARod, or Pujols have huge expectations on their shoulders.

I'll restate the thesis statement, that the Cards will not win.

Theres really no need to break it down, and argue about it. Rolen's done for the year, the fork is halfway into them. Pretty soon their pitching staff will suffer an injury, and I'll be right come October.

Please, give it up. Chris Carpenter isn't going to all of a sudden forget how to pitch in the playoffs. Just because Pujols and Edmonds didn't play well in the WS last year doesn't mean history will repeat itself. Remember when everyone said Barry Bonds was a playoff choker? He hit almost .500 in the World Series. There is no "proof" the Cardinals will choke in the playoffs.

Will everyone please stop talking about how Pujols didn't show up in the World Series last year? Of our non-existent offense, Pujols hit .333.

Catman61 · August 18, 2005

Pujols, Edmonds, and Rolen didn't show up last year. .

2004 postseason

Pujols

.414 avg

.493 OBP

.793 SLG

1.286 OPS

15 runs

6 HR

14 RBI

Not bad for somebody that "didn't show up"

OldHappyCubFan · August 18, 2005

As a collective group, they did not show up. I look foward to seeing them this year. Not them, I mean Edmonds and Pujols.

Game 1, Pujols was 0-3,

Edmonds 1-4

Rolen 0-5

Game 2.

Pujols 3-4, with 1 run.

Edmonds 0-4

Rolen 0-3

Game 3

Pujols 1-4

Rolen 0-3

Edmonds 0-3

Game 4

Pujols 1-4

Rolen 0-4

Edmonds 0-4

In the World Series, there really wasen't any competition. They did NOT show up. When it counts, All-Star players have to earn their salary. They did not earn anything.

SwisherSweet · August 19, 2005

No kidding. But that's obviously no guarantee that they'll perform exactly the same this year if they make it that far.

WS Prediction.....

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