Clemens,Carpenter, or Willis for Cy Young? (edit)

[Criminal5]

Continuing to look at the stats:

 

WS (updated thru 9/6)

1. Clemens 24

2. Willis 21

3. Oswalt 20

4. Pettite 19

5. Carpenter 19

 

I assume this is including batting too if Carpenter is 5th.

[TruffleShuffle]

Carpenter should have stayed with the Blue Jays... if he were in the AL this year he'd win the award, probably unanimously.

[JGalt73]

Clemens' getting shelled in Milwaukee. 5 ER through 3...

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I'll have to see what it does to Clemens's numbers, but that start tonight could sway me over to the Carpenter camp.

[reggiemiller rules]

I think the last 2 games for each pitcher pretty much decided the award. Carp beat Clemens then went out and pitched 7 scoreless innings. Clemens after losing went out and gave up 5 in 3 innings.

 

i know this stat is based alot on run support, but Clemens now hasnt won in a month and Carp hasnt lost in 3 months. June 8th was his last lost that is amazing.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I cannot believe this thread is 35 premium pages long. I mean, we're talking about Carpenter vs. Clemens, not Carpenter vs. Zambrano or Prior. I don't know if I should be impressed or shocked with you guys.

 

35 pages! :shock:

[wolf stansson]

Frankly, I'm appaled.

[1wizard]

TruffleShuffle wrote:

Carpenter should have stayed with the Blue Jays... if he were in the AL this year he'd win the award, probably unanimously.

 

 

HA!

 

I cannot believe that you are actually conceding that Carpenter is a Cy Young type pitcher in any league based on talent. Usually you chalk up Carp's numbers to the luck of being a Cardinal.

 

Moreover, I personally think Carp will come close to getting all the votes now that Clemens is showing his age and weaknesses.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Clemens ERA rose to 1.78 and Carpenter is at 2.21. While Clemens still has the advantage there, he looked bad last night. I haven't checked the other metrics, but I'm about to slide this one over to Carpenter. There's a few more starts to go, but right now I've swung over to Carpenter.

[gus_dog]

Clemens ERA rose to 1.78 and Carpenter is at 2.21. While Clemens still has the advantage there, he looked bad last night. I haven't checked the other metrics, but I'm about to slide this one over to Carpenter. There's a few more starts to go, but right now I've swung over to Carpenter.

 

Whhhaaaatttt???? But Vance, I thought you were against Carpenter? Uh, I mean, he is a Cardinal..... :wink:

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Clemens ERA rose to 1.78 and Carpenter is at 2.21. While Clemens still has the advantage there, he looked bad last night. I haven't checked the other metrics, but I'm about to slide this one over to Carpenter. There's a few more starts to go, but right now I've swung over to Carpenter.

 

Whhhaaaatttt???? But Vance, I thought you were against Carpenter? Uh, I mean, he is a Cardinal..... :wink:

 

I know you're teasing, but I've always said I hate the Astros and Cardinals equally.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Clemens ERA rose to 1.78 and Carpenter is at 2.21. While Clemens still has the advantage there, he looked bad last night. I haven't checked the other metrics, but I'm about to slide this one over to Carpenter. There's a few more starts to go, but right now I've swung over to Carpenter.

 

Whhhaaaatttt???? But Vance, I thought you were against Carpenter? Uh, I mean, he is a Cardinal..... :wink:

 

I know you're teasing, but I've always said I hate the Astros and Cardinals equally.

 

Don't worry. Once Hendry gets us Johan next year, he'll win the Cy over any Card or Astro.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Clemens ERA rose to 1.78 and Carpenter is at 2.21. While Clemens still has the advantage there, he looked bad last night. I haven't checked the other metrics, but I'm about to slide this one over to Carpenter. There's a few more starts to go, but right now I've swung over to Carpenter.

 

Whhhaaaatttt???? But Vance, I thought you were against Carpenter? Uh, I mean, he is a Cardinal..... :wink:

 

I know you're teasing, but I've always said I hate the Astros and Cardinals equally.

 

Don't worry. Once Hendry gets us Johan next year, he'll win the Cy over any Card or Astro.

 

:wtg:

 

I figure Vlad or Arod will get the MVP for us too.

[K-Town]

Carpenter now leadsd in VORP.

 

Carpenter 78.3

Clemens 77.1

 

 

Interestingly, and suprising to me, Pujols now leads Lee in VORP, just slightly. Of course, that's probably a moot point, because it seems that the MVP Award is Andruw Jones' to lose.

[Tito Landrum]

3 runs for carp in 6 and 1/3 . His ERA will up a bit .

[indifferent]

Not to mention he won't get the win. He could be on the hook for the loss if another run scores this inning.

[Tito Landrum]

Not to mention he won't get the win. He could be on the hook for the loss if another run scores this inning.

tack on another ER for Carp and the game is tied. He's given up more hits tonight I think than all year.

[reggiemiller rules]

Not to mention he won't get the win. He could be on the hook for the loss if another run scores this inning.

tack on another ER for Carp and the game is tied. He's given up more hits tonight I think than all year.

 

Looks like were gonna start hearing the Dontrelle Willis train going on ESPN tonight and tomorrow.

[imb]

Not to mention he won't get the win. He could be on the hook for the loss if another run scores this inning.

tack on another ER for Carp and the game is tied. He's given up more hits tonight I think than all year.

 

Looks like were gonna start hearing the Dontrelle Willis train going on ESPN tonight and tomorrow.

 

Too late.

[Tito Landrum]

cards win in the bottom of the 9th, after an intentional walk to J. Rod, Eckstein drives in Luna from 2nd.

[K-Town]

In my opinion, it was inexcusable for Carpenter to be left in the game after 6 innings & 80 pitches. I'm a big-time Larussa supporter, but I have no clue what he was thinking. Nothing good could happen, at that point, only bad things. And then to bring in a rookie left-hander with Carp's inheritted runners on base....... I can't figure it out. It was a boneheaded move by TLR.

[UK1679666180]

I can't believe LaRussa let him go thru the order 4 times, 91 thru 6 1/3 is way too much at this stage.

[K-Town]

I can't believe LaRussa let him go thru the order 4 times, 91 thru 6 1/3 is way too much at this stage.

 

I completely agree, UK. There's just no reason for it, considering it's a meaningless game, the rosters are expanded (meaning there are plenty of pitchers available), Carpenter has already pitched alot this year, and the Cards had a 3-run lead heading into the 7th.

 

I was hoping that Larussa would have an expanation in the PD this morning, but I don't see anything. Maybe you and I are the only ones questioning it, but there's no justification, in my opinion.

[illiniguy]

I can't believe LaRussa let him go thru the order 4 times, 91 thru 6 1/3 is way too much at this stage.

 

I completely agree, UK. There's just no reason for it, considering it's a meaningless game, the rosters are expanded (meaning there are plenty of pitchers available), Carpenter has already pitched alot this year, and the Cards had a 3-run lead heading into the 7th.

 

I was hoping that Larussa would have an expanation in the PD this morning, but I don't see anything. Maybe you and I are the only ones questioning it, but there's no justification, in my opinion.

well he hasn't been hurt this year and you guys did so well without him last year I could see why Tony would overextend him in a meaningless game. Carp should not throw more than 80 pitches from now until the playoffs, a cy young isn't worth a chance at the world series and if he gets hurt you're toast.

[K-Town]

I can't believe LaRussa let him go thru the order 4 times, 91 thru 6 1/3 is way too much at this stage.

 

I completely agree, UK. There's just no reason for it, considering it's a meaningless game, the rosters are expanded (meaning there are plenty of pitchers available), Carpenter has already pitched alot this year, and the Cards had a 3-run lead heading into the 7th.

 

I was hoping that Larussa would have an expanation in the PD this morning, but I don't see anything. Maybe you and I are the only ones questioning it, but there's no justification, in my opinion.

well he hasn't been hurt this year and you guys did so well without him last year I could see why Tony would overextend him in a meaningless game. Carp should not throw more than 80 pitches from now until the playoffs, a cy young isn't worth a chance at the world series and if he gets hurt you're toast.

 

I agree completely.

 

It would be different if I were second-guessing Larussa AFTER the fact. But I posted on another board, before the 7th inning started, that I thought Carpenter should be taken out, and I didn't understand why he was going back out there. In fact, it wouldn't have broken my heart if he hadn't pitched the 6th.

 

No clue what Larussa was thinking on this one. None.