8-3: Cubs (Williams) @ Phillies (Tejeda) 6:05 CT, CSN+, 720

[Jon]

Wow.

 

Just a bit of nit-picking, but...

 

I've seen a few people mention stepping on home plate to complete the out, but Burrell was automatically out since first base was occupied, no?

 

I wasn't able to see the play and haven't seen the replay yet, so maybe I'm missing something, but stepping on home is a moot point if I'm not mistaken.

The strikeout was out #2. Burrell was not a runner, there was no force at home. It was ruled a PB and should have been a CS...

[JGalt73]

Wow.

 

Just a bit of nit-picking, but...

 

I've seen a few people mention stepping on home plate to complete the out, but Burrell was automatically out since first base was occupied, no?

 

I wasn't able to see the play and haven't seen the replay yet, so maybe I'm missing something, but stepping on home is a moot point if I'm not mistaken.

 

No matter how the rule reads, Barrett was foolish to even throw it to 3rd. And then the throw was bad. And he threw it to 3rd too early...plus, he didn't catch strike 4. There's no way that should have been droppped. It was a fastball. Not a slider.

 

The drop actually drew Rollins off the bag... it would have been a great fake play, kinda like the fumblerooskie... if only, it had worked!

[USSoccer]

I suppose everyone defending Dusty has a good explanation for Remlinger pitching against Rollins (career 4 for 7 against Rem) and a bunch of left handers?

 

Definetly a bad move, but the fact of the matter is that Wuertz had pretty much worked himself out of the jam, had strike 3 been called and Barrett not dropped strike 4.

 

A leadoff double to a fast guy isn't the end of the world. After that AB, Baker walked the next 2, and brought in the RHP to fact Burrell, which was the right move given the situation. Wuertz stuck him out twice, and the game might still be on were it not for a physical error and a mental meltdown from our catcher.

 

It's hard to fault Dusty with the way this game ended. Of the pen guys who were left, Wuertz has control issues at times and isn't great against LH's, Mitre isn't a reliever, and Dempster was unavailable. That left Rem, unfortunatly. Hopefully come Friday this won't be an issue anymore.

[dalgreen]

Terrible terrible "effort". This could be evidence that the team has quit on its inept doofus for a manager.

 

The team? If the team quit we'd be losing a bunch of 10-2 games not one or two run games. Or do you mean Williams and Barrett have quit?

[Balsa]

Barret is in the top 3 for offensive catchers in the NL and top 8 in the ML. Was this a HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE PLAY - yes. Should Barrett now be benched for Blanco - no.

 

If Murton had been catching he would have caught strike three cleanly then made a snap throw to third to double off Rollins. Dusty is just too stupid to use his players correctly.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Satch80]

Mental errors cost this game, not Dusty. He did what he could with the pen available.

Barrett has always been a very poor defensive catcher and always will be. Just depends upon how much defense you want to give up for his bat.

Frankly, with this young, hard throwing staff I would prefer a Matheny type.

[Mark_R]

Terrible terrible "effort". This could be evidence that the team has quit on its inept doofus for a manager.

 

The team? If the team quit we'd be losing a bunch of 10-2 games not one or two run games. Or do you mean Williams and Barrett have quit?

 

This was a terrible effort overall all evening. Those two were the main culprits but Walker made a weak throw on a potential DP which cost outs. Lawton taking a poor route in the ninth that could have been disasterous.

 

This is the kind of "effort" that is indicative of a team quitting.

[J.R.]

Dusty IS at fault. Think of all the stuff that "Dusty Teams" were purported to be all about ... and then realize that this team is the antithesis of most everything he was brought here to enact.

 

It's August, we're in a fight for our season's life and the team played like the lazy, ignorant, goofball outfit he's made it into. By their fruits, ye shall know them ...

[dalgreen]

For all the griping we're doing, let's not forget the 2-2 pitch should've been called strike three. The umps at times have screwed us too.

[rickrolled]

Bad coaching? Give me a break. These guys have been playing baseball almost all of their lives. It's not like they've never been told to cover first base or gone over other basic fundamentals.

 

I'm curious when people who do little but criticize Perez, Macias, Baker, Hollandsworth, etc. will take notice that we have a $3 million catcher who is hardly earning his money. He is one of the few guys I know who hits defensively with men in scoring position. Hey, Barrett, How about yelling, "Get over!", when the ball is hit to the right side. You hear Matheny do it all the time with the Giants. I gave Barrett the benefit of the doubt for far too long. I now see why Felipe Alou said Barrett would never be a major league catcher when he was in Montreal.

 

He's hitting .342 with RISP, so I don't see your point there.

 

Seriously, he made a bad mistake, but you're overreacting.

 

Overreacting? I've been saying this for almost two years. Yeah, he has a .342 avg. with RISP. I'd like a break down on that, because he's 1 for his last 4, I believe (the one being the hit against AZ). Were his hits when the game was on the line or to bring the game closer? All I know is from here on out, watch his at-bats with RISP. And see how many times he gets himself down in the count when it's the pitcher who should have the pressure on him. I'm not one who goes off on guys unnecessarily after a loss, we all know it's too many on here for that, but I've been consistent in my dislike for Barrett and his $3 million/year contract.

 

Maybe he gets down in the count once in awhile, but I still don't see how that really matters, because he still has a .342 BA and a .391 OBP with RISP. Perhaps he looks bad with RISP sometimes, including tonight, but that doesn't change the fact that overall he succeeds in that situation.

[Mark_R]

Dusty IS at fault. Think of all the stuff that "Dusty Teams" were purported to be all about ... and then realize that this team is the antithesis of most everything he was brought here to enact.

 

It's August, we're in a fight for our season's life and the team played like the lazy, ignorant, goofball outfit he's made it into. By their fruits, ye shall know them ...

 

Right on JR. I wanna see the media reaction to this and see if they actually hit Dusty with some legit questions about this horrid effort tonight instead of the usual softball questions and responses that elicit laughter. This was an embarassing effort tonight.

 

And god forbid if someone does call him on this nonsense, watch him go into total defense mode and then say that people like Scoop are correct.

 

I honestly would not be shocked.

[JGalt73]

Bad coaching? Give me a break. These guys have been playing baseball almost all of their lives. It's not like they've never been told to cover first base or gone over other basic fundamentals.

 

I'm curious when people who do little but criticize Perez, Macias, Baker, Hollandsworth, etc. will take notice that we have a $3 million catcher who is hardly earning his money. He is one of the few guys I know who hits defensively with men in scoring position. Hey, Barrett, How about yelling, "Get over!", when the ball is hit to the right side. You hear Matheny do it all the time with the Giants. I gave Barrett the benefit of the doubt for far too long. I now see why Felipe Alou said Barrett would never be a major league catcher when he was in Montreal.

 

He's hitting .342 with RISP, so I don't see your point there.

 

Seriously, he made a bad mistake, but you're overreacting.

 

Overreacting? I've been saying this for almost two years. Yeah, he has a .342 avg. with RISP. I'd like a break down on that, because he's 1 for his last 4, I believe (the one being the hit against AZ). Were his hits when the game was on the line or to bring the game closer? All I know is from here on out, watch his at-bats with RISP. And see how many times he gets himself down in the count when it's the pitcher who should have the pressure on him. I'm not one who goes off on guys unnecessarily after a loss, we all know it's too many on here for that, but I've been consistent in my dislike for Barrett and his $3 million/year contract.

 

I'm also one to go to the numbers when an argument is on the line. I was not expecting to find this, but I feel it'd be unfair to only post numbers that support my side, so... Barrett's numbers

 

Close and late - 57AB, OBP .279; OPS .683

 

Close And Late - results in the 7th inning or later with the batting team either ahead by one run, tied or with the potential tying run at least on deck.

Edited August 4, 2005 by JGalt73

[dalgreen]

Terrible terrible "effort". This could be evidence that the team has quit on its inept doofus for a manager.

 

The team? If the team quit we'd be losing a bunch of 10-2 games not one or two run games. Or do you mean Williams and Barrett have quit?

 

This was a terrible effort overall all evening. Those two were the main culprits but Walker made a weak throw on a potential DP which cost outs. Lawton taking a poor route in the ninth that could have been disasterous.

 

This is the kind of "effort" that is indicative of a team quitting.

 

Those two instances are more indicative than DLee taking a ball to the bad and sliding to make the unassisted play? Or Walker running hard to first on a comebacker to Wagner? Or Jerry Hairston diving in the outfield? Or Neifi, yes, I said Neifi, getting two hits? I think they were just bad plays, period, and not indicative of a team quitting.

[abuck1220]

Dusty IS at fault. Think of all the stuff that "Dusty Teams" were purported to be all about ... and then realize that this team is the antithesis of most everything he was brought here to enact.

 

 

as i mentioned earlier, it's one of those things that dusty himself says so many times people start to believe it. like how larussa kept saying and saying and saying how great pujols is defensively. now every time you watch a cardinal game the announcers talk about how great he is at 1b. or how dusty talks about how he's not used to being home for the postseason, but in reality, he is.

[dalgreen]

Bad coaching? Give me a break. These guys have been playing baseball almost all of their lives. It's not like they've never been told to cover first base or gone over other basic fundamentals.

 

I'm curious when people who do little but criticize Perez, Macias, Baker, Hollandsworth, etc. will take notice that we have a $3 million catcher who is hardly earning his money. He is one of the few guys I know who hits defensively with men in scoring position. Hey, Barrett, How about yelling, "Get over!", when the ball is hit to the right side. You hear Matheny do it all the time with the Giants. I gave Barrett the benefit of the doubt for far too long. I now see why Felipe Alou said Barrett would never be a major league catcher when he was in Montreal.

 

He's hitting .342 with RISP, so I don't see your point there.

 

Seriously, he made a bad mistake, but you're overreacting.

 

Overreacting? I've been saying this for almost two years. Yeah, he has a .342 avg. with RISP. I'd like a break down on that, because he's 1 for his last 4, I believe (the one being the hit against AZ). Were his hits when the game was on the line or to bring the game closer? All I know is from here on out, watch his at-bats with RISP. And see how many times he gets himself down in the count when it's the pitcher who should have the pressure on him. I'm not one who goes off on guys unnecessarily after a loss, we all know it's too many on here for that, but I've been consistent in my dislike for Barrett and his $3 million/year contract.

 

I'm also one to go to the numbers when an argument is on the line. I was not expecting to find this, but I feel it'd be unfair to only post numbers that support my side, so... Barrett's numbers

 

Close and late - 57AB, OBP .279; OPS .683

 

Close And Late - results in the 7th inning or later with the batting team either ahead by one run, tied or with the potential tying run at least on deck.

 

Thanks. It's unusual to see someone post numbers that contradict their side. I appreciate you doing that. But I watch and listen to too many Cub games and knew I was way more disappointed with Barrett with RISP especially in late game action. I like his approach early in games, but it just seems to me that he becomes more anxious and less patient late in games, especially in crucial situations.

[badger1679666666]

lol

 

(at the last 10 pages of this thread)

[genghiskhan]

That has to be one of the weirdest endings I've ever seen. What on earth was Barrett thinking? Isn't he supposed to be good defensively?

[YearofDaCubs]

Sorry, but the players' lack of hustle, lack of fundamentals, first pitch swinging, getting caught off the base is just plain ridiculous. It's becoming an epidemic.

[Balsa]

Dusty has to have a team meeting and go Bobby Knight on them.

[Hacking Out Machine]

That has to be one of the weirdest endings I've ever seen. What on earth was Barrett thinking? Isn't he supposed to be good defensively?

 

I don't know if anyone else has brought this up, but that was a heck of a play by Rollins. Hindsight being 20/20, we all can question Barrett for not running Rollins back to the bag, as I did, but after watching the play again, I changed my mind. After Rollins stopped and began to retreat back to third, his body was facing toward third but he was looking back at Barrett. Generally, in a situation like that, once the player is facing back to the previous base, and the fielder sees his numbers, he assumes the runner has committed back to the previous base. Barrett was obviously excited to get the third out and escape the jam, so he was eager to throw Rollins out. However, Rollins made a quick 180 degree turn rather than committing back to third. Barrett, being excited, started his throw when he saw Rollins turn back to third, only to have Rollins continue his turn all the way back around and dart for home. It was a risky play by Rollins, but a great play.

 

I can see how Barrett would jump the gun there. Rollins was smart enough to play off of that and make a ballsy play. If he doesn't do that, he probably gets thrown out at third. I know Barrett is probably getting hammered for this play, and the right play would have been to run him back, but I can see how he would make the mistake. We should also remember the fantastic stop he made on the wayward Wuertz slider a couple pitches before as well. (I hope this doesn't seem to be too much of a Barrett apology)

[NorthsideAvenger]

Dusty has to have a team meeting and go Bobby Knight on them.

 

Don't hold your breathe......DUDE.

[jjgman21]

yet another game where the Cubs made too many mistakes to win, but also another game in which the umpiring had just as much to do with the outcome as the opposition.

 

you know the difference between the ninth inning tonight and Todd Hollandsworth AB in the ninth at Wrigley the other day? the opposition doesn't need to take a hack at close pitches because they're never called a strikes.

 

another instance is last night. I didn't even think of it at the time because Dempster was melting down, but upon seeing the replays, the 3-2 to Abreu and the 3-2 to Burrell were both called strikes all night.

 

to be honest, when I saw DeMuth was umping first last night (brought to my attention when he blew two calls agains the Cubs) I didn't think we stood much of a chance tonight.

 

oh, to only have to beat one team a night instead of two.

 

For the love of CHRIST. Our lack of fundamentals lost that game, not covering first, not catching the ball. Not the frigging umps. All pitchers were getting some calls and not getting others.

 

first, see the first half of the first sentance I wrote. for that matter, see my rants throughout the thread about the second inning and the Cubs terrible hitting approach, which went directly against Baker's instructions for the game. as far as I know, there can be more than one intervening cause in any outcome.

 

second, that's very noble of you, but you're wrong. aside from a couple corner calls Rusch got, identify one generous strike the Cubs pitchers got tonight. I can name you no fewer than eight very questionable strikes the Phils got, almost all of them in very key situations of the ballgame.

 

and as I challenged you to do before, get back to me when a Cubs batter has a borderline pitch called a ball. fact is, the Walker AB in the middle of our big two run rally was simply taken away by DeMuth with two called strikes that were not strikes, and weren't called strikes on any other batter besides Lawton (with two on and two out) and Burnitz (with one out, the go ahead run on first). the same pitch was called a ball instead of strike three on Lofton right before he moved Rollins to third. fact is, if Walker draws the walk, like he earned, the Cubs go ahead that inning.

 

in one sense I admire you for trying to be such a stand up guy, in another I pity you for your inability to observe.

[erik316wttn]

I was completely optimistic at the beginning of the year, and with each passing day it keeps passing and passing. This stupidity is just making me angry.......

 

 

:wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:

 

That's what happens to the eternal optimist..... they get thier heart ripped out every year. I've stopped being optimistic and have just gone to "hopeful, but not expectant". It's far easier to take games like this that way.

[erik316wttn]

Dusty has to have a team meeting and go Bobby Knight on them.

 

Don't hold your breathe......DUDE.

 

Dusty seems too laid-back for that.

 

This team has quit on him. They look like they don't even care anymore. They're not covering bases, and they're making errors that first year little leaguers know not to make.

 

It's hard to be optimistic about anything when the team doesnt look like they care.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Another interesting way to lose a game. How many different ways to lose have we discovered this year?