Cubs fans who are booing Latroy are classless!!!

[J.R.]

Did it ever cross people's mind that Hawkins was a solid pitcher for the Cubs, he just wasn't a good closer?

 

Look at his stat's with the Cubs

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=5336

 

Those stats are pretty. The emotional scars I incurred while watching his garbage pitching are ugly.

 

The man ruined 2004, plain and simple.

[sweetpeteman]

I wouldn't boo, I would cheer... I mean, he did get us Jerome and Aardsma...

[imb]

Is anyone even paying attention?

 

No one is trying to take away your "right to boo", we're saying that it makes you look like a jack-ass when you do.

 

"BOO HAWKINS, YOU SUCK! BOOOOOO! YOU WEREN'T AS GOOD AS I THOUGHT YOU WOULD BE! BOOO!"

 

It's childish and stupid. But, by all means, go ahead. Just dont get upset when those of us that are made to look like jerks because of your actions don't like it.

 

Fine, so when the Cubs fail to score the runner from 3rd with no outs, or a Cubs pitcher blows a pretty good lead late in the game, you can sit there and sing "kumbaya" while I express my displeasure with thier performance.

 

Yes, because those of us who don't boo obviously are happy when the Cubs struggle.

 

Again, what does booing accomplish? Are the players so stupid they don't understand when they failed and need the fans booing to help them figure it out?

 

In regards to what oldcubsfan mentioned, I really liked Ryan Dempster's quotes on the topic.

 

By that logic, what good would complaining about the Cubs/Hendry/Dusty do on this board? Why even do it if its such a big fat waste of time and won't change anything? NSBB has become popular enough now to where some of the people affiliated with the Cubs have read it. Do you think posting your displeasure on an internet message board is going to change things, either?

 

Not a flame, Raisin, I'm just trying to make a point.

 

Maybe I'm misreading you, but do you really think that all the complaining on this board about Dusty and the Cubs matters to the organization? Do you truly think a business decision is made because of posts on this board?

 

You are misreading me. I'm saying that's NOT the case. Raisin said something to the effect of "booing won't help a player become better" and I said "well, by that logic posting about something you dislike in the Cubs orgaization on this board won't make things better, either, so what's the point?"

 

Booing isnt quite the same as having a discussion, either, so that makes no sense.

 

How many discussions here remain 100 percent civil? This one certainly hasn't.

 

An uncivil discussion is still a lot better than "BOOOOOOOO".

[YearofDaCubs]

Yeah, Hawkins took a paycut to come here my ass. He was paid a pretty penny, and it cost us a 1st round pick.

[Larry Horse]

I finally must post on this. First off, LaTroy is on ANOTHER TEAM. Not the Cubs. Why it would bother a Cub fan to see an opposing player being booed is beyond me.

 

LaTroy himself said it's like my mama said, not everyone is going to like me, it's something I have to deal with. I don't really care if the fans boo me. That was said while he was here. If HE doesn't care, why does he need players FROM AN OPPOSING TEAM defending him.

 

Latroy himself said I don't play for the fans. Hmmmm, that would be grounds enough for a major bashing in my book. FYI, we pay your salary.

 

Now Dusty has said I've seen Corey and LaTroy being booed. It never really happened before I got here. What does that tell you Dusty? It tells me that the retirement home for players that was Wrigley Field is over. Fans are now EXPECTING a winner, and not going to games to have a few beers and enjoy the sunshine. And what do LaTroy and Corey have in common? THEY BOTH SUCKED THIS YEAR.

 

And what's with this quote about Dusty saying that players ask him if it's always this tough at Wrigley. Hey Dusty, this just happened in the last week so I doubt if your phone has been ringing off the hook from potential free agents inquiring about the brutal Wrigley Field playing conditions. And why are you talking to other players anyway? Isn't that considered tampering? And where are these big name free agents that were going to run to Wrigley's front door to play for Dusty?

 

Oh and the next time Derek Lee feels the need to rail on the fans, he might want to think about who it was that voted him into the starting lineup of the all star game, earning him a big bonus. I THINK IT WAS THE VERY FANS HE WAS COMPLAINING ABOUT.

 

I have never been prouder of my fellow Cub fans. Finally they are demanding more. If a player doesn't want to play for the Cubs because the fans are too tough, GREAT. I don't want that kind of player on the roster anyway.

 

I wonder what would happen in New York, Boston, Atlanta or anywhere else where the players and manager told the fans to stop booing. I doubt it would fly.

 

Enough of the crying about the treatment of Hawkins. If there was racially motivated comments or comments about his family, then that is too far. If not, shut up and take it. If I remember correctly, didn't Hundley get booed about every time he came to the plate? Good lord, what a waste of time over this guy.

[YearofDaCubs]

I finally must post on this. First off, LaTroy is on ANOTHER TEAM. Not the Cubs. Why it would bother a Cub fan to see an opposing player being booed is beyond me.

 

LaTroy himself said it's like my mama said, not everyone is going to like me, it's something I have to deal with. I don't really care if the fans boo me. That was said while he was here. If HE doesn't care, why does he need players FROM AN OPPOSING TEAM defending him.

 

Latroy himself said I don't play for the fans. Hmmmm, that would be grounds enough for a major bashing in my book. FYI, we pay your salary.

 

Now Dusty has said I've seen Corey and LaTroy being booed. It never really happened before I got here. What does that tell you Dusty? It tells me that the retirement home for players that was Wrigley Field is over. Fans are now EXPECTING a winner, and not going to games to have a few beers and enjoy the sunshine. And what do LaTroy and Corey have in common? THEY BOTH SUCKED THIS YEAR.

 

And what's with this quote about Dusty saying that players ask him if it's always this tough at Wrigley. Hey Dusty, this just happened in the last week so I doubt if your phone has been ringing off the hook from potential free agents inquiring about the brutal Wrigley Field playing conditions. And why are you talking to other players anyway? Isn't that considered tampering? And where are these big name free agents that were going to run to Wrigley's front door to play for Dusty?

 

Oh and the next time Derek Lee feels the need to rail on the fans, he might want to think about who it was that voted him into the starting lineup of the all star game, earning him a big bonus. I THINK IT WAS THE VERY FANS HE WAS COMPLAINING ABOUT.

 

I have never been prouder of my fellow Cub fans. Finally they are demanding more. If a player doesn't want to play for the Cubs because the fans are too tough, GREAT. I don't want that kind of player on the roster anyway.

 

I wonder what would happen in New York, Boston, Atlanta or anywhere else where the players and manager told the fans to stop booing. I doubt it would fly.

 

Enough of the crying about the treatment of Hawkins. If there was racially motivated comments or comments about his family, then that is too far. If not, shut up and take it. If I remember correctly, didn't Hundley get booed about every time he came to the plate? Good lord, what a waste of time over this guy.

I agree with you 100%.

[XZero771679666304]

Did it ever cross people's mind that Hawkins was a solid pitcher for the Cubs, he just wasn't a good closer?

 

Look at his stat's with the Cubs

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=5336

 

Those stats are pretty. The emotional scars I incurred while watching his garbage pitching are ugly.

 

The man ruined 2004, plain and simple.

 

If you had a brain tumor and when you went in for the operation the hospital administrations ordered a pediotrist to perform the operation instead of a neurosurgeon and it killed you, who would be to blame, the podiatrist or the hospital admin?

 

Hawkins was never meant to be a closer, and for good reason. Baker and injuries ruined 2004, and Baker is doing his best to ruin 2005. Hawkins sucked, but he sucked at a job he should never have been doing, and that is not his fault. Blaming him is easy, but the real problem is bigger than he is.

[J.R.]

Did it ever cross people's mind that Hawkins was a solid pitcher for the Cubs, he just wasn't a good closer?

 

Look at his stat's with the Cubs

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=5336

 

Those stats are pretty. The emotional scars I incurred while watching his garbage pitching are ugly.

 

The man ruined 2004, plain and simple.

 

If you had a brain tumor and when you went in for the operation the hospital administrations ordered a pediotrist to perform the operation instead of a neurosurgeon and it killed you, who would be to blame, the podiatrist or the hospital admin?

 

Hawkins was never meant to be a closer, and for good reason. Baker and injuries ruined 2004, and Baker is doing his best to ruin 2005. Hawkins sucked, but he sucked at a job he should never have been doing, and that is not his fault. Blaming him is easy, but the real problem is bigger than he is.

 

I'm a Dustybuster all the way. But Hawkins was the one throwing meatballs in crucial situations.

 

I think the surgery comparison is a stretch.

[XZero771679666304]

I don't agree with booing, but if people are going to do it they should excercise some brain power when they do it. Booing the players is stupid and pointless, especially with this team. It will not improve anyone's performance, and makes no difference whatsoever. Now if the people who were out there booing and heckling had brain one in their heads, they'd boo Dusty Baker. Boo him mercileesly. Show Hendry that everyone knows that Dusty's managing is hurting the team. LaTroy, Corey...both poor performances can be directly or indirectly attruibuted to Baker's mismanagement.

 

People are so eager to boo, but they are booing the wrong people. Lambasting Baker may make some kind of difference. Booing the players will never have any positive effect.

[J.R.]

boo Dusty Baker. Boo him mercileesly. Show Hendry that everyone knows that Dusty's managing is hurting the team.

 

I agree 100%.

[XZero771679666304]

Did it ever cross people's mind that Hawkins was a solid pitcher for the Cubs, he just wasn't a good closer?

 

Look at his stat's with the Cubs

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=5336

 

Those stats are pretty. The emotional scars I incurred while watching his garbage pitching are ugly.

 

The man ruined 2004, plain and simple.

 

If you had a brain tumor and when you went in for the operation the hospital administrations ordered a pediotrist to perform the operation instead of a neurosurgeon and it killed you, who would be to blame, the podiatrist or the hospital admin?

 

Hawkins was never meant to be a closer, and for good reason. Baker and injuries ruined 2004, and Baker is doing his best to ruin 2005. Hawkins sucked, but he sucked at a job he should never have been doing, and that is not his fault. Blaming him is easy, but the real problem is bigger than he is.

 

I'm a Dustybuster all the way. But Hawkins was the one throwing meatballs in crucial situations.

 

I think the surgery comparison is a stretch.

 

Because Hawkins is mentally impaired in pressure situations, and everyone knew that prior to last year.

 

I would bet the ranch that if Hawkins had remained a setup guy and never set foot in the closer's role, we would all love the guy and he'd still be a fixture in the bullpen. LaTroy was a filthy and dominant setup man, but a piss poor closer. I don't know why Dusty had to ruin the guy and our playoff chances just to learn what everyone else already knew.

 

If I had to assign blame for the Hawkins-as-closer fiasco, I'd assign it this way:

 

Hawkins 5%

Hendry 15%

Baker 80%

[Mark_R]

I don't agree with booing, but if people are going to do it they should excercise some brain power when they do it. Booing the players is stupid and pointless, especially with this team. It will not improve anyone's performance, and makes no difference whatsoever. Now if the people who were out there booing and heckling had brain one in their heads, they'd boo Dusty Baker. Boo him mercileesly. Show Hendry that everyone knows that Dusty's managing is hurting the team. LaTroy, Corey...both poor performances can be directly or indirectly attruibuted to Baker's mismanagement.

 

People are so eager to boo, but they are booing the wrong people. Lambasting Baker may make some kind of difference. Booing the players will never have any positive effect.

 

How do you know that all the times Hawkins came into the game it wasn't also directed at Dusty Baker?

 

Did you poll the Wrigley fans booing to get an accurate assessment on this? I'm guessing no. I booed Hawkins, but my venom also lied with Baker for bringing in a guy who was likely to lose us the game.

[XZero771679666304]

I don't agree with booing, but if people are going to do it they should excercise some brain power when they do it. Booing the players is stupid and pointless, especially with this team. It will not improve anyone's performance, and makes no difference whatsoever. Now if the people who were out there booing and heckling had brain one in their heads, they'd boo Dusty Baker. Boo him mercileesly. Show Hendry that everyone knows that Dusty's managing is hurting the team. LaTroy, Corey...both poor performances can be directly or indirectly attruibuted to Baker's mismanagement.

 

People are so eager to boo, but they are booing the wrong people. Lambasting Baker may make some kind of difference. Booing the players will never have any positive effect.

 

How do you know that all the times Hawkins came into the game it wasn't also directed at Dusty Baker?

 

Did you poll the Wrigley fans booing to get an accurate assessment on this? I'm guessing no. I booed Hawkins, but my venom also lied with Baker for bringing in a guy who was likely to lose us the game.

 

Well, there seems to be quite a bit of support for Baker from the casual fan. It seems to me that if fans use up all that energy to chant "Hawkins" and "Hawkins sucks" after he's on another team, and not specifially boo Baker in the same fashoin, their vitriol is quite misplaced.

[Mark_R]

I don't agree with booing, but if people are going to do it they should excercise some brain power when they do it. Booing the players is stupid and pointless, especially with this team. It will not improve anyone's performance, and makes no difference whatsoever. Now if the people who were out there booing and heckling had brain one in their heads, they'd boo Dusty Baker. Boo him mercileesly. Show Hendry that everyone knows that Dusty's managing is hurting the team. LaTroy, Corey...both poor performances can be directly or indirectly attruibuted to Baker's mismanagement.

 

People are so eager to boo, but they are booing the wrong people. Lambasting Baker may make some kind of difference. Booing the players will never have any positive effect.

 

How do you know that all the times Hawkins came into the game it wasn't also directed at Dusty Baker?

 

Did you poll the Wrigley fans booing to get an accurate assessment on this? I'm guessing no. I booed Hawkins, but my venom also lied with Baker for bringing in a guy who was likely to lose us the game.

 

Well, there seems to be quite a bit of support for Baker from the casual fan. It seems to me that if fans use up all that energy to chant "Hawkins" and "Hawkins sucks" after he's on another team, and not specifially boo Baker in the same fashoin, their vitriol is quite misplaced.

 

How can you make that assessment on Baker being supported by the casual fan? Based on what?

 

Guess what? Hawkins is no longer a member of this team. He plays for the Giants. He's fair game now completely. I'd love it if the fans would chant the pitchers' names all the time to get into their heads. In that regard, it would be a huge boost in home field advantage.

[XZero771679666304]

I don't agree with booing, but if people are going to do it they should excercise some brain power when they do it. Booing the players is stupid and pointless, especially with this team. It will not improve anyone's performance, and makes no difference whatsoever. Now if the people who were out there booing and heckling had brain one in their heads, they'd boo Dusty Baker. Boo him mercileesly. Show Hendry that everyone knows that Dusty's managing is hurting the team. LaTroy, Corey...both poor performances can be directly or indirectly attruibuted to Baker's mismanagement.

 

People are so eager to boo, but they are booing the wrong people. Lambasting Baker may make some kind of difference. Booing the players will never have any positive effect.

 

How do you know that all the times Hawkins came into the game it wasn't also directed at Dusty Baker?

 

Did you poll the Wrigley fans booing to get an accurate assessment on this? I'm guessing no. I booed Hawkins, but my venom also lied with Baker for bringing in a guy who was likely to lose us the game.

 

Well, there seems to be quite a bit of support for Baker from the casual fan. It seems to me that if fans use up all that energy to chant "Hawkins" and "Hawkins sucks" after he's on another team, and not specifially boo Baker in the same fashoin, their vitriol is quite misplaced.

 

How can you make that assessment on Baker being supported by the casual fan? Based on what?

 

Guess what? Hawkins is no longer a member of this team. He plays for the Giants. He's fair game now completely. I'd love it if the fans would chant the pitchers' names all the time to get into their heads. In that regard, it would be a huge boost in home field advantage.

 

The very fact that Hawkins is on another team should be a reason to boo him less, not more. I have a novel idea, whit not cheer for the Cubs during a rally and not boo and heckle the opposing pitcher? I don't think booing Hawkins got into his head any more than a roaring crowd would have.

 

And at a game, I would estimate that at least 7 out of 10 fans I have talked to don't know who may be better options on the bench, or what a player's statistical trends are, or the finer points of why or why not a player like LaTroy Hawkins should or should not be closer. What they do seem to know is that the Cubs have had back to back winning seasons, and that has coincided with Baker's arrival. To the casual fan, especially the perpetually drunk 20-somethings in the crowd, all that is important is who is winning, who is doing well at that moment, who is/is not popular, and where the beer vendor is. From what I have seen these comprise the vast majority of the booers and hecklers. They seem to view the game in the most general of terms.

 

Now I haven't been to Wrigley since late last year, but I doubt things have changed that much.

[Satch80]

I watched the Houston/Mets game today. The Houston fans booed Beltran every time he came to bat and every time he made a play in the field. EVERY time.

Now this is a guy who didn't sign with them but stil helped get them to the playoffs and almost to the WS. And we're worried about booing Hawkins?

Give me a break.

[XZero771679666304]

I watched the Houston/Mets game today. The Houston fans booed Beltran every time he came to bat and every time he made a play in the field. EVERY time.

Now this is a guy who didn't sign with them but stil helped get them to the playoffs and almost to the WS. And we're worried about booing Hawkins?

Give me a break.

 

Again, it isn't the booing that bothered some people, but the escalation to "Hawkins sucks" that seemed to be a bit too much.

 

And Boras and Beltran kept Houston hostage all offseason by misleading them, and effectively handicapped the team going into the 2005 season by keeping them preoccupied until the offseason was all but over. He and his agent intentionally decieved the team and lied to the fans. That is far worse than what Hawkins did, IMO.

[Mark_R]

I watched the Houston/Mets game today. The Houston fans booed Beltran every time he came to bat and every time he made a play in the field. EVERY time.

Now this is a guy who didn't sign with them but stil helped get them to the playoffs and almost to the WS. And we're worried about booing Hawkins?

Give me a break.

 

Again, it isn't the booing that bothered some people, but the escalation to "Hawkins sucks" that seemed to be a bit too much.

 

And Boras and Beltran kept Houston hostage all offseason by misleading them, and effectively handicapped the team going into the 2005 season by keeping them preoccupied until the offseason was all but over. He and his agent intentionally decieved the team and lied to the fans. That is far worse than what Hawkins did, IMO.

 

Absolutely right. Holding a team hostage going into the season is better than blowing big game after big game down the stretch.

 

How did he mislead them, btw?

[XZero771679666304]

I watched the Houston/Mets game today. The Houston fans booed Beltran every time he came to bat and every time he made a play in the field. EVERY time.

Now this is a guy who didn't sign with them but stil helped get them to the playoffs and almost to the WS. And we're worried about booing Hawkins?

Give me a break.

 

Again, it isn't the booing that bothered some people, but the escalation to "Hawkins sucks" that seemed to be a bit too much.

 

And Boras and Beltran kept Houston hostage all offseason by misleading them, and effectively handicapped the team going into the 2005 season by keeping them preoccupied until the offseason was all but over. He and his agent intentionally decieved the team and lied to the fans. That is far worse than what Hawkins did, IMO.

 

Absolutely right. Holding a team hostage going into the season is better than blowing big game after big game down the stretch.

 

How did he mislead them, btw?

 

By saying he didn't want to play in New York, He wanted to stay in Houston, money wasn't the key issue, he forsaw staying in Houston etc. etc. etc. And after at the 11th hour the Astros proposed a deal which was rejected, but turned out to be nearly identical to the one he signed with the Mets, whom he supposedly didn't want to play for at all. Then Boras straight out lied and said the deals weren't comparable and the Astros bid was too late, though Drayton McLane vehemently contradicted that. And yes, it was worse. All Dusty had to do was switch closers. The Astros had a full blown personnel crisis.

 

And I don't know why this is so hard for some people to grasp, but all that needed to happen was for Baker to pull LaTroy from the closer's role when it was clear he couldn't do it. He never could, and never should have been given the opportunity. If you are trying to drive in a nail with a screwdriver, at what point to you stop blaming the screwdriver and start blaming it's wielder? It's not like LaTroy was great closer with an awesome track record who inexplicably choked in the biggest games. He was always bad as a closer, and NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN USED. When are people going to start pointing the finger at the right person(s)?

[Flames24Rulz]

here's what i have to say about it.

 

The guy was exceptional as a setup man last year. His ERA when working the 8th inning was nuts if i remember right. That 9th inning freaking killed him though every time and for that i blame Dusty for knowing that he wasn't a good closer, yet he kept sending him out there to close out games.

 

I didn't have a problem with Hawkins himself until he started criticizing the fans and pretty much generalizing all the fans into one group. Yes i know he received hate mail and all of that, but for the Cubs fans that supported him, it was a slap in the face to us when he said "i only play for my teammates and the manager." I lost a lot of respect for the guy there and ever since could care less about him.

 

Let the fans boo him. The guy was a jerk to the media and to us, the fans of the Cubs. He had a reason to be mad at a very select FEW fans that sent him the hate mail. It's not like 99% of the Cubs fan base called him vulgar names and sent him hate mail. Pretty much, the way how he generalized all the idiotic fans into the whole fan base was what upset me the most.

[GaryWoods]

I don't feel bad for Hawkins. He got paid way more for the one inning he pitched the other night than I'll make all year. Plus he should expect some backlash for his inflamatory remarks about the fans.

 

The guy I feel bad for is the one who brought his family to see their first ball game and got stuck in the middle of that crap. How do you explain that kind of behavior to a little kid?

 

Who gives a crap how it affects the millionaires on the field? People need to think about how their actions may affect the person next to them. It won't happen, though. Our society has become way to selfish to think about silly things like respect.

[YearofDaCubs]

I dont always agree with Mariotti but hes on the money on this one.

 

http://www.suntimes.com/output/mariotti/cst-spt-jay29.html

[rocket]

I don't feel bad for Hawkins. He got paid way more for the one inning he pitched the other night than I'll make all year. Plus he should expect some backlash for his inflamatory remarks about the fans.

 

The guy I feel bad for is the one who brought his family to see their first ball game and got stuck in the middle of that crap. How do you explain that kind of behavior to a little kid?

 

Who gives a crap how it affects the millionaires on the field? People need to think about how their actions may affect the person next to them. It won't happen, though. Our society has become way to selfish to think about silly things like respect.

 

so it's okay if a millionaire gets his (or her's, controversy) feelings hurt, but an entirely different story of "joe schmoe" gets his feelings hurt? that's ridiculous and selfish.

[Chocolate Milk]

I don't feel bad for Hawkins. He got paid way more for the one inning he pitched the other night than I'll make all year. Plus he should expect some backlash for his inflamatory remarks about the fans.

 

The guy I feel bad for is the one who brought his family to see their first ball game and got stuck in the middle of that crap. How do you explain that kind of behavior to a little kid?

 

Who gives a crap how it affects the millionaires on the field? People need to think about how their actions may affect the person next to them. It won't happen, though. Our society has become way to selfish to think about silly things like respect.

 

so it's okay if a millionaire gets his (or her's, controversy) feelings hurt, but an entirely different story of "joe schmoe" gets his feelings hurt? that's ridiculous and selfish.

 

I agree. We shouldn't cheer for wins either or for errors because it hurts the players feelings.

 

It's unfathomable this has reached 9 pages.

[J.R.]

Mariotti[/url]"]Just take your toothpicks, wristbands and perpetual pout and head to a nice, safe broadcast booth somewhere.

 

Mariotti[/url]"]What do Baker, Lee and Dempster --who've spent all of seven seasons among them in Cubdom -- know about the pain of the fans? How dare these newcomers psychoanalyze and belittle people who've suffered with this franchise just as their parents suffered, their grandparents suffered and their great-grandparents suffered. I've always been amazed Cubs fans don't boo a hell of a lot more. Yankees fans booed Derek Jeter last year. Red Sox fans are killing Manny Ramirez, the reigning World Series MVP, for his latest spell of discontent. When a team hasn't won a Series in 97 years, fans should be booing when they're walking through the turnstiles.

 

Mariotti[/url]"]The Cubs are the clueless ones, starting with a manager whose contract expires in 15 months.

 

Awesome column.