Cubs real close to getting Dunn (Shot down by Bruce Miles)

[nilodnayr]

Plus, Barrett does much better outside of the 8-hole.. Seems he loses any concept of patience when he's down there..

 

Ah, well. It'd sure be a good problem to have... :)

 

he does it on purpose, you dont want your 8 hitter taking a bunch of walks for the pitcher to make the last out in the inning. Thats exactly why I want him there, hes a smart enough hitter to realize that you need to take a different approach based on where you hit...just look at his stats last year hitting second. He took more walks, but it affected his batting average. I think Barrett is a great 8 hitter...especially with the rest of that lineup.

 

I dont want Barrett making the last out, thats dumb. You dont want the pitcher batting leadoff.

 

You want to know what is dumb? Squandering scoring chances with men on base by letting the pitcher hit, rather than a guy with a 280 average.

[sporrer17]

See, that's what I'm thinking. Murton as a RH hitter off the bench makes sense...and if he's going to stay here, he's got to get some ABs, and if we somehow managed to acquire Dunn, he wouldn't get any time in LF.

 

Maybe this is why we traded for Gerut. We needed that 4th/5th OF in case we acquire another one, so that Murton can be sent back down. That would leave us with 2 LH hitting backup OFs...and no real RH options off the pine. Maybe they would call up a McClain or Kelton type just to help out the bench...or just stick with what we've got as far as bench help and let Murton sit around all year waiting for ABs...idk

[sporrer17]

You want to know what is dumb? Squandering scoring chances with men on base by letting the pitcher hit, rather than a guy with a 280 average.

 

I'm trying to figure out where you're coming from on this one...and I just can't do it. So you're saying we should have our 8 hitter try to put the ball in play rather than take a walk so the pitcher can make the last out.

 

I guess if you think you have a better chance starting the next inning with a pinch hitter than your leadoff man, it's okay. However, I'd prefer my pitcher to end the inning and go with the leadoff hitter the next inning.

[nilodnayr]

See, that's what I'm thinking. Murton as a RH hitter off the bench makes sense...and if he's going to stay here, he's got to get some ABs, and if we somehow managed to acquire Dunn, he wouldn't get any time in LF.

 

Maybe this is why we traded for Gerut. We needed that 4th/5th OF in case we acquire another one, so that Murton can be sent back down. That would leave us with 2 LH hitting backup OFs...and no real RH options off the pine. Maybe they would call up a McClain or Kelton type just to help out the bench...or just stick with what we've got as far as bench help and let Murton sit around all year waiting for ABs...idk

 

Well, Im guessing Holla might get traded for Felix Rodriguez based on the redundency (haha, that just made me think of The Office (British version). But yes, we would definitly need a RH on the bench. I wish I could trust Kelton, but hes hitting a very empty 300 in Iowa. And I dont trust McClain against ML pitching. I'd love to send Murton back down to get more reps, but I think hes needed on the ML team, plus the experience and exposure to a higher level of pitching might be even more beneficial to his development.

[nilodnayr]

You want to know what is dumb? Squandering scoring chances with men on base by letting the pitcher hit, rather than a guy with a 280 average.

 

I'm trying to figure out where you're coming from on this one...and I just can't do it. So you're saying we should have our 8 hitter try to put the ball in play rather than take a walk so the pitcher can make the last out.

 

I guess if you think you have a better chance starting the next inning with a pinch hitter than your leadoff man, it's okay. However, I'd prefer my pitcher to end the inning and go with the leadoff hitter the next inning.

 

No, no, no. Go back and read again. I'm FOR having the 8 hitter not be as patient (ala not taking as many walks, hence not conserving outs) because the batter hitting behind him (the pitcher) is virtually guaranteed to make an out. Therefore, should there be men on base, I want my 8 hitter to put the ball in play and try to drive in the man on base rather than walk and let the pitcher get an easy out. Yes, you will end up with the pitcher leading off the inning slightly more, but Id much rather have the pitcher make the first out in an inning than the last out with two men on base. Its not a question of allowing outs as much as its a question of WHEN you allow the outs. By they way, I hate these small sample sizes but Barrett is hitting 326 with men on and two outs this year

[nilodnayr]

Bob!!!! Just the person I need...back me up on this!

[sporrer17]

No I fully understand what you're saying. I didn't get that this was meant to be in a situation with men on base already. Either way, I'm all for my #8 hitter (or any hitter for that matter) getting on base in any way he can. You never know what can happen, with just a little luck on your side, your pitcher (especially our starters) could hit a double and score the guy...

[nilodnayr]

No I fully understand what you're saying. I didn't get that this was meant to be in a situation with men on base already. Either way, I'm all for my #8 hitter (or any hitter for that matter) getting on base in any way he can. You never know what can happen, with just a little luck on your side, your pitcher (especially our starters) could hit a double and score the guy...

 

Well theres always luck, but if you want to look at probabilities you are going to have a much better chance driving in runs with your 8 hitter than your pitcher.

[TruffleShuffle]

Do you post on any other message boards, out of curiosity? If you do, what's your screen name on those boards?

 

He posted on ESPN boards, and his screen name was davemason2k :P

[nilodnayr]

Do you post on any other message boards, out of curiosity? If you do, what's your screen name on those boards?

 

He posted on ESPN boards, and his screen name was davemason2k :P

 

No no no, it was dovemason2k :D

[Letemburn5]

EDIT! Edited July 20, 2005 by Letemburn5

[NorthsideAvenger]

I dont post much either, but when I read that last one it was one of the best things I have ever read. That being said I dont see this trade happening untill the series is over. It would be a little awkward to trade guys in the middle of a series, so it looks like we will all have to wait more then a few days to find out if this is true:

 

I agree with the poster here. Now everybody knows Dunn is SUPREMELY unhappy in Cincy, especially since his best friend, Austin Kearns was demoted, but in no way would the Reds trade Dunn till after the series, if at all. Would you trade say.....Derrick Lee to the Astros in the middle of a four game set? Of course not. You would wait till the end of the series to make the trade. So, IF this is a DUNN deal, it will done AFTER the series, and not before.

[Letemburn5]

Did say 48 hours didnt he? That will leave 2 days in which the Cincy series will be over. All the pieces are coming together 8)

[imb]

Plus, Barrett does much better outside of the 8-hole.. Seems he loses any concept of patience when he's down there..

 

Ah, well. It'd sure be a good problem to have... :)

 

he does it on purpose, you dont want your 8 hitter taking a bunch of walks for the pitcher to make the last out in the inning. Thats exactly why I want him there, hes a smart enough hitter to realize that you need to take a different approach based on where you hit...just look at his stats last year hitting second. He took more walks, but it affected his batting average. I think Barrett is a great 8 hitter...especially with the rest of that lineup.

 

I dont want Barrett making the last out, thats dumb. You dont want the pitcher batting leadoff.

 

You want to know what is dumb? Squandering scoring chances with men on base by letting the pitcher hit, rather than a guy with a 280 average.

 

What are you talking about? It's ridiculous to want your 8 hitter to swing at bad pitches, just so your pitcher doesnt come up with men on base. Are you serious? Not only are you blowing your chance at scoring runs in that particular inning, youre handicapping yourself into having only 2 outs to play with in the next inning.

[hawkeyecub]

Even if this is true (which I doubt) the earliest the Reds would trade Dunn to the Cubs would be Thursday night-Friday. There's no way they let him play his first game as a Cub against them.

 

We'll see what happens here, I just don't see it.

[Guest]

Bob!!!! Just the person I need...back me up on this!

I'm going to assume this was directed at me, so I'll throw in my 2¢ here...

 

For the most part I'd agree with sporrer on this one. The #8 spot is unique (at least in the NL) in that it has the most pronounced "protection" factor amongst all the lineup slots. #8 hitters tend to get pitched around more than any other hitter because the guy in the on-deck circle is pretty much guaranteed to be the easiest out in the lineup. I wouldn't necessarily call it patience, but I'd definitely want someone with good selectivity and good contact skills in the 8th slot. (You don't want your #8 hitter to be an easy out because he'll swing at all the junk the pitcher is likely to feed him.) It's much better for him to walk and take the chance that the pitcher (or PH) will make something happen than it is for him to strike out or hit a weak grounder because he's swinging at bad pitches.

 

In summary, the #8 hitter probably shouldn't go up to the plate looking for a walk, but if that's what the opposing pitcher is giving him I definitely want him to take it.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

I am on record as not wanting to move Rich Hill unless absolutely, positively necessary.

 

But honestly--Patterson is a wash-out, and Mitre is not consistent enough to crack our top 5 pitchers. So if you can move those two and only need to add in Hill to get a LH hitting, 25 year old guy with 40 HR/100 RBI production, and consistent 380+ OBP, gee whiz, of course you make this trade.

 

And frankly, it would be pretty good for Cincy too, I don't know that they're going to get a package better than that. Two young guys that will immediately join their starting rotation, that's high value.

 

Now, you REALLY want to make me happy?? Tell me what total package I need to offer Cincinnati to get both Dunn AND Kearns. Or if I just can't have Kearns, how about Dunn and Ryan Wagner?

 

I'd like to include the just-acquired Jody Gerut to Patterson/Mitre/Hill, and you get me both outfielders. That would be sweeeeet.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

I want to see Novoa and Dunn duke it out for the rights to #44. :lol:

 

 

 

The only player I'd be sad to let go is Rich Hill. CPat and Mitre have had their shots and they're just not good enough in present form.

[Fro]

This makes a lot of sense for the Reds. They can probably get Patterson straightened out (and surely he'll listen to Ken Griffey, Jr.). Mitre immediately steps in to their rotation and gives them the sinker-baller they need. Hill probably starts for the Reds right away as well.

 

If they can pick up another arm to go with Harang (who's okay), they'd have a pretty decent rotation on paper.

 

We don't have room for any of those guys in the short term (Rusch is a good 6th starter), and while Hill may turn out to be an ace, we don't have room for him until 2007 as a starter.

Edited July 20, 2005 by Fro

[CubinNY]

I will believe it when I see it.

 

This is one of those too-good-to-be-true info-mercials. "I made $345,000 last year buying and selling realestate with no money down".

 

No offense, but this guy's first post here and he posts this. Yeah right.

 

Then again I was poo-pooing the Nomar trade up until it actually happened, so you never know.

 

I vote to ban him now and if the trade happens unban him and make him king of transactions usurping Hoops.

 

The king is dead!

Long live the king!

[Tracer Bullet]

Did anyone else hear Jayson Stark on Mike & Mike this morning? They mentioned Dunn and Stark said the Reds demanded 2 ML players (pitcher & position player) and 2 Minor-leaguers (best pitching prospect & best position prospect) from teams calling about him.

 

I am not trying to say that the source is wrong (I hope he isn't), but this package (Patterson, Hill, Mitre) wouldn't qualify as what Stark claims that the Red's want.

 

One more thing from Stark - he said Dunn would love to play in Houston and if the trade between Houston and Cincy went down, he would have signed there long term. I'm worried that we're giving up 2 pitching prospects (esp Hill - a lefty with a great K rate) for a couple years of Dunn before he eventually signs with the Astros.

[dime]

the only worry is that dunn is likely as good as he's going to get...so banking on improvements in his performance is not a good idea.

 

that said, he'd be a real nice #5/6 hitter to pencil in even if he doesn't get any better for the next 3-4 years.

Edited July 20, 2005 by dime

[TruffleShuffle]

Here's the thing I don't get. Patterson has been so bad this year that he'll likely be overpaid next year. The Reds don't spend all that much money, although their crooked owner has gobs of it. If they want a young outfielder who is major-league ready or at least close to it, why not demand Murton, a guy who hasn't been a complete bust this year? They'd definitely save money trading Dunn, but really wouldn't save as much if they acquired Patterson. Unless their coaches see something they think can be pretty easily fixed, I don't see why the Reds would want him.

[Tedward]

Here's the thing I don't get. Patterson has been so bad this year that he'll likely be overpaid next year. The Reds don't spend all that much money, although their crooked owner has gobs of it. If they want a young outfielder who is major-league ready or at least close to it, why not demand Murton, a guy who hasn't been a complete bust this year? They'd definitely save money trading Dunn, but really wouldn't save as much if they acquired Patterson. Unless their coaches see something they think can be pretty easily fixed, I don't see why the Reds would want him.

 

I think your last sentence is on to something. If the Reds can rehabilitate Corey in the second half, they might be able to flip Corey for another starting pitcher this offseason...

[Schwarber Fan]

Oh Please...Oh Please

 

http://www.bleyz.com/cubsfun/images/dunn_chicub.jpg