7/15 Cubs(Wood) vs. Pirates(Fogg) 1:20 CSN. Puhleeze

[illiniguy]

ok lets win 1 of 1 tomorrow.

[Blueheart05]

Steve Stone is a huge Cubs fan. It is blatantly obvious that he still wished he could watch them everyday.

 

It's also obvious that he loves to take shots at them to get a reaction. Have you listened to some of his commentary on the Score (if not check out the Score audibles section of 670thescore.com)? There is never a need to sugar coat analysis however, going out of one's way to be nasty isn't necessary. I do agree that he is still a fan but so is Mike Murphy and he dogs the Cubs on a nightly basis.

[JonnyRed]

Williams is a strter, and he's pitching better than Mitre or Rusch. He has had success at the ML level, and he has a better repetoire of pitches. Rusch is slumping badly, and Mitre is wildly inconsistent. IMO, Williams will better better than both over the long haul.

 

There is far greater success of Mitre succeeding as a starter and Williams as a reliever than Williams as a starter and Mitre as a reliever. Williams isn't pitching well, and his relative success 2 years ago doesn't mean much. He doesn't strike many out, and gives up too many hard hit balls and fly balls.

 

Didn't Williams win 10 games last season as a rookie? I may be wrong, but he's been a starter for his short MLB career. That's where he should stay, because he has the potential to be a good #4-5 starter for us.

[goonys evil twin]

Steve Stone is a huge Cubs fan. It is blatantly obvious that he still wished he could watch them everyday.

 

It's also obvious that he loves to take shots at them to get a reaction. Have you listened to some of his commentary on the Score (if not check out the Score audibles section of 670thescore.com)? There is never a need to sugar coat analysis however, going out of one's way to be nasty isn't necessary. I do agree that he is still a fan but so is Mike Murphy and he dogs the Cubs on a nightly basis.

 

This is complete BS in my opinion. I am an enormous Cubs fan, but when I don't like what I see I don't feel the need to hide it. Stone is well within his rights to say whatever he wants. There's no way he's said anything worse than I've said. The Cubs do some inexcusablely stupid crap, and they do it over and over. There is absolutely nothing wrong with an experienced professional analyst pointing that out.

[badger1679666666]

Steve Stone is a huge Cubs fan. It is blatantly obvious that he still wished he could watch them everyday.

 

It's also obvious that he loves to take shots at them to get a reaction. Have you listened to some of his commentary on the Score (if not check out the Score audibles section of 670thescore.com)? There is never a need to sugar coat analysis however, going out of one's way to be nasty isn't necessary. I do agree that he is still a fan but so is Mike Murphy and he dogs the Cubs on a nightly basis.

 

There hasn't really been much positive so far this season. If we were the White Sox, I doubt Stone would be nasty.

[goonys evil twin]

Didn't Williams win 10 games last season as a rookie? I may be wrong, but he's been a starter for his short MLB career. That's where he should stay, because he has the potential to be a good #4-5 starter for us.

 

He was a rookie in 2003. Yes, he won 10 last year, but he didn't pitch particularly well. He stunk earlier this year and hasn't been impressive as a Cub.

 

I understand the faith in him. I just don't share it. His first start had a good result, but I didn't like all the deep outs and hard hit balls. I don't think he fools anybody, and I think his earlier success may have been somewhat flukish (remember, Pac Bell is a pitcher's park, so those deep flies didn't hurt as much). This isn't like the Hollandsworth in left or Neifi in short position where I am passionate about wanting change. It's more my opinion and bad feeling about Williams starting.

 

The best thing I can say about him is he should be able to eat innings and is not bad for a 5th starter.

[Blueheart05]

This is complete BS in my opinion. I am an enormous Cubs fan, but when I don't like what I see I don't feel the need to hide it. Stone is well within his rights to say whatever he wants. There's no way he's said anything worse than I've said. The Cubs do some inexcusablely stupid crap, and they do it over and over. There is absolutely nothing wrong with an experienced professional analyst pointing that out.

 

Crap is subjective. I agree that he should point out areas that need improvement but his ESPN analysis is nothing like what he does on the Score. He will go out of his way to be nasty in hopes of getting a laugh from the hosts (which is almost automatic). He is much more diplomatic on ESPN.

[goonys evil twin]

This is complete BS in my opinion. I am an enormous Cubs fan, but when I don't like what I see I don't feel the need to hide it. Stone is well within his rights to say whatever he wants. There's no way he's said anything worse than I've said. The Cubs do some inexcusablely stupid crap, and they do it over and over. There is absolutely nothing wrong with an experienced professional analyst pointing that out.

 

Crap is subjective. I agree that he should point out areas that need improvement but his ESPN analysis is nothing like what he does on the Score. He will go out of his way to be nasty in hopes of getting a laugh from the hosts (which is almost automatic). He is much more diplomatic on ESPN.

 

With the way the Cubs have played since September of last year, one would not have to go out of his way to be nasty when describing the action.

 

I'm much more worried about the crappy play than I am about analysts pointing out that crappy play.

[Blueheart05]

With the way the Cubs have played since September of last year, one would not have to go out of his way to be nasty when describing the action.

 

I'm much more worried about the crappy play than I am about analysts pointing out that crappy play.

 

To each his own... There have been some bright spots this season. However, Stone's sarcasm is legendary. Telling a guy that he should change his mechanics or go "sell cars" just isnt necessary. Later he soft peddled the comment by saying he's always liked Wood. Some things are just best unsaid and he knows that which is why he is diplomatic on ESPN. Dan Plesac does fair and balanced analysis on Comcastsportsnet; he points out the good and bad without using highly charged words.

[goonys evil twin]

With the way the Cubs have played since September of last year, one would not have to go out of his way to be nasty when describing the action.

 

I'm much more worried about the crappy play than I am about analysts pointing out that crappy play.

 

To each his own... There have been some bright spots this season. Stone's sarcasim is legendary. Telling a guy that he should change his mechanics or go "sell cars" just isnt necessary.

 

I don't get why that was so inflammatory. Sure he could have chosen different words, but why? He had a point he really wanted to emphasize. It's been repeated a billion times that Wood had mechanical issues and needed to improve. Stone highlighted it by saying something that might stick. I've been an enormous Wood supporter his entire career. I can't stand the 14 win talk or the trade him garbage. I brushed aside most criticism of Kerry the past few years noting his backtoback 200 inning seasons that most people ignored, and figured his development was bound to come naturally, just like most stud power pitchers. However, I neglected to acknowledge that it wouldn't just happen, it would only happen with hard work and some change, and I think Stone's insistence on pointing out Wood's faults, even as harshly as he did, helped to clarify the sense of urgency Wood and the Cubs should have about their future.

 

I like Plesac, and he offers a different product than Stone. But that doesn't make Steve's work any less accurate or appropriate.

[Blueheart05]

 

I don't get why that was so inflammatory.

 

It's inflammatory because you can hear the smirk on his face as he says it and he stops to get a laugh afterwards.

[goonys evil twin]

 

I don't get why that was so inflammatory.

 

It's inflammatory because you can hear the smirk on his face as he says it and he stops to get a laugh afterwards.

 

I just don't see the problem with it.

 

He's not pulling a Woody Paige or Jay Marriotti just blasting Wood with no regards for facts and trying to outscream the next guy while insulting players for the fun of it. He was making a legitimate point. Kerry was in danger of ruining his career without change. He could have said "sell insurance" which is the standard quote for guys who might not last in sports. He could have said "go coach high school," or, "retire to the beach with all your millions and your beautiful bride." It doesn't matter. A point was made, and I believe it was an accurate point with substantial support for his opinion.

 

I think people should worry much more about how the Cubs play than how the announcers describe the play.

[jjgman21]

Didn't Williams win 10 games last season as a rookie? I may be wrong, but he's been a starter for his short MLB career. That's where he should stay, because he has the potential to be a good #4-5 starter for us.

 

He was a rookie in 2003. Yes, he won 10 last year, but he didn't pitch particularly well. He stunk earlier this year and hasn't been impressive as a Cub.

 

 

Don't know if you are mixing up your years, but Williams was outstanding in 2003. 3.30 ERA, OPS against of .668.

 

Since joining the Cubs this year, his ERA is 3.68. granted that is in 22 innings, but that puts him between Prior and Z in terms of starters ERA. and you know the facts about earlier this year, so can't you make an exception?

 

go ahead and prefer one guy over the other, but don't diminish the guys accomplishments and adversity to make your point.

[bc2k]

I haven't read through this entire thread, so I don't know if this has been discussed yet, but I'll ask this anyway. Did anyone else notice a different camera angle on Comcast today? It appeared to me that the camera behind the pitcher was panned more to the left, cutting off a lot of the area behind right handed hitters.

 

I called a friend during the game, and he said he thinks it looks more zoomed in. Whatever it was, it looks off-center to me and I don't like it.

[goonys evil twin]

Didn't Williams win 10 games last season as a rookie? I may be wrong, but he's been a starter for his short MLB career. That's where he should stay, because he has the potential to be a good #4-5 starter for us.

 

He was a rookie in 2003. Yes, he won 10 last year, but he didn't pitch particularly well. He stunk earlier this year and hasn't been impressive as a Cub.

 

 

Don't know if you are mixing up your years, but Williams was outstanding in 2003. 3.30 ERA, OPS against of .668.

 

Since joining the Cubs this year, his ERA is 3.68. granted that is in 22 innings, but that puts him between Prior and Z in terms of starters ERA. and you know the facts about earlier this year, so can't you make an exception?

 

go ahead and prefer one guy over the other, but don't diminish the guys accomplishments and adversity to make your point.

 

I don't believe I confused a thing. 2003 was his rookie year. Last year was 2004, when he won 10, but had an ERA well over 4, a WHIP of about 1.3, a k/bb under 2, a k/9 under 6. What exception am I supposed to make? The guy doesn't impress me. He hasn't been a bad pitcher. I'm just not impressed with him. I don't have to diminish his accomplishments to feel that way.

[Blueheart05]

 

I don't get why that was so inflammatory.

 

It's inflammatory because you can hear the smirk on his face as he says it and he stops to get a laugh afterwards.

 

I just don't see the problem with it.

 

He's not pulling a Woody Paige or Jay Marriotti just blasting Wood with no regards for facts and trying to outscream the next guy while insulting players for the fun of it. He was making a legitimate point. Kerry was in danger of ruining his career without change. He could have said "sell insurance" which is the standard quote for guys who might not last in sports. He could have said "go coach high school," or, "retire to the beach with all your millions and your beautiful bride." It doesn't matter. A point was made, and I believe it was an accurate point with substantial support for his opinion.

 

I think people should worry much more about how the Cubs play than how the announcers describe the play.

 

 

I gave you just one example. There have been times when he took unnecessary shots at the Cubs. It's petty and it makes him look bad IMO. I am not worried at all about Stone but it would be naive to think that he doesnt use emotionally charged language to get a rise out of others. The Cubs had admitted to working on Kerry's mechanics prior to Stone going on the radio yet he has tried to take credit for the suggestion. That's laughable... Steve Stone likes reading a summary of his words in the Sun-times and he like reporters asking the Cubs about what he said on the radio.

[goonys evil twin]

I gave you just one example. There have been times when he took unnecessary shots at the Cubs. It's petty and it makes him look bad IMO. I am not worried at all about Stone but it would be naive to think that he doesnt use emotionally charged language to get a rise out of others. The Cubs had admitted to working on Kerry's mechanics prior to Stone going on the radio yet he has tried to take credit for the suggestion. That's laughable... Steve Stone likes reading a summary of his words in the Sun-times and he like reporters asking the Cubs about what he said on the radio.

 

What is laughable is all the consternation about Stone.

 

What constitutes unnecessary and necessary shots? The Cubs have deserved all sorts of shots. They've played terribly for long stretches, they've made stupid decisions, repeatedly, and can't seem to see the things that most everybody else in baseball can see. I'd call an analyst incompetent if he didn't point this stuff out.

 

I apologize for the hijacking of the game thread into another pointless Steve Stone debate. I just don't get all the paranoia that surrounds the man and his words.

[Jon]

Once again, Carlos love his futbol:

 

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20050715/capt.cxc10107151755.cubs_real_madrid_us_cxc101.jpg

 

Chicago Cubs pitcher Carlos Zambrano, left, teaches Real Madrid soccer players, from left to right, Roberto Carlos, Raul and Guti how to throw a baseball before they throw out the ceremonial first pitch before the start of the Chicago Cubs baseball game with the Pittsburgh Pirates at Wrigley Field Friday, July 15, 2005 in Chicago.

 

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20050715/capt.cxc10207151801.cubs_real_madrid_us_cxc102.jpg

 

Chicago Cubs pitcher Carlos Zambrano, second from right, teaches Real Madrid soccer players, from left, Roberto Carlos, Guti and Raul how to throw a baseball before they throw out the ceremonial first pitch before the start of the Chicago Cubs baseball game with the Pittsburgh Pirates at Wrigley Field Friday, July 15, 2005 in Chicago.

 

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20050715/i/r3192444604.jpg

 

Real Madrid's Roberto Carlos (L) shakes hands with Chicago Cubs pitcher Carlos Zambrano after throwing out the ceremonial first pitch before the Chicago Cubs baseball game against the Pittsburgh Pirates at Wrigley Field in Chicago July 15, 2005. Real Madrid will face Chivas Guadalajara in a friendly match at Chicago's Soldier Field on July 16.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/chc/photos

[Brian]

Carlos looks so much better in pinstripes. :(

[goonys evil twin]

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20050715/i/r3192444604.jpg

 

 

He's a freaking monster. I'd like to see how much of a dive they'd take in they were in the batter's box. That's cool that those guys came to Wrigley, I didn't even think about that even after reading they were in town.

[oldcubsfan]

I gave you just one example. There have been times when he took unnecessary shots at the Cubs. It's petty and it makes him look bad IMO. I am not worried at all about Stone but it would be naive to think that he doesnt use emotionally charged language to get a rise out of others. The Cubs had admitted to working on Kerry's mechanics prior to Stone going on the radio yet he has tried to take credit for the suggestion. That's laughable... Steve Stone likes reading a summary of his words in the Sun-times and he like reporters asking the Cubs about what he said on the radio.

 

What is laughable is all the consternation about Stone.

 

What constitutes unnecessary and necessary shots? The Cubs have deserved all sorts of shots. They've played terribly for long stretches, they've made stupid decisions, repeatedly, and can't seem to see the things that most everybody else in baseball can see. I'd call an analyst incompetent if he didn't point this stuff out.

 

I apologize for the hijacking of the game thread into another pointless Steve Stone debate. I just don't get all the paranoia that surrounds the man and his words.

It is very obvious you believe Stone is a genius. Some of us disagree, and obviously at alot of people in baseball disagree or he would be making decisions for a team.. That's why is he is in his perfect element, that being a terrific second guesser and an amusingly arrogant commentator.

[goonys evil twin]

It is very obvious you believe Stone is a genius. Some of us disagree, and obviously at alot of people in baseball disagree or he would be making decisions for a team.. That's why is he is in his perfect element, that being a terrific second guesser and an amusingly arrogant commentator.

 

Actually I don't think he'd make a very good personel man. I disagree strongly with his statements about clutch players, the usefulness of guys like Hairston, and his occasional small ball mentality. I do believe he's a very good television analyst. I wouldn't call him a second guesser, you can't if you actually listen to what he says. I don't deny his arrogance, but then against 95% of people in sports are arrogant SOB's.

[Jon]

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20050715/i/r3192444604.jpg

 

 

He's a freaking monster. I'd like to see how much of a dive they'd take in they were in the batter's box. That's cool that those guys came to Wrigley, I didn't even think about that even after reading they were in town.

Yeah. Did you see a replay of that first pitch? Z crouched down in a catcher's position but leaped high into the air to prevent the ball from going to the backstop. He seemed giddy. I'm not sure if Z still plays soccer (I'd imagine his contract wouldn't allow it), but I'd pay money to see it.

[oldcubsfan]

It is very obvious you believe Stone is a genius. Some of us disagree, and obviously at alot of people in baseball disagree or he would be making decisions for a team.. That's why is he is in his perfect element, that being a terrific second guesser and an amusingly arrogant commentator.

 

Actually I don't think he'd make a very good personel man. I disagree strongly with his statements about clutch players, the usefulness of guys like Hairston, and his occasional small ball mentality. I do believe he's a very good television analyst. I wouldn't call him a second guesser, you can't if you actually listen to what he says. I don't deny his arrogance, but then against 95% of people in sports are arrogant SOB's.

We agree on a lot you say. I do disagree about the second guessing. Today he again slams Dusty about hairston and walker batting 1-2. Saying it basically was obvious for 83 games, he fails to mention Walker was out 6 weeks. His continual snide comments last year and this year turned me off completely. If anyone criticizes him, he howls. He is extremely thin skinned and yet claims he is objective. I know I'm in the minority but I am glad he's gone.

BTW, the definition of true 2nd guessing is coming on soon, Mike Murphy. The Cubs win again he's going to tell us what was wrong. Talk about useless.

[imb]

I used to love Roberto Carlos. He could bend it like Beckham before Beckham could.