Dayton Daily News suggests Kearns for Hill

[Soul]

I must admit I haven't been following Kearns' career, so forgive me.

 

What happened to him? Did he lose his focus? Or is it just one too many injuries? The guy does seem a bit prone to missing time. We've got alot of those kind of players already, don't we?

 

What good would trading Hill for Kearns do if Kearns just lands on the DL anyway?

[treebird]

Strikeout rates are one thing. An inflated ERA and sub-.500 record are others. Because Estes got more flyouts or groundouts instead of the crazy K rates Hill has put up doesn't make him any less of a pitcher. Compare the W-L record, ERA, WHIP, etc. of the two and tell me there are no similarities.

 

win loss record is entirely meaningless for a pitcher because it is determined by team performance (i.e. offensive run support, among other things)

 

k rate matters a great deal. studies have shown that it is one of the best predictors for determining which pitchers will go on to have success in the major leagues and which pitchers will not.

 

other excellent statistics to look at are hr/9 and bb/9. and fun combinations of them like hr/k and k/bb

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Hendry needs to keep pushing a Patterson for Kearns trade, it makes too much sense on too many levels. Since the Reds need starting pitching so bad, and we need bullpen help, why not a Jerome Williams for Ryan Wagner component to the trade, too? Williams is more valuable to the Reds than Wagner is, fills a bigger need.

 

So, my offer is Patterson + Williams for Kearns + Wagner. Good trade for both teams.

[davecubsfan]

Hendry needs to keep pushing a Patterson for Kearns trade, it makes too much sense on too many levels. Since the Reds need starting pitching so bad, and we need bullpen help, why not a Jerome Williams for Ryan Wagner component to the trade, too? Williams is more valuable to the Reds than Wagner is, fills a bigger need.

 

So, my offer is Patterson + Williams for Kearns + Wagner. Good trade for both teams.

 

 

I don't think the Red would take Patterson, and I don't think the Reds would give up Wagner under any circumstances. He's young and cheap, something Cincy seems to value. Cincy doesn't need another OF'er unless it's a prospect. It wouldn't surprise me to see us have to pay for someone to take Corey.

[imb]

Strikeout rates are one thing. An inflated ERA and sub-.500 record are others. Because Estes got more flyouts or groundouts instead of the crazy K rates Hill has put up doesn't make him any less of a pitcher. Compare the W-L record, ERA, WHIP, etc. of the two and tell me there are no similarities.

 

win loss record is entirely meaningless for a pitcher because it is determined by team performance (i.e. offensive run support, among other things)

 

k rate matters a great deal. studies have shown that it is one of the best predictors for determining which pitchers will go on to have success in the major leagues and which pitchers will not.

 

other excellent statistics to look at are hr/9 and bb/9. and fun combinations of them like hr/k and k/bb

 

Oooh ooh ooh, my favorite stat for minor league pitchers is xbh/k.

[Brendan]

Don't get me wrong. If Hill had a heater, a real heater, that rode in on the hands of righties, they couldn't touch his curve. But since his fastball is straight and slow, he's going to have trouble at the major league level as a starting pitcher.

 

 

if hill ever were to develop a nice cutter, i think he would nearly be unhittable. i'd welcome zito's curve with leiter's cutter to the rotation with open arms.

 

that being said, with hendry's (and dusty's, if he's still around) obvious love for a LH starter, my guess is hill takes jerome's spot in '06, if maddux isn't traded, cutter or no cutter.

[NorthsideAvenger]

I didn't originally refer to it as scouting. Someone else did, maybe you. I saw his other games to and remember low velocity. Either way, this is not a curveball league anymore. The pitch looks good but hitters can hit it now. That pitch will be most effective if he can keep it down and bounce it off the plate area. If he leaves it in the zone its going to get hit by righties more than it will freeze them. Hill's curve is going to be great against lefties. He needs a cutter or fork/split to really keep hitters off-balance.

 

You may not refer to it as scouting(or evaluating), but that is how it has come off as. I am not an adovcate of keeping Hill, but to trade him for another UNDERACHIEVING OFer like Kearns, isn't the way to go. If you can get a Jose Guillen type OFer with a package starting of Hill, you do it, but not Kearns. I would gladly trade Murton/Hill/Patterson for Miguel Cabrera. :lol: :twisted:

[Backtobanks]

Hendry needs to keep pushing a Patterson for Kearns trade, it makes too much sense on too many levels. Since the Reds need starting pitching so bad, and we need bullpen help, why not a Jerome Williams for Ryan Wagner component to the trade, too? Williams is more valuable to the Reds than Wagner is, fills a bigger need.

 

So, my offer is Patterson + Williams for Kearns + Wagner. Good trade for both teams.

 

 

I don't think the Red would take Patterson, and I don't think the Reds would give up Wagner under any circumstances. He's young and cheap, something Cincy seems to value. Cincy doesn't need another OF'er unless it's a prospect. It wouldn't surprise me to see us have to pay for someone to take Corey.

 

Isn't it amazing that nobody wants Corey, but we salivate at getting Kearns. I suggested a Patterson-Kearns trade a while ago, even though the Reds don't need an OF. Why should we give up one of our top pitching prospects for an underachieving OF who was sent to the minors.

[neely crenshaw]

we can probably do better than kearns for our pitching. i don't see cincy taking patterson or any other outfielder. they are trying to dump one of their 4 outfielders.

we need to deal some of this young talent. before we ruin it's value. how much damage have we done to the value of dubois, patterson, wellmeyer, mitre, wuertz, guzman and brownlie? a year ago we could have gotten a proven(and not a neifi type) vet for anyone of them. now we have very little value in any of them.

[AFCubsFan]

I don't want to see a Hill for Kearns trade at this point. I think the team would be better off seeing what younger OF'ers like Murton can do before they give up a prospect for a struggling OF who isn't even playing for a major league club right now (the Cubs already have one of those.) Kearns would just block the kids that are already blocked by sub-mediocre players. Teams can play younger players and win. Put Murton in LF for a while, see what he can do, don't jack with his playing time, then adjust if he isn't performing up to expectations but the team still has a good chance at the deadline. Otherwise, leave him in for an extended tryout. It would be helpful to the club in the offseason to know what kind of talent they have before they overspend on a FA OF flop. Even the Yankees have been known to play some home-grown talent. If Dusty can't comply, fire him. The team obviously thinks it has a problem because it's looking for an OF. It's in their best interest to see if they already have that OF in house before they look for outside help.

[NCCubFan]

The Cubs' season is over, so the Cubs aren't desperate.

No it isn't.

[Bench Coach]

Guys, Kearnes is hitting a whole .224.

 

Lets try for a player with a batting average not hovering just above the Mendoza Line.

[XZero771679666304]

Guys, Kearnes is hitting a whole .224.

 

Lets try for a player with a batting average not hovering just above the Mendoza Line.

 

Kearns = Patterson

 

IMO, this would be a totally lateral move for both teams.

[Bench Coach]

Kearns = Patterson

 

IMO, this would be a totally lateral move for both teams.

 

Exactly.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Wow, I'm not the only one who thinks it... :)

 

Link

[Elrhino]

I think the HIll/Estes comparison is pretty spot on. Luckily, Hendry seems to have a very good sense of our most over-valued prospects are, so if not Kearns then I certainly hope Hill will go the way of Bobby Hill, Hee Seop, Brendon Harris and Dubois and is traded for some type of corner outfield bat to mend this mockery of a major league outfield JH has assembled in the last 12 months. Edited July 26, 2005 by Elrhino

[Derwood]

I think the HIll/Estes comparison is pretty spot on. Luckily, Hendry seems to have a very good sense of our most over-valued prospects are, so if not Kearns then I certainly hope Hill will go the way of Bobby Hill, Hee Seop, Brendon Harris and Dubois and is traded for some type of corner outfield bat to mend this mockery of a major league outfield he's assembled in the last 12 months.

 

Though Hill has done nothing to merit the suggestion that he will be as insignificant as Bobby Hill or Brendan Harris so far. He threw a lot of pitches tonight, but gave up just 2 ER in 5 IP. You couldn't ask for much more from a spot starter.

[WildcatCubby]

Jon Garland and Dontrelle Willis. Nuf Said

[Outshined_One]

Jon Garland and Dontrelle Willis. Nuf Said

 

Matt Bruback and Jose Cueto.

[Clogged Basepaths]

We traded Jon Garland in 1998, it took about 7 years for it to really bite the Cubs in the ass. That wasn't Hendry anyway, it was the brilliant Ed Lynch.

 

Willis was I believe the 4th biggest part of the deal on our side. I also seem to remember reading something to the effect of the Marlins thinking WE pulled a fast one on Dontrelle (the day they got him, they worked him out and something about him throwing half the pitches to the backstop with his THEN seemingly unrepeatable motion).

 

Crap happens, especially with pitching prospects, also don't forget Lohse.

 

Of all the 'big time' and 'decent' prospects Hendry has traded away...ONE has come back to bite him. As much as I wish we had him, let it go. Johan Santana was a Rule 5 pick, Jeff Bagwell was traded for a reliever...crap happens. It just seems like it happens more to the Cubs than anyone, but it doesn't.

[Elrhino]

I think the HIll/Estes comparison is pretty spot on. Luckily, Hendry seems to have a very good sense of our most over-valued prospects are, so if not Kearns then I certainly hope Hill will go the way of Bobby Hill, Hee Seop, Brendon Harris and Dubois and is traded for some type of corner outfield bat to mend this mockery of a major league outfield he's assembled in the last 12 months.

 

Though Hill has done nothing to merit the suggestion that he will be as insignificant as Bobby Hill or Brendan Harris so far. He threw a lot of pitches tonight, but gave up just 2 ER in 5 IP. You couldn't ask for much more from a spot starter.

 

For those that tend to grossly over-value this organizations' prospects, Bobby Hill and Brendan Harris were hardly considered insignificant.

 

Sample size of 1 game aside, the fact that Hill has never been considered one of this organizations top prospects by Callis or anyone else is telling. Just ignoring his questionable tools, in his minor league career he's puts up equally amazing and apalling stats. Amazing k9, appalling w9 and a rather poor whip for a prospecty of his age. If one were the type to overvalue Cub prospects, it would be very easy to just focus on the k9 and conveniently overlook the complete evaluation.

[TXCubsFan]

Jon Garland and Dontrelle Willis. Nuf Said

 

The trade that gave the Marlins Willis led to the trade that gave us DLee. Hendry has a good working relationship with Detroit, Oakland, and Florida because they are willing to trade talent to get talent, unlike Cincy or Tampa Bay.

[dime]

before we get too enamored with hill, let's remember the lineup he was pitching to last night.

[Derwood]

Jon Garland and Dontrelle Willis. Nuf Said

 

Could you imagine the vitriol that would be hurled at Garland the past 7 years while he struggled along at .500? Cubs fans would have run him out of town long before he gained All Star status.

[abuck1220]

man, you people are harsh on hill. mitre has a couple decent starts, and people are deeming him the second greg maddux. hill does well, and people are comparing him to estes...

 

by the way, hill is the second oldest guy in the rotation now, behind only maddux. weird.