Random trade speculation

[CubinNY]

20 minutes ago, Manny Trillos Brother said:

Here's what I'd like to see some version of:

1. Detmers & Adell from Angels for J. Rojas, Conrad and lower level upside guy (Southisene? Hartshorn?)

Provides one starter and backup OF who is mashing lefties this season (plus Wrigley should be a slightly better park effect for him)

2. Foster Griffin & Abrams from Nats for Shaw, Ayers & Wiggins (or Townsend) & a Drew Gray type

Griffin slots in as a long-relief/possible starter, Abrams is under control until 2028 & replaces Shaw as IF back up with a better bat to upgrade the DH spot. 

3. Okert from Astros for whatever non-closer relief pitchers go for.

Bargain shopping here, since we've depleted the farm for other needs. 

I'm really bad at assessing value and trade stuff, but this looks terribly lopsided against the Cubs. 

[Tryptamine]

I mean Adell has a career 0.0 fWAR since he came up in 2020 and a negative fWAR in 2026 which means he has no to negative value. So this trade is basically two top 50 prospects and the Cubs'  1st round pick from last year for Detmers? Absolutely not, good god no. 

[squally1313]

Honestly, picking up any significant offensive piece is a waste of resources. You have a pitching staff filled with weak spots where even picking up league average talent would be meaningful improvements.

Starters: Peterson, Taillon, Rea all can be replaced. You can hope maybe one of these spots can be filled by Brown or Cabrera but that should not be the plan.

Relievers: Trent Thornton has a 5.07 FIP. Caleb Thielbar has a 5.48 FIP. Gavin Hollowell has a 5.74 FIP. Tyler Ferguson has a 6.88 FIP. Aaron Civale has a 5.34 FIP. Javier Assad has a 5.17 FIP. Ethan Roberts has a 5.29 FIP. The league average for bullpen pitchers is 4.21. All of these dudes can go. Webb and Rolison are fine, if too far on the depth chart. 

As bad as the bullpen is, everything needs to be thrown at starters. I don't care if they have three months or three years left. Let Hottovy and Counsell and the current injured list fix the bullpen. It's much more likely that Brown, Cabrera, Steele, Wiggins can give you 2 high quality innings than 6 for purposes of this season. 

[Rcal10]

11 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

Honestly, picking up any significant offensive piece is a waste of resources. You have a pitching staff filled with weak spots where even picking up league average talent would be meaningful improvements.

Starters: Peterson, Taillon, Rea all can be replaced. You can hope maybe one of these spots can be filled by Brown or Cabrera but that should not be the plan.

Relievers: Trent Thornton has a 5.07 FIP. Caleb Thielbar has a 5.48 FIP. Gavin Hollowell has a 5.74 FIP. Tyler Ferguson has a 6.88 FIP. Aaron Civale has a 5.34 FIP. Javier Assad has a 5.17 FIP. Ethan Roberts has a 5.29 FIP. The league average for bullpen pitchers is 4.21. All of these dudes can go. Webb and Rolison are fine, if too far on the depth chart. 

As bad as the bullpen is, everything needs to be thrown at starters. I don't care if they have three months or three years left. Let Hottovy and Counsell and the current injured list fix the bullpen. It's much more likely that Brown, Cabrera, Steele, Wiggins can give you 2 high quality innings than 6 for purposes of this season. 

I don’t care either if it is 3 years left or 3 months left on a contract. However, based on what Jed has said, it doesn’t appear he will be very aggressive because they probably aren’t getting a first round bye. I would think it would be easier to be more aggressive if they traded for someone with more than just this year left. Which is why I think that is what they will be looking for. 

[squally1313]

Just now, Rcal10 said:

I don’t care either if it is 3 years left or 3 months left on a contract. However, based on what Jed has said, it doesn’t appear he will be very aggressive because they probably aren’t getting a first round bye. I would think it would be easier to be more aggressive if they traded for someone with more than just this year left. Which is why I think that is what they will be looking for. 

Yeah I get that you're more so predicting what Jed is going to do. Maybe I'm just reading it wrong, but it's really frustrating that the messaging seems to be along the lines of 'well, if the team on the field had played a little better, then we'd really be aggressive, but, alas'. This offense didn't put together a bad pitching staff, the reason we're not closer to a bye is because Jed decided to build the bullpen on the fly again and has supplemented what has never been more than an average rotation with one starting pitcher in the last 18 months. 

[CubinNY]

48 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

Yeah I get that you're more so predicting what Jed is going to do. Maybe I'm just reading it wrong, but it's really frustrating that the messaging seems to be along the lines of 'well, if the team on the field had played a little better, then we'd really be aggressive, but, alas'. This offense didn't put together a bad pitching staff, the reason we're not closer to a bye is because Jed decided to build the bullpen on the fly again and has supplemented what has never been more than an average rotation with one starting pitcher in the last 18 months. 

It's the Cubs' mindset that has been around for longer than the Ricketts have owned them. Just hang around the WC and count the gate. That's how good they want to be for the price they want to pay. Maybe call it the Crane Kenney Experience. 

[Rcal10]

44 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

Yeah I get that you're more so predicting what Jed is going to do. Maybe I'm just reading it wrong, but it's really frustrating that the messaging seems to be along the lines of 'well, if the team on the field had played a little better, then we'd really be aggressive, but, alas'. This offense didn't put together a bad pitching staff, the reason we're not closer to a bye is because Jed decided to build the bullpen on the fly again and has supplemented what has never been more than an average rotation with one starting pitcher in the last 18 months. 

Fair point. But to be fair to Jed, if Horton, Cabrera, Brown and Boyd were healthy all year, or no serious injuries to any of them keeping them out for a crazy amount of time, the Cubs would be very much in the race. And Jed also has no control on the Brewers playing at over 100 win pace. Cubs are right around a 90 win pace with stupid injuries. People can complain all they want about what Jed didn’t do, fact is he did a good job this off season. You can’t work around the injuries they had, and expect to win mid to upper 90’s. This isn’t even talking about Palencia out as long as he has been, Steele not being available all year and numerous other pen injuries. 
I dont necessarily agree with what Jed is saying, but I do understand it. But again, that doesn’t mean we can’t go after Webb, Detmers, Soriano, a Guardian young pitcher, etc….. Anyone with some years left should be considered.

[Rcal10]

2 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

It's the Cubs' mindset that has been around for longer than the Ricketts have owned them. Just hang around the WC and count the gate. That's how good they want to be for the price they want to pay. Maybe call it the Crane Kenney Experience. 

Cubs have no control on what the Brewers do. Honest question, what do you think the Cubs record would be if their staff wasn’t decimated by injuries? Being conservative I would say 60-40. That is a team built to win 96 games. I agree Jed normally wasn’t aggressive enough. And I wish he did more. But being fair to him now, he did build a pretty good team this year that caught serious bad luck with injuries and a crazy good Brewers team. 

[squally1313]

1 minute ago, Rcal10 said:

Fair point. But to be fair to Jed, if Horton, Cabrera, Brown and Boyd were healthy all year, or no serious injuries to any of them keeping them out for a crazy amount of time, the Cubs would be very much in the race. And Jed also has no control on the Brewers playing at over 100 win pace. Cubs are right around a 90 win pace with stupid injuries. People can complain all they want about what Jed didn’t do, fact is he did a good job this off season. 

1. This pitching staff was ranked 19th per FG going into the year. I know, for different reasons, you can point to those names, but you also have counters: Cabrera was a 2 fWAR pitcher last year and has given us 0.2 fWAR in 72 innings this year, relying on Matthew Boyd to be healthy has worked once out of the last six years, Cade Horton doesn't know how to strike people out. I'm not saying the injuries aren't great, I'm saying the difference between those guys staying healthy and what we've gotten from the rotation isn't all that drastic.
2. Did Jed do a good job this year? I think he, slowly, put together a very, very good core, has avoided really bad deals, has made some shrewd trades (PCA, Busch), and he deserves a lot of credit for all of that. But, in terms of this offseason?

• Maton - Bad, another year left
• The whole Shota situation - weird at best
• Thielbar - 5.48 FIP, -0.4 fWAR
• Tyler Austin - Waste
• Jacob Webb - Good
• Hunter Harvey - was always hurt, stayed hurt
• Bregman - underwhelming? His defense has propped up his value, but presumably you weren't hoping for a 43 point wOBA and 29 point xwOBA drop
• Carlson/McCormick - wastes, but the offense is fine, so whatever
• Conforto - good
• Trading Kittredge for cash - he's been mediocre this year, but mediocre would basically make him our set up guy
• Cabrera trade - Caissie and Hernandez probably suck, but Cabrera might suck too. Right now, does not seem like the best use of resources.

When you pair all that with the Nico extension, essentially locking in your infield for 4+ years, not trading a single infield prospect (or Alcantara, who is also super blocked) between last trade deadline and now seems like really, really bad resource management. The lack of pitching was obvious, healthy or not. He hasn't done nearly enough to address it.

[Jason Ross]

With where the Cubs are at in the standings and Jed Hoyer's comments previously about the 1/2 seeding, as much as I'd love to say the Cubs would be big-game hunting, it probably won't happen. Right, wrong, whatever; not the point of where I'm going. 

Point I'm going for is that if I were guessing on a starting pitcher the Cubs go after it's going to be Clay Holmes. He's a good (not great) starter who gets a lot of ground balls and chase. He probably won't be super expensive as he's likely to be on an expiring contract*. Feels like he strikes a balance in "now and affordable". He probably won't blow the door off, but he'd certainly raise the pitching staff. 

 

 

*It's a player option and he can opt out, but he isn't picking it up unless he's super hurt.

[Rcal10]

33 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

1. This pitching staff was ranked 19th per FG going into the year. I know, for different reasons, you can point to those names, but you also have counters: Cabrera was a 2 fWAR pitcher last year and has given us 0.2 fWAR in 72 innings this year, relying on Matthew Boyd to be healthy has worked once out of the last six years, Cade Horton doesn't know how to strike people out. I'm not saying the injuries aren't great, I'm saying the difference between those guys staying healthy and what we've gotten from the rotation isn't all that drastic.
2. Did Jed do a good job this year? I think he, slowly, put together a very, very good core, has avoided really bad deals, has made some shrewd trades (PCA, Busch), and he deserves a lot of credit for all of that. But, in terms of this offseason?

• Maton - Bad, another year left
• The whole Shota situation - weird at best
• Thielbar - 5.48 FIP, -0.4 fWAR
• Tyler Austin - Waste
• Jacob Webb - Good
• Hunter Harvey - was always hurt, stayed hurt
• Bregman - underwhelming? His defense has propped up his value, but presumably you weren't hoping for a 43 point wOBA and 29 point xwOBA drop
• Carlson/McCormick - wastes, but the offense is fine, so whatever
• Conforto - good
• Trading Kittredge for cash - he's been mediocre this year, but mediocre would basically make him our set up guy
• Cabrera trade - Caissie and Hernandez probably suck, but Cabrera might suck too. Right now, does not seem like the best use of resources.

When you pair all that with the Nico extension, essentially locking in your infield for 4+ years, not trading a single infield prospect (or Alcantara, who is also super blocked) between last trade deadline and now seems like really, really bad resource management. The lack of pitching was obvious, healthy or not. He hasn't done nearly enough to address it.

Again, to be fair to the Cubs FO, their staff typically exceeds the FG projections, because if the great defense the team plays. If that entire rotation stayed relatively healthy it would have been top 10-13 in the league. We all felt Horton was undervalued, for one. Cabrera was also someone most were very excited about. Brown turning into a stud only make the staff better. Suggesting their staff, at its peak and all healthy would have been 19th is just not what most of us thought. Aside from Bregman all those other deals are small”ish”.
And my question was, how many more wins would have have with a healthy staff? I say they would be 60-40. That’s very good. 
This says nothing about their plan for the deadline. I don’t really like it at all. This is where I feel Jed leaves a lot to be desired. Get a top pitcher. This team can win. A top starter and a solid pen arm and give them a chance. I just don’t think he will do that. 

[Rcal10]

42 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

 

When you pair all that with the Nico extension, essentially locking in your infield for 4+ years, not trading a single infield prospect (or Alcantara, who is also super blocked) between last trade deadline and now seems like really, really bad resource management. The lack of pitching was obvious, healthy or not. He hasn't done nearly enough to address it.

Wanted to address this separately. I completely agree with this. A young starting pitcher with several years of control should already be on this team. Shaw and/or Alcantara should have been in a package for a good young pitcher. To me, that should have been the obvious move once they signed Bregman. 
The off season was not perfect. No one has a perfect off season. And Jed definitely makes his share of mistakes. But even with mistakes a relatively healthy year would have brought a mid 90’s win team to Chicago. 

[Rcal10]

22 minutes ago, Jason Ross said:

With where the Cubs are at in the standings and Jed Hoyer's comments previously about the 1/2 seeding, as much as I'd love to say the Cubs would be big-game hunting, it probably won't happen. Right, wrong, whatever; not the point of where I'm going. 

Point I'm going for is that if I were guessing on a starting pitcher the Cubs go after it's going to be Clay Holmes. He's a good (not great) starter who gets a lot of ground balls and chase. He probably won't be super expensive as he's likely to be on an expiring contract*. Feels like he strikes a balance in "now and affordable". He probably won't blow the door off, but he'd certainly raise the pitching staff. 

 

 

*It's a player option and he can opt out, but he isn't picking it up unless he's super hurt.

I thought I saw the Mets were talking with him to extend him. I don’t think the Cubs will get a rental even as good as him, tbh. If they get a good pitcher, IMO, he will have a few years of control after this one. If they get a rental it will be one of those tbh king outside the box sort of guys. No one even as good as Holmes. 

[Jason Ross]

7 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

I thought I saw the Mets were talking with him to extend him. I don’t think the Cubs will get a rental even as good as him, tbh. If they get a good pitcher, IMO, he will have a few years of control after this one. If they get a rental it will be one of those tbh king outside the box sort of guys. No one even as good as Holmes. 

I don't agree. I really don't think Holmes will be super expensive; he's been a reliever his entire career until last year, has spent time on the IL this year and should be expiring. Merril Kelly-esque here. Nor do I expect the Mets to extend a 34 year old mid year before the CBA. 

I know we all want them to get controlled pitching but last year was probably a good example of how the Cubs will handle that aspect; talk to teams, decide the price in July is too high then go back in on it during the off-season. I'd love to be wrong, but Jed Hoyer is incredibly transparent when he talks. He was transparent both about how he views the trade deadline on pitching prices and how he views where teams sit. 

In terms of rentals, I think by the deadline Holmes will be around the 5th or 6th most expensive pitcher moved. I expect the Tigers will probably sell on Skubal and Mize. I expect Peralta will go. There's probably a surprise or two. And he feels like a prime Cubs candidate based on what he does well and where I perceive his price to be (keep all your best prospects, maybe you trade a guy in the Kane Kepley "not fun to lose, but you can live with it") group and a young upside play down the farm). With who the Cubs have coming back in the bullpen, I think they'll target their resources at a starter. They know they don't need another Colin Rea and Holmes sits in between the best rentals and the "better than Jameson Taillon" types pretty neatly. 

[Dfan25]

I think if they can get a SP with control , they’ will pursue regardless . With that said it is entirely possible that no pitchers with control get moved , just like last year .

Their position will impact however , how agressive they will be on rental. Skubal won’t be a Cub it’s what I am saying 

 

Holmes does seem like a good fit with the Cubs infield behind him . They could take a chance on Peralta due to his familiarity with Counsell , but he has been really underwhelming .  If anything it should lower his cost 

Edited 2 hours ago by Dfan25

[ILMindState]

1 hour ago, Rcal10 said:

Wanted to address this separately. I completely agree with this. A young starting pitcher with several years of control should already be on this team. Shaw and/or Alcantara should have been in a package for a good young pitcher. To me, that should have been the obvious move once they signed Bregman. 
The off season was not perfect. No one has a perfect off season. And Jed definitely makes his share of mistakes. But even with mistakes a relatively healthy year would have brought a mid 90’s win team to Chicago. 

They should have never signed Bregman. If they were going to sign one big contract it should have been Cease. I'd rather have Cease and either given Shaw/Ramirez a chance or traded for Arenado.

[Derwood]

3 minutes ago, ILMindState said:

They should have never signed Bregman. If they were going to sign one big contract it should have been Cease. I'd rather have Cease and either given Shaw/Ramirez a chance or traded for Arenado.

If I remember correctly, Cease signed way earlier than Bregman. Don't know if Cubs were in or out on Cease, but they weren't skipping Cease to sign Bregman

[ILMindState]

10 minutes ago, Derwood said:

If I remember correctly, Cease signed way earlier than Bregman. Don't know if Cubs were in or out on Cease, but they weren't skipping Cease to sign Bregman

He did, but Jed should have been more aggressive knowing SP was the biggest team need. I don't even think they were even linked to Cease other than just checking in. What was the big infatuation with an aging 3B with declining bat speed coming off an injury? Sign a horsefeathers ace. 

Edited 2 hours ago by ILMindState

[squally1313]

1 hour ago, Jason Ross said:

know we all want them to get controlled pitching but last year was probably a good example of how the Cubs will handle that aspect; talk to teams, decide the price in July is too high then go back in on it during the off-season. I'd love to be wrong, but Jed Hoyer is incredibly transparent when he talks. He was transparent both about how he views the trade deadline on pitching prices and how he views where teams sit. 

I’m not saying you agree with the approach you laid out, but the obvious counter to this is that we went into last year as an unfinished product with bullets to spend and budget to use. Then we didn’t do it. Then we did a half measure this offseason, came in as unfinished product with a bunch of blocked prospects, unsurprisingly didn’t play like an elite/bye getting team, and now we’re…probably going to sit out the top of the market again? When in this cycle/plan do we get to ‘let’s go for it’ mode? Do we just have to hope for the very good offense or the mediocre pitching to super overperform for a few months? 

[Bertz]

1 hour ago, squally1313 said:

As bad as the bullpen is, everything needs to be thrown at starters. I don't care if they have three months or three years left. Let Hottovy and Counsell and the current injured list fix the bullpen. It's much more likely that Brown, Cabrera, Steele, Wiggins can give you 2 high quality innings than 6 for purposes of this season. 

This to me is the most interesting thing this deadline is what approach do you take from a pure volume/bodies standpoint.

The pen is at least three, you could easily argue five guys short at the moment.  But like you say the injury risk SPs all fit well in the pen.  The back-end SPs also fit well in the pen.  Aside from Taillon they all have previous bullpen success.  Doesn't feel like wishful thinking to assume we get quality innings from multiple guys ostensibly labeled SPs.

So like, do you just go get one closer type to tie things together up top and then let Craig go all "out getters" everywhere else?  Or do you add some volume knowing that it's not a guarantee that from here on out hurt guys get healthy faster than healthy guys get hurt?  

[squally1313]

1 hour ago, Rcal10 said:

Again, to be fair to the Cubs FO, their staff typically exceeds the FG projections, because if the great defense the team plays. If that entire rotation stayed relatively healthy it would have been top 10-13 in the league.

You can’t double count that value though. The cubs don’t have the best purely offensive group in the league. They have the best position group in large part because of their defense. Build the 10th best pitching staff and have the defense turn it into top 5 in terms of results. It goes without saying that defense can’t do anything about giving up the most home runs in baseball. 

[Jason Ross]

16 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

I’m not saying you agree with the approach you laid out, but the obvious counter to this is that we went into last year as an unfinished product with bullets to spend and budget to use. Then we didn’t do it. Then we did a half measure this offseason, came in as unfinished product with a bunch of blocked prospects, unsurprisingly didn’t play like an elite/bye getting team, and now we’re…probably going to sit out the top of the market again? When in this cycle/plan do we get to ‘let’s go for it’ mode? Do we just have to hope for the very good offense or the mediocre pitching to super overperform for a few months? 

I don't necessarily agree with Hoyer on some of the stuff, but I think he's on to part of it. I think sitting where they do in the division, trading for 2 months of Skubal probably isn't prudent, for example. Hoyer laid out a strong argument that the 1st/2nd seed changes the math and I'll hand it to him, I think he's got my agreement there. That is going to be a dogfight of a trade and I expect the price it would take for a rental would be prohibitive for a controlled SP. Considering how a 3 game series can play out and the ultimate need for pitching next year...I think I'd pass on that. Not entirely the rental market, but just probably that aspect of it. 

Where me and Hoyer would probably disagree is in trading for controlled pitching today. Though I do think there is an aspect of "we don't know". We don't know what pitchers Tyler Zombro wants to work with long term; you and I might like a guy's savant page but they didn't invest in Zombro to take my opinion. I also don't know what the asks are; I would think the difference between today and January (let's just assume the CBA isn't a thing right this second for this sake) shouldn't make a difference. Especially if you consider trading for a controlled pitcher today vs a rental (say, Clay Holmes?) and then back into he market in the winter ..I think the prices are probably going to be a wash in the end. But I also don't know. And I think we can only speculate there. It makes a lot of this difficult to read. 

I will say this: if the Cubs walk into Opening Day and they haven't dealt at least one of Shaw, Ramirez, Rojas, Ballesteros than I think it's very likely that the front office has likely failed in their ability to functionally add to the rotation. You can sell me on a decent rental pitcher like Clay Holmes and a strong BP option as the meat of the deadline and then address the controlled SP in the off-season as viable. But once OD hits? It has to be done. 

[squally1313]

7 minutes ago, Jason Ross said:

don't necessarily agree with Hoyer on some of the stuff, but I think he's on to part of it. I think sitting where they do in the division, trading for 2 months of Skubal probably isn't prudent, for example. Hoyer laid out a strong argument that the 1st/2nd seed changes the math and I'll hand it to him, I think he's got my agreement there. That is going to be a dogfight of a trade and I expect the price it would take for a rental would be prohibitive for a controlled SP

A few probably conflicting points:

- it’s not two months of skubal. It’s two months of skubal and at least one, ideally multiple, incredibly high leverage starts in october

- I don’t disagree with the math sitting where we sit now. I’ve gone so far as to put out hot takes that teams with 99% playoff probabilities should sell at the deadline, playoffs are a crapshoot, no one moves the needle that much, sure. Rational side of the brain.  

- my frustration is that hoyer has now approached two straight seasons with pitching staffs that are unfinished at best, bad at worst, and then when they pitched bad, he used it as justification for not being aggressive. If the bar is ‘top two teams in the league come the middle of July’ then starting the season with a bullpen of 37 year old retreads is unacceptable. Watching what happened to our starters down the stretch and then only adding Edward Cabrera to it is also pretty unacceptable to me, but that’s probably more debatable. The team has played, overall, like they were built to play, 91 win pace, but in a way that is even easier to improve. The offense is elite instead of just very good, the pitching is terrible instead of just uninspiring. If the plan wasn’t to be good enough to make a big move, what are we doing here 

[Jason Ross]

1 minute ago, squally1313 said:

A few probably conflicting points:

- it’s not two months of skubal. It’s two months of skubal and at least one, ideally multiple, incredibly high leverage starts in october

- I don’t disagree with the math sitting where we sit now. I’ve gone so far as to put out hot takes that teams with 99% playoff probabilities should sell at the deadline, playoffs are a crapshoot, no one moves the needle that much, sure. Rational side of the brain.  

- my frustration is that hoyer has now approached two straight seasons with pitching staffs that are unfinished at best, bad at worst, and then when they pitched bad, he used it as justification for not being aggressive. If the bar is ‘top two teams in the league come the middle of July’ then starting the season with a bullpen of 37 year old retreads is unacceptable. Watching what happened to our starters down the stretch and then only adding Edward Cabrera to it is also pretty unacceptable to me, but that’s probably more debatable. The team has played, overall, like they were built to play, 91 win pace, but in a way that is even easier to improve. The offense is elite instead of just very good, the pitching is terrible instead of just uninspiring. If the plan wasn’t to be good enough to make a big move, what are we doing here 

With whatever small areas we may disagree with each other on this, I think we ultimately agree that the Cubs need to probably push some chips in at some point between today and whenever the 2027 season kicks off. They have prospect capital to do it. And frankly, they have enough overlapping capital that I think it borders on prospect hugging at the organizational level not to. It'd be one thing if it were a load of pitching prospects when you consider pitching attrition, but with hitting prospects? Cash some in. 

[Rcal10]

46 minutes ago, ILMindState said:

They should have never signed Bregman. If they were going to sign one big contract it should have been Cease. I'd rather have Cease and either given Shaw/Ramirez a chance or traded for Arenado.

This is easy to say now because of how well Cease is doing and how poorly Bregman is doing. And you may have said it then, too. I am not saying you didn’t. So now you look like you were right. But I would bet in last few years people also wanted Corbin Burnes, Snell, Fried, Valdez, Rodon, etc… And I will also say during Cease contract years there will be a time we will be happy we didn’t have him. I was fine with Bregman before and still am. He just isn’t playing well. I am not a fan of giving a 30 year old pitcher with a lot of innings on his arm a 7 year deal. Right now, yes, looks like a good deal so people can sit back with “I told you so”. And DID TELL US. Let’s see how it all plays out. To me the mistake was not trading Shaw+ for a young pitcher. I think something like Bregman and Soriano(as an example) would be just about as good as Cease and Shaw. And it would come with less risk of injury to the high priced guy.