LaRussa on playing Sunday out West:

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Tony might whine occasionally, but at least he makes some sort of sense, unlike his counterpart on the North Side. I challenge you to bring up one stupid comment made by LaRussa along the lines of Baker's affinity for African American players in the summer and walking clogs the bases.

 

Oh he makes sense, like when he calls Cox classless when Cox and the Braves organization is the epitome of class. Like when he criticizes the Braves manager for doing exactly what he does.

 

He complains about the Braves whining over pitches when his CF does it every at bat.

 

LaRussa is a hypocrite. Plain and simple.

[indifferent]

I conceded the whining. Not along the same lines...

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I conceded the whining. Not along the same lines...

 

In your opinion...

[vaball]

But I'm sure there will be plenty of Cub fans complaining about the schedule if they flub that road trip like they probably will.

 

 

and there's the difference between Cub fans and LaRussa/certain types of Card fans

 

Cub fans' complaints are legitimate

 

So when LaRussa complains about the schedule it's whining, but when Cubs fans complain about the schedule it's legitimate?

 

Personally, I don't think changing the Cardinals/Giants game to a night game the day before the all-star break is a big deal.

 

But if Tony LaRussa wants to gripe about it what's the big deal either? Don't Cubs fans have enough problems with their own manager that they don't need to harp on what they don't like about TLR all the time? Any time Tony makes some comment of a complaining nature Cubs fans on this board and others start calling him a hypocrite, a whiner, etc.

 

He contradicts himself, very well, he contradicts himself. Tony contains multitudes. I'm sure 9 out of 10 Cub fans would love to have him as their manager. It must suck being on the business end of all that competitive fire 16 times per season.

[TruffleShuffle]

But I'm sure there will be plenty of Cub fans complaining about the schedule if they flub that road trip like they probably will.

 

 

and there's the difference between Cub fans and LaRussa/certain types of Card fans

 

Cub fans' complaints are legitimate

 

So when LaRussa complains about the schedule it's whining, but when Cubs fans complain about the schedule it's legitimate?

 

Personally, I don't think changing the Cardinals/Giants game to a night game the day before the all-star break is a big deal.

 

But if Tony LaRussa wants to gripe about it what's the big deal either? Don't Cubs fans have enough problems with their own manager that they don't need to harp on what they don't like about TLR all the time? Any time Tony makes some comment of a complaining nature Cubs fans on this board and others start calling him a hypocrite, a whiner, etc.

 

He contradicts himself, very well, he contradicts himself. Tony contains multitudes. I'm sure 9 out of 10 Cub fans would love to have him as their manager. It must suck being on the business end of all that competitive fire 16 times per season.

 

I could give two craps about competitive fire. I want a guy who makes good decisions with the lineup and during the game. There are a lot of other guys I'd prefer to have managing the Cubs other than LaRussa. You're right, 9 out of 10 Cub fans would love to have him as the manager over Dusty, but personally I'd rather have a doped-up mule managing the team that Dusty.

[gus_dog]

On another note, how did a thread about LaRussa turn into Baker bashing?

 

It's called arguing besides the point. It is a tactic used to deflect attention from the actual subject, to something that is irrelevant so you can feel like you are 'winning' the argument.

 

The thread is about LaRussa (whom I happen to like, BTW), but his apologists try to divert it to Baker, and that is irrelevant. Baker's stupid moves & comments don't matter squat when discussing LaRussa's whining, but people brought up Baker to divert attention from LaRussa because LaRussa has no defence for being a whiny little baby.

 

In any event, LaRussa is a good manager, and a decent guy. His whining does get on my nerves though.

[DesMoinesCub]

So when LaRussa complains about the schedule it's whining, but when Cubs fans complain about the schedule it's legitimate?

 

The difference being that one is employed by the organization whose quotes are put in the media. The other is a typical fan. What is different about that?

 

Also, I for one would not want LaRussa managing the Cubs. No thanks. Any manager that allows someone to flip them off and not do anything about it is a manager that has no respect from his own players. Now you are going to say it was competition and stuff, but I don't agree. It has also been stated that TLR complains about Cox, when he is worse then Cox. Makes no sense. Dusty might say some stupid stuff, but he doesn't complain. TLR complains about stupid stuff.

[Catman61]

Also, I for one would not want LaRussa managing the Cubs. No thanks. Any manager that allows someone to flip them off and not do anything about it is a manager that has no respect from his own players.

 

He didn't do anything about it? Thats interesting, did you go into hibernation immediately after the camera showed Kline?

 

So how do you feel about managers that allow their players to flip off the crowd and do nothing about it?

[jjgman21]

So when LaRussa complains about the schedule it's whining, but when Cubs fans complain about the schedule it's legitimate?

 

The difference being that one is employed by the organization whose quotes are put in the media. The other is a typical fan. What is different about that?

 

Also, I for one would not want LaRussa managing the Cubs. No thanks. Any manager that allows someone to flip them off and not do anything about it is a manager that has no respect from his own players. Now you are going to say it was competition and stuff, but I don't agree. It has also been stated that TLR complains about Cox, when he is worse then Cox. Makes no sense. Dusty might say some stupid stuff, but he doesn't complain. TLR complains about stupid stuff.

 

to me the difference goes a little further. Cub fans complain about scheduling because the scheduling makes it more difficult for the Cubs to win baseball games that count. LaRussa whines about the schedule because his all-stars won't be fresh for the homerun derby.

 

there are other differences as well. for example, LaRussa preaches whining to his players. see Larry Walker, who NEVER complained to umpires before becoming a Cardinal, and now complains after every called strike, just like eye-liner boy.

 

and perhaps the most significant difference is this...LaRussa's whining actually makes a difference. he'll unnecesarily argue close plays where the ump clearly got it right, then get a 'make up' call sometime later in the game or series. let's compare a couple scenerios of whining last year

 

Maddux starts in StL and gets a fairly generous outside corner. LaRussa comes out to argue balls and strikes. not only is he not ejected, as is the rule, but the ump actually changes his strikezone to appease Larussa.

 

now let's look at Moises Alou last year. the guy has a bs strikezone all year. he complains about it, and the umps put him and the Cubs on a 'secret watch list'

 

or how about the hypocrisy. the Cards employe someone to sit in the scoreboard and signal pitches to Cards hitters. they pride themselves on stealing signs and are well known for it. of course the Cards are also the the biggest complainers when they suspect another team of stealing signs.

 

 

 

you beginning to see the difference there Cowboy?

[wolf stansson]

Also, I for one would not want LaRussa managing the Cubs. No thanks. Any manager that allows someone to flip them off and not do anything about it is a manager that has no respect from his own players.

 

Clearly you weren't paying much attention to Tony's "If Steve really did that than my foot is going to be on his throat in about 2 minutes" comment. Kline didn't get into a game for a week and was left on the DL longer than expected. Then of course, he wasn't resigned as is obviously not happy about being in Balitimore.

 

If you are insinuating that LaRussa's players don't respect him than you are just ignorant of the situation. Hopefully you aren't a Dusty fan saying that or I would be forced to bring up mulitple incidents from last year to illustrate Dusty's respect from his players.

[gus_dog]

Also, I for one would not want LaRussa managing the Cubs. No thanks. Any manager that allows someone to flip them off and not do anything about it is a manager that has no respect from his own players.

 

Clearly you weren't paying much attention to Tony's "If Steve really did that than my foot is going to be on his throat in about 2 minutes" comment. Kline didn't get into a game for a week and was left on the DL longer than expected. Then of course, he wasn't resigned as is obviously not happy about being in Balitimore.

 

If you are insinuating that LaRussa's players don't respect him than you are just ignorant of the situation. Hopefully you aren't a Dusty fan saying that or I would be forced to bring up mulitple incidents from last year to illustrate Dusty's respect from his players.

 

Again, I must reiterate that whatever Baker does, did, or says, is IRRELEVANT to his comment there. Baker is not the subject, nor the issue.

[vaball]

So when LaRussa complains about the schedule it's whining, but when Cubs fans complain about the schedule it's legitimate?

 

The difference being that one is employed by the organization whose quotes are put in the media. The other is a typical fan. What is different about that?

 

Also, I for one would not want LaRussa managing the Cubs. No thanks. Any manager that allows someone to flip them off and not do anything about it is a manager that has no respect from his own players. Now you are going to say it was competition and stuff, but I don't agree. It has also been stated that TLR complains about Cox, when he is worse then Cox. Makes no sense. Dusty might say some stupid stuff, but he doesn't complain. TLR complains about stupid stuff.

 

to me the difference goes a little further. Cub fans complain about scheduling because the scheduling makes it more difficult for the Cubs to win baseball games that count. LaRussa whines about the schedule because his all-stars won't be fresh for the homerun derby.

 

there are other differences as well. for example, LaRussa preaches whining to his players. see Larry Walker, who NEVER complained to umpires before becoming a Cardinal, and now complains after every called strike, just like eye-liner boy.

 

and perhaps the most significant difference is this...LaRussa's whining actually makes a difference. he'll unnecesarily argue close plays where the ump clearly got it right, then get a 'make up' call sometime later in the game or series. let's compare a couple scenerios of whining last year

 

Maddux starts in StL and gets a fairly generous outside corner. LaRussa comes out to argue balls and strikes. not only is he not ejected, as is the rule, but the ump actually changes his strikezone to appease Larussa.

 

now let's look at Moises Alou last year. the guy has a bs strikezone all year. he complains about it, and the umps put him and the Cubs on a 'secret watch list'

 

or how about the hypocrisy. the Cards employe someone to sit in the scoreboard and signal pitches to Cards hitters. they pride themselves on stealing signs and are well known for it. of course the Cards are also the the biggest complainers when they suspect another team of stealing signs.

 

 

 

you beginning to see the difference there Cowboy?

 

No, Partner, I ain't.

 

This whole thread began as another of many that dogs TLR for being a "whiner," the implication being that he should just shut up and manage and that whining in general is uncalled for.

 

Isn't it strange that whenever TLR whines, it's innapropriate, but when Cubs fans whine, it's justified? You are being just as big a Homer as you accuse me of being.

 

How on earth do you know that TLR "preaches" whining? You don't. Plain and simple.

 

Since when do the Cardinals employ somebody to steal signs from the upper deck scoreboard? That is an outrageous allegation.

 

And if TLR's complaining gets calls to go the Cards way then I'm all for it. Something tells me the players' execution has a little more to do with winning the games though. TLR will be the third winningest manager of all time before this season is over. He's doing something right.

[UK1679666180]

This whole thread began as another of many that dogs TLR for being a "whiner," the implication being that he should just shut up and manage and that whining in general is uncalled for.

 

Correctly so, in this case. He's a fine manager, but I fail to see the importance of mentioning this in a public forum, I doubt a reporter could set him up for that type of answer.

[wolf stansson]

Again, I must reiterate that whatever Baker does, did, or says, is IRRELEVANT to his comment there. Baker is not the subject, nor the issue.

It is relevant. It illustrates that as compared to another manager that DesMoinesCub knows a lot about, Tony doesn't let his players walk all over him. I wasn't arguing beside the point, I was using LaRussa's tactics as compared to Dusty's tactics as evidence to prove my point.

[gus_dog]

Again, I must reiterate that whatever Baker does, did, or says, is IRRELEVANT to his comment there. Baker is not the subject, nor the issue.

It is relevant. It illustrates that as compared to another manager that DesMoinesCub knows a lot about, Tony doesn't let his players walk all over him. I wasn't arguing beside the point, I was using LaRussa's tactics as compared to Dusty's tactics as evidence to prove my point.

 

I disagree, further, I would observe that Baker has no relevance whatsoever when observing a whining LaRussa. That is, unless he was whining about Baker (or Baker's Cubs), neither of which are the case here.

 

We'll just have to agree to disagree here, because I just do not see the point in bringing Baker into this thread whatsoever.

[vaball]

Again, I must reiterate that whatever Baker does, did, or says, is IRRELEVANT to his comment there. Baker is not the subject, nor the issue.

It is relevant. It illustrates that as compared to another manager that DesMoinesCub knows a lot about, Tony doesn't let his players walk all over him. I wasn't arguing beside the point, I was using LaRussa's tactics as compared to Dusty's tactics as evidence to prove my point.

 

I disagree, further, I would observe that Baker has no relevance whatsoever when observing a whining LaRussa. That is, unless he was whining about Baker (or Baker's Cubs), neither of which are the case here.

 

We'll just have to agree to disagree here, because I just do not see the point in bringing Baker into this thread whatsoever.

 

Bringing Baker into it is probably my fault as I was playing tit for tat. "Our manager is a whiner, well you's is an idiot." Something like that.

 

But bringing Baker in is relevent insofar as what people here are lambasting LaRussa for doing, complaining, is something that every single manager in MLB does as well. Tony is the target in this case because he is a Cardinal and this is a Cubs board. That's the simple truth and that's to be expected. Fine.

 

And to say that he is a hypocrite because he sometimes does what he accuses others of doing seems like a watered down criticism to me since every single person on this planet is guilty of the same thing at various times throughout their lives.

[MembersOnlyJacket]

What, can Tony and his babies not sleep on the flight back from SF ?

 

There are plenty of men and women up on the corporate ladder that fly across country for a couple days and take red eyes back to make a big meeting the next day. It's life.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

 

Bringing Baker into it is probably my fault as I was playing tit for tat. "Our manager is a whiner, well you's is an idiot." Something like that.

 

.

 

And isn't that a form of trolling? :-k

[Transmogrified Tiger]

 

Bringing Baker into it is probably my fault as I was playing tit for tat. "Our manager is a whiner, well you's is an idiot." Something like that.

 

.

 

And isn't that a form of trolling? :-k

 

What?

 

The thing that I found funny is that some people who complained about LaRussa will readily admit anything bad about Dusty Baker, making such a change in focus fruitless.

[MembersOnlyJacket]

Four teams get the Thursday after the All-Star break as an off day. One of those teams is the Cardinals.

 

Yep.

[SouthSideRyan]

Four teams get the Thursday after the All-Star break as an off day. One of those teams is the Cardinals.

 

Yep.

 

But the HR Derby!!

[DesMoinesCub]

No, I really don't know the situation as well as some of the Cardinal fans on the board because I don't give a crap about the Cardinals. I don't cheer for them, I don't follow them, I don't care about them. I watched the game, I saw Kline flip him off, I didn't see Tony really do anything about it. As a coach myself, if any player disrepects me in any way the guy isn't going to play for me. Tony may have said I would stick my foot up his butt, but I don't think he did. And if I remember Kline was still on the team during the World Series. I guess Tony talks the talk, but if he (Kline) helps win games, then he is going to be OK. I guess Tony does something right if Kline wants to comeback and play for him.

 

As far as Dusty, no he is not a great manager, but the thread isn't about that, and if I wanted to comment on him, I would go to one of the thousands of threads that bash him. I am just saying I would rather have him as a manager then TLR. That is it.

[indifferent]

No, I really don't know the situation as well as some of the Cardinal fans on the board because I don't give a crap about the Cardinals. I don't cheer for them, I don't follow them, I don't care about them. I watched the game, I saw Kline flip him off, I didn't see Tony really do anything about it. As a coach myself, if any player disrepects me in any way the guy isn't going to play for me. Tony may have said I would stick my foot up his butt, but I don't think he did. And if I remember Kline was still on the team during the World Series. I guess Tony talks the talk, but if he (Kline) helps win games, then he is going to be OK. I guess Tony does something right if Kline wants to comeback and play for him.

 

As far as Dusty, no he is not a great manager, but the thread isn't about that, and if I wanted to comment on him, I would go to one of the thousands of threads that bash him. I am just saying I would rather have him as a manager then TLR. That is it.

 

But Kline was hacked off during the WS because he wasn't there even though he was healthy. That was a Jocketty/LaRussa call. They didn't offer him in the offseason and he was one of their best pitchers last year. He wanted to stay.

[snoodmonger]

It must suck being on the business end of all that competitive fire 16 times per season.

 

I just want to take a moment to savor one of the most absurd sentences in recent NSBB history.

 

Solid work.

[vaball]

It must suck being on the business end of all that competitive fire 16 times per season.

 

I just want to take a moment to savor one of the most absurd sentences in recent NSBB history.

 

Solid work.

 

Thank you. I take that as a compliment since I didn't mean it seriously.

 

And, no Vance, I don't think that is trolling. It would be trolling if I started a thread called "Corey Patterson Sucks" or something like that.