Dear Cubs - don't let the Maddux option vest

[SouthSideRyan]

Bump. Not interested in paying $9M in 2006 for Greg Maddux to pitch like Jeff Suppan.

 

I'll be sure to bump after every good Maddux outing. Don't be ridiculous.

[rickrolled]

Maddux struggled in the first half last year as well and still won 16 games while posting an ERA of 4.00. I'm confident he'll do the same this year.

[goonys evil twin]

Bump. Not interested in paying $9M in 2006 for Greg Maddux to pitch like Jeff Suppan.

 

I'll be sure to bump after every good Maddux outing. Don't be ridiculous.

 

Why is it ridiculous to suggest Maddux isn't pitching like a $9 million pitcher and he is unlikely to pitch like a $9 million next year? Why is it wrong to not want to see that much of the payroll tied into a pitcher who just isn't all that great anymore?

[Backtobanks]

I'm a big Maddux fan, but if Mitre continues pitching the way he has the last 2 games Maddux becomes expendable. A contender would love to have someone like Maddux and the $13.5 million over the next year and a half would look good in the Cub coffers. Also, if a contender really wants Maddux, the Cubs might get a top prospect or a role player to help the team. With Rusch and Mitre pitching well, Zambrano and Maddux being their usual selves, and Wood and Prior returning soon, the Cubs are in a good position for a trade.

[TruffleShuffle]

Bump. Not interested in paying $9M in 2006 for Greg Maddux to pitch like Jeff Suppan.

 

I'll be sure to bump after every good Maddux outing. Don't be ridiculous.

 

Problem is, there haven't been that many good outings. There have been a couple of good games, a large number of average performances and then a couple of bad games. Maddux has had an average ERA+ of around 109 the last two years; Suppan has been around 103. Given that Suppan is 30 and Maddux is 40, it's likely that Maddux will continue regressing whereas Suppan may only regress a bit. Therefore, it's very reasonable to expect Maddux to pitch about as well as Jeff Suppan next year... and if the option vests for Maddux, he'll likely be making at least twice what Suppan is making. It's a terrible waste of $4-5M for a team that doesn't have unlimited resources.

 

 

 

Backtobanks, the problem is that every other team in baseball knows Maddux is not worth anywhere close to $9M next year. If the Cubs want to trade him, and it appears his option will vest, they'll have to eat about $5M of next year's salary and possibly some of his salary for the rest of this year as well. A prospect would be nice, but I don't know how great of a prospect we'll get for a guy who isn't much better than average at this point. The best case scenario for the Cubs would be to simply not have his option vest next year, IMO.

[William142]

The guy is old now. His ERA+ the last two seasons has been 105 and 113, and if the first quarter is any indication it's not going to be any better this year.

 

He won 16 games last year and the year before after getting off to a similar start. Not to mention having him in the clubhouse cannot hurt the young pitchers the cubs have. If he pitches 400 innings in these two years, that should be an indication that he is pitching well enough to keep for a third year.

[TruffleShuffle]

The guy is old now. His ERA+ the last two seasons has been 105 and 113, and if the first quarter is any indication it's not going to be any better this year.

 

He won 16 games last year and the year before after getting off to a similar start. Not to mention having him in the clubhouse cannot hurt the young pitchers the cubs have. If he pitches 400 innings in these two years, that should be an indication that he is pitching well enough to keep for a third year.

 

Wins are a lousy stat and are too dependent on offensive support. I heard a lot about how great Maddux would be for the young pitchers, but to this point a lot of the young guys they've brought up have had trouble sticking. Suppan has pitched 200 innings just about every full season he's been in the majors; I don't think this means he's pitched well enough to merit $9M in any given season.

[YearofDaCubs]

If I had a choice I would give the 9mil to Burnett and have him signed but that's another story. We should've never given Maddux an option year. 2 would of been ok.

[NCCubFan]

Maddux struggled in the first half last year as well and still won 16 games while posting an ERA of 4.00. I'm confident he'll do the same this year.

Not just last year; he did almost the same thing for Atlanta in 2003.

[Laura]

Today pretty much stunk all the way around.

 

At least the two balls bouncing out of the ivy in RF when one ball went in provided some comic relief. I'll have to look up that part of the game thread.

 

All I can say is what I've said before: Maddux is likely overpaid, but I also recognize that he was being paid to pitch the innings that he so far has pitched. If that was going to be a problem for the Cubs, they shouldn't have included the vesting option, because I would bet on Maddux getting his 200 IPs in. He's not fragile.

 

Something was up with him today in that he was swearing after getting pitches that were actually strikes in the second inning. I guess he just knew he was missing his spots. If it were someone else, I'd wonder if it were an injury issue, but I just don't think he had it today.

 

I hope Rich Hill worked through some jitters today.

[BigbadB]

I'm telling ya, San Diego is a perfect fit for Maddux. All those fly balls he serves up that clear the fence these days would be long fly ball outs in Petco. Maddux could get his ERA back down to 3.00 or even lower pitching in such a pitcher friendly park so regularly.

 

The Padres could give up a decent prospect in return for us picking up a portion of the salary due Maddux in 2006 and everyone ends up happy.

 

It's not he would be getting dumped. He'd be going to a team he considered signing with, a team that is also in first place, a team that has a ballpark that is designed for his style of pitching, a team in dire need of starting pitching, a team close to where he lives.

 

The Cubs have plenty of pitching when everyone comes back. At that time, I'd definitely consider moving Maddux and hopefully Maddux would approve of the move.

[BigbadB]

Today pretty much stunk all the way around.

 

At least the two balls bouncing out of the ivy in RF when one ball went in provided some comic relief. I'll have to look up that part of the game thread.

 

All I can say is what I've said before: Maddux is likely overpaid, but I also recognize that he was being paid to pitch the innings that he so far has pitched. If that was going to be a problem for the Cubs, they shouldn't have included the vesting option, because I would bet on Maddux getting his 200 IPs in. He's not fragile.

 

Something was up with him today in that he was swearing after getting pitches that were actually strikes in the second inning. I guess he just knew he was missing his spots. If it were someone else, I'd wonder if it were an injury issue, but I just don't think he had it today.

 

I hope Rich Hill worked through some jitters today.

 

He just hung a couple of breaking pitches. He did plenty of fooling of opposing hitters as well. I liked what I saw, what little there was to see. To his benefit, the Marlins bats were hot today and they made many other Cub pitchers look bad.

[Flames24Rulz]

exactly Serena. He is a little overpaid, but try to name me 3 better number 4 starters in the majors. The last 3 years he's gotten off to slow starts, but we know the last 2, he's been a 2nd half pitcher and a pretty good one at that. Maddux does deserve most of the blame for today's lost, but certainly not all of it. The pen was definitely not good, the offense didn't wake up until we were down by 15 in the 7th and that was pretty much it.

 

way too soon to give up on Maddux. I would almost gurantee he will come back and win 15, but i know someone would save my post for October if he doesn't win 15 and i'd have my face rubbed in for the whole offseason :P

[Flames24Rulz]

I'm telling ya, San Diego is a perfect fit for Maddux. All those fly balls he serves up that clear the fence these days would be long fly ball outs in Petco. Maddux could get his ERA back down to 3.00 or even lower pitching in such a pitcher friendly park so regularly.

 

The Padres could give up a decent prospect in return for us picking up a portion of the salary due Maddux in 2006 and everyone ends up happy.

 

It's not he would be getting dumped. He'd be going to a team he considered signing with, a team that is also in first place, a team that has a ballpark that is designed for his style of pitching, a team in dire need of starting pitching, a team close to where he lives.

 

The Cubs have plenty of pitching when everyone comes back. At that time, I'd definitely consider moving Maddux and hopefully Maddux would approve of the move.

 

last i checked we were still in the WC and even the division race. Why would we trade one of the guys in our rotation for a prospect? It doesnt make sense. I'd only trade Maddux to San Diego if we could get Giles :P

[Laura]

I'm telling ya, San Diego is a perfect fit for Maddux. All those fly balls he serves up that clear the fence these days would be long fly ball outs in Petco. Maddux could get his ERA back down to 3.00 or even lower pitching in such a pitcher friendly park so regularly.

 

The Padres could give up a decent prospect in return for us picking up a portion of the salary due Maddux in 2006 and everyone ends up happy.

 

It's not he would be getting dumped. He'd be going to a team he considered signing with, a team that is also in first place, a team that has a ballpark that is designed for his style of pitching, a team in dire need of starting pitching, a team close to where he lives.

 

The Cubs have plenty of pitching when everyone comes back. At that time, I'd definitely consider moving Maddux and hopefully Maddux would approve of the move.

 

San Diego is one of the few places I could see as being a really good fit.

 

I still think, though -- and I admit I may be completely deluded on this -- that Maddux did come back to Chicago with the expectation that the Cubs would be a winning team, and that he really would like to be part of that happening. I don't think he's leaving unless he really believes that there's no chance or that the improvement with him leaving would be enough for the team to succeed (and it's really hard for anyone to believe that leaving a team would make that team all that much better, and I wouldn't expect Maddux to buy into that notion easily).

[CubfaninCA]

Maddux has made a crapload of money in his career and I'm not going to cry if the Cubs short him a few innings. He's not worth $9 mil. Maybe $4 million. This is a business... Not some charitable organization for the wealthy.

[SouthSideRyan]

Bump. Not interested in paying $9M in 2006 for Greg Maddux to pitch like Jeff Suppan.

 

I'll be sure to bump after every good Maddux outing. Don't be ridiculous.

 

Why is it ridiculous to suggest Maddux isn't pitching like a $9 million pitcher and he is unlikely to pitch like a $9 million next year? Why is it wrong to not want to see that much of the payroll tied into a pitcher who just isn't all that great anymore?

 

It's ridiculous to bump after a bad start and use that bad start as evidence that he shouldn't be back.

[BigbadB]

I'm telling ya, San Diego is a perfect fit for Maddux. All those fly balls he serves up that clear the fence these days would be long fly ball outs in Petco. Maddux could get his ERA back down to 3.00 or even lower pitching in such a pitcher friendly park so regularly.

 

The Padres could give up a decent prospect in return for us picking up a portion of the salary due Maddux in 2006 and everyone ends up happy.

 

It's not he would be getting dumped. He'd be going to a team he considered signing with, a team that is also in first place, a team that has a ballpark that is designed for his style of pitching, a team in dire need of starting pitching, a team close to where he lives.

 

The Cubs have plenty of pitching when everyone comes back. At that time, I'd definitely consider moving Maddux and hopefully Maddux would approve of the move.

 

last i checked we were still in the WC and even the division race. Why would we trade one of the guys in our rotation for a prospect? It doesnt make sense. I'd only trade Maddux to San Diego if we could get Giles :P

 

Yes, we are still in a wild card race. When Prior and Wood make it back and prove healthy, we will have a glut of starting pitching and we may still be hurting for an extra bat offensively. If you pencil in Zambrano, Prior, Wood, Rusch and Mitre, Maddux can be expendable. Will Maddux be a more effective pitcher than Rusch or Mitre over the course of the rest of the year? No one knows. I'm not saying to trade him now. I'm saying to look at this situation when Prior and Wood are both back and healthy and at the trade deadline when another bat might mean the difference in the playoffs or sitting and watching the playoffs on tv.

[Laura]

I'm keeping my fingers crossed with Wood that he can hit the ground running and be effective. Because if he's not, that's going to be a problem.

 

Hopefully, the extra time working on his mechanics, etc, will pay off in the long run.

[NCCubFan]

Maddux has made a crapload of money in his career and I'm not going to cry if the Cubs short him a few innings. He's not worth $9 mil. Maybe $4 million. This is a business... Not some charitable organization for the wealthy.

It would be classless for the Cubs to sabotage Maddux, and I think there's about a zero percent chance they will. It would be one thing if the Cubs legitimately have five starting pitchers better than Maddux (since the team is in a pennant race they need to use their five best starters, regardless of who they are). As long as Maddux is one of the five best, however, the Cubs need to pitch him regardless of the option. First, from a competitive standpoint, using the pitchers who give them the best chance to win this year is more important than avoiding the option next year. Second, intentionally sabotaging a player to avoid an option would likely make playing for the Cubs seem very unattractive to potential free agents. Who'd want to play for a team that will give you a vesting option, only to sabotage it if they later decide they want to avoid the option? The bottom line is that the Cubs gave him the option, now they need to live with it.

[Larry Horse]

I'm keeping my fingers crossed with Wood that he can hit the ground running and be effective. Because if he's not, that's going to be a problem.

 

Hopefully, the extra time working on his mechanics, etc, will pay off in the long run.

 

Serena, he will be the same old Wood. Get him healthy and trade him. I've had enough of "balsa".

[Backtobanks]

Bump. Not interested in paying $9M in 2006 for Greg Maddux to pitch like Jeff Suppan.

 

I'll be sure to bump after every good Maddux outing. Don't be ridiculous.

 

Problem is, there haven't been that many good outings. There have been a couple of good games, a large number of average performances and then a couple of bad games. Maddux has had an average ERA+ of around 109 the last two years; Suppan has been around 103. Given that Suppan is 30 and Maddux is 40, it's likely that Maddux will continue regressing whereas Suppan may only regress a bit. Therefore, it's very reasonable to expect Maddux to pitch about as well as Jeff Suppan next year... and if the option vests for Maddux, he'll likely be making at least twice what Suppan is making. It's a terrible waste of $4-5M for a team that doesn't have unlimited resources.

 

 

 

Backtobanks, the problem is that every other team in baseball knows Maddux is not worth anywhere close to $9M next year. If the Cubs want to trade him, and it appears his option will vest, they'll have to eat about $5M of next year's salary and possibly some of his salary for the rest of this year as well. A prospect would be nice, but I don't know how great of a prospect we'll get for a guy who isn't much better than average at this point. The best case scenario for the Cubs would be to simply not have his option vest next year, IMO.

 

I still think that a contender with a decent bullpen and offense will look at Maddux's record as a second-half pitcher and be interested. If the Cubs have to pay $4-5 million next year, that's still clearing about $9 million off of the Cubs coffers in the next year and half. You put him in Petco Park and he could very well be a #3 starter for this year and next.

[Mark_R]

Maddux has made a crapload of money in his career and I'm not going to cry if the Cubs short him a few innings. He's not worth $9 mil. Maybe $4 million. This is a business... Not some charitable organization for the wealthy.

It would be classless for the Cubs to sabotage Maddux, and I think there's about a zero percent chance they will. It would be one thing if the Cubs legitimately have five starting pitchers better than Maddux (since the team is in a pennant race they need to use their five best starters, regardless of who they are). As long as Maddux is one of the five best, however, the Cubs need to pitch him regardless of the option. First, from a competitive standpoint, using the pitchers who give them the best chance to win this year is more important than avoiding the option next year. Second, intentionally sabotaging a player to avoid an option would likely make playing for the Cubs seem very unattractive to potential free agents. Who'd want to play for a team that will give you a vesting option, only to sabotage it if they later decide they want to avoid the option? The bottom line is that the Cubs gave him the option, now they need to live with it.

 

It has happened in football before, I'm sure. And when Wood and Prior are healthy, can't a LEGIT case be made that Rusch and Mitre are pitching better than Maddux to drop him out of the rotation?

 

I don't have an issue with Maddux's performance as a "number four" starter, I have an issue with Maddux pitching like a number four starter for nine million dollars.

[goonys evil twin]

Bump. Not interested in paying $9M in 2006 for Greg Maddux to pitch like Jeff Suppan.

 

I'll be sure to bump after every good Maddux outing. Don't be ridiculous.

 

Why is it ridiculous to suggest Maddux isn't pitching like a $9 million pitcher and he is unlikely to pitch like a $9 million next year? Why is it wrong to not want to see that much of the payroll tied into a pitcher who just isn't all that great anymore?

 

It's ridiculous to bump after a bad start and use that bad start as evidence that he shouldn't be back.

 

It would be ridiculous if that was the only bad start. But it hasn't been. He's had plenty of bad starts the past year and a half. And overall he's been nowhere near a $9 million pitcher.

[NCCubFan]

It has happened in football before, I'm sure.

Football is different because of the salary cap. Contracts aren't guaranteed, and players are frequently cut in the middle of long-term contracts. I think players frequently sign for longer periods of time than the team actually plans to keep them because that allows signing bonuses to be spread over more years.

And when Wood and Prior are healthy' date=' can't a LEGIT case be made that Rusch and Mitre are pitching better than Maddux to drop him out of the rotation?[/quote']It depends on whether Rusch and Mitre continue to pitch as well as they have. If they do, then the case could be made, and I'd have no problem with it. I have nothing against not starting Maddux if he isn't one of the five best starters. The only problem I'd have is if he were one of the five best but not starting solely to avoid the option.