Post Winter Meetings Free Agency thread

[We Got The Whole 9]

I didn't realize Pablo is so young. I'd far prefer him to Castillo.

[Rcal10]

10 minutes ago, Bertz said:

I know a couple folks have been pushing for us to be the team that lets Jeff Hoffman try starting again.  I think I might be coming around to that post Luzardo.

Why do the Cubs need to think like that? Why not trade for or pay a real starting pitcher? They have $40M to work with and still plenty of prospects they can trade. As a major market team why do they have to mess around and try to fit square pegs in round holes? Just get the good starting pitcher. 

[Post Count Padder]

How is Pablo Lopez still just 28. I was thinking it would be fun to pry Joe Ryan away from there but Lopez is interesting. Still three more years under his current contract, which is not unreasonable. Looking at their depth, not sure what they'd be most interested in as a return. I do also love Griffin Jax. If we could find a way to get both for, say, Alcantara and Ballesteros and Wicks??

 

[Rcal10]

13 minutes ago, We Got The Whole 9 said:

I didn't realize Pablo is so young. I'd far prefer him to Castillo.

I like Lopez too. But he does make $21M a year for 3 more years. If they got him they would only have $19M left to spend on improving the pen, a guy for cover for Shaw and at times Busch and maybe another bench bat or another pen arm. 

[Rcal10]

5 minutes ago, Post Count Padder said:

How is Pablo Lopez still just 28. I was thinking it would be fun to pry Joe Ryan away from there but Lopez is interesting. Still three more years under his current contract, which is not unreasonable. Looking at their depth, not sure what they'd be most interested in as a return. I do also love Griffin Jax. If we could find a way to get both for, say, Alcantara and Ballesteros and Wicks??

 

While we are at it, why not get Castro too? 

[Post Count Padder]

3 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

While we are at it, why not get Castro too? 

I mean, why not. Get all our shopping done at once.

[Bertz]

18 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

Why do the Cubs need to think like that? Why not trade for or pay a real starting pitcher? They have $40M to work with and still plenty of prospects they can trade. As a major market team why do they have to mess around and try to fit square pegs in round holes? Just get the good starting pitcher. 

Seth Lugo, Garret Crochet, Nick Martinez, Michael King, Reynaldo Lopez are all recently converted SPs and were all Top 25 pitchers in baseball last year.  

[We Got The Whole 9]

25 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

Why do the Cubs need to think like that? Why not trade for or pay a real starting pitcher? They have $40M to work with and still plenty of prospects they can trade. As a major market team why do they have to mess around and try to fit square pegs in round holes? Just get the good starting pitcher. 

 

3 minutes ago, Bertz said:

Seth Lugo, Garret Crochet, Nick Martinez, Michael King, Reynaldo Lopez are all recently converted SPs and were all Top 25 pitchers in baseball last year.  

That's actually pretty amazing. We don't need to think so rigidly. You can find amazing value this way. 

[We Got The Whole 9]

25 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

I like Lopez too. But he does make $21M a year for 3 more years. If they got him they would only have $19M left to spend on improving the pen, a guy for cover for Shaw and at times Busch and maybe another bench bat or another pen arm. 

Again I hope they don't spend big on the bench. I hate the idea. There's so many prospects that we need to start integrating this year. Buy 2 of the best pen arms you can get for 20, give 20 to a SP and call it a winter.

[KCCub]

10 minutes ago, Bertz said:

Seth Lugo, Garret Crochet, Nick Martinez, Michael King, Reynaldo Lopez are all recently converted SPs and were all Top 25 pitchers in baseball last year.  

I am pro this approach in general, but after already signing Boyd, innings becomes my concern. I think if this is the route they go, you have to plan on adding a big arm at the trade deadline that you feel good about starting in a playoff series. 

[Bertz]

5 minutes ago, KCCub said:

I am pro this approach in general, but after already signing Boyd, innings becomes my concern. I think if this is the route they go, you have to plan on adding a big arm at the trade deadline that you feel good about starting in a playoff series. 

You'd be surprised how many innings converters give you.  They seem to average 120-130.  Like even Jordan Hicks, probably the biggest fail among these conversion attempts, gave SFG 109 innings last year.

I think too, at least for me I've basically chalked up that in a SP trade someone in the Assad/Wicks/Brown trio is gone.  If you do handle SP via trade you're adding a SP, not swapping one.  Between Poteet and the kids we already had on hand there is depth for a long reliever and an entire additional starting 5 at Iowa of guys you would be happy to give some MLB innings to next year.

[Rcal10]

13 minutes ago, We Got The Whole 9 said:

Again I hope they don't spend big on the bench. I hate the idea. There's so many prospects that we need to start integrating this year. Buy 2 of the best pen arms you can get for 20, give 20 to a SP and call it a winter.

I can see the argument against spending big on a bench bat. But I would like one, at least. Maybe spend $32M to $35M on a starting pitcher and 2 pen arms and $5M to $8M on someone who can cover 3rd and 1st. Castro makes $6.8. The bench would be Kelly, Canario, Workman and Castro. I don’t like the idea of all 3 non back up catcher spots taken by unproven players. 

[Rcal10]

26 minutes ago, Bertz said:

You'd be surprised how many innings converters give you.  They seem to average 120-130.  Like even Jordan Hicks, probably the biggest fail among these conversion attempts, gave SFG 109 innings last year.

I think too, at least for me I've basically chalked up that in a SP trade someone in the Assad/Wicks/Brown trio is gone.  If you do handle SP via trade you're adding a SP, not swapping one.  Between Poteet and the kids we already had on hand there is depth for a long reliever and an entire additional starting 5 at Iowa of guys you would be happy to give some MLB innings to next year.

Because they have 4 guys who may pitch 550- 600 innings between them I would like to get a guy you can count on for 170+ innings. I understand it could work. And you have great examples of it working. But I would rather they get a guy who is a starting pitcher now. I would rather they get an established starting pitcher.. 

Edited December 19, 2024 by Rcal10

[We Got The Whole 9]

16 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

I can see the argument against spending big on a bench bat. But I would like one, at least. Maybe spend $32M to $35M on a starting pitcher and 2 pen arms and $5M to $8M on someone who can cover 3rd and 1st. Castro makes $6.8. The bench would be Kelly, Canario, Workman and Castro. I don’t like the idea of all 3 non back up catcher spots taken by unproven players. 

We had 4 unproven players carry us to the NLCS once

[Rcal10]

4 minutes ago, We Got The Whole 9 said:

We had 4 unproven players carry us to the NLCS once

Canario, Workman and Cowles are not the same as Baez, Russell, Contreras and Bryant. All of those guys came up to start. The guys you want on the bench aren’t even the best prospects the Cubs have. 

[Rcal10]

1 hour ago, Post Count Padder said:

I mean, why not. Get all our shopping done at once.

That is my thought. Then one more pen arm and they are done until Sasaki decides. 

[Bertz]

31 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

Because they have 4 guys who may pitch 550- 600 innings between them I would like to get a guy you can count on for 170+ innings. I understand it could work. And you have great examples of it working. But I would rather they get a guy who is a starting pitcher now. I would rather they get an established starting pitcher.. 

37 pitchers hit 170 innings in 2023.  16 of them, more than 40%, failed to get to at least 150 last year.

[Backtobanks]

2 hours ago, Rcal10 said:

I like Lopez too. But he does make $21M a year for 3 more years. If they got him they would only have $19M left to spend on improving the pen, a guy for cover for Shaw and at times Busch and maybe another bench bat or another pen arm. 

If the Padres would kick in some money, Arraez would be nice to have on the bench/3B support.   

[We Got The Whole 9]

38 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

Canario, Workman and Cowles are not the same as Baez, Russell, Contreras and Bryant. All of those guys came up to start. The guys you want on the bench aren’t even the best prospects the Cubs have. 

Good thing they only need to be bench players then. We have plenty of offense, we don't need to spend precious dollars on the bench, especially when we have 5 more top 100 prospects in Iowa and big needs in the pen and rotation. They have a backup C, a lefty masher that can cover all 3 OF spots if needed, and 2 guys who can spell all over the IF. Those guys aren't spring chickens and they've been productive prospects that project to be around 85 wRC+.

 

I'd be fine if they traded for one but not at a 7M price tag. 

[Tryptamine]

Really wish the Cubs had been in on Milner. He would have been a very nice option and real cheap.

[We Got The Whole 9]

Cubs have enough George Clinton. They need some Bruce Dickinson.

[Stratos]

4 hours ago, Rcal10 said:

Canario, Workman and Cowles are not the same as Baez, Russell, Contreras and Bryant. All of those guys came up to start. The guys you want on the bench aren’t even the best prospects the Cubs have. 

If those guys are projected bench players don't they belong on the bench?  Why spend money on the bench when that money can be used on better starting players?

Everyone is unproven until they play.

[Rcal10]

3 minutes ago, Stratos said:

If those guys are projected bench players don't they belong on the bench?  Why spend money on the bench when that money can be used on better starting players?

Everyone is unproven until they play.

They have $40M to spend. What pitching is going to cost $40M? Why not one bench guy with major league experience. This fan base complained all year about Mastrobouni and Wisdom being in the bench and now they don’t want to spend any money to put a proven major leaguer in the bench. There is enough money available for 2 pen arms and a starting pitcher and still get a bench bat. No one is suggesting spending $20M on two bench bats. Just one bat with a max payroll of $5M to $8M is not going to stop them from getting a solid starting pitcher and a couple of pen arms. If they can do it for less that is fine. But there is no sense skimping on a bench bat to spend on pitching. Plenty of money for both. 

[We Got The Whole 9]

1 hour ago, Rcal10 said:

They have $40M to spend. What pitching is going to cost $40M? Why not one bench guy with major league experience. This fan base complained all year about Mastrobouni and Wisdom being in the bench and now they don’t want to spend any money to put a proven major leaguer in the bench. There is enough money available for 2 pen arms and a starting pitcher and still get a bench bat. No one is suggesting spending $20M on two bench bats. Just one bat with a max payroll of $5M to $8M is not going to stop them from getting a solid starting pitcher and a couple of pen arms. If they can do it for less that is fine. But there is no sense skimping on a bench bat to spend on pitching. Plenty of money for both. 

The pen lacking legit lethal weapons has kind of been the bugaboo for the last 5 years, more than the bench. I can spend 20 easy on 2 RP and I'm not sacrificing the quality of the SP I get so I can go from Mastrobuoni to like Chris Coghlan. Spend that horsefeathers on Scott and Yates, build a powerful bullpen. They're way more lethal and instrumental to team success these days to the guys getting 150 PA. 

 

Ideally for me:

 

• Blow it all on Burnes and hope you can squeeze a guy like Minter in with a backloaded 2 year deal.
• Get Flaherty (who's market has skepticism due to 5 years of suckage and bad postseason numbers, but who offers the most upside not attached to a QO - may end up signing for 20 AAV reading the tea leaves) and Scott.
• Trade for Castillo/Lopez/et al and add Minter and Yates 
• Sign Hoffman to convert and add Scott and Yates

 

I'll spoon Jed after that. 

Edited December 20, 2024 by We Got The Whole 9

[Stratos]

2 hours ago, Rcal10 said:

They have $40M to spend. What pitching is going to cost $40M? Why not one bench guy with major league experience. This fan base complained all year about Mastrobouni and Wisdom being in the bench and now they don’t want to spend any money to put a proven major leaguer in the bench. There is enough money available for 2 pen arms and a starting pitcher and still get a bench bat. No one is suggesting spending $20M on two bench bats. Just one bat with a max payroll of $5M to $8M is not going to stop them from getting a solid starting pitcher and a couple of pen arms. If they can do it for less that is fine. But there is no sense skimping on a bench bat to spend on pitching. Plenty of money for both. 

Well you could easily spend 40m on 2 good relievers and a SP.  The bench money can be the difference between Buehler and Flaherty.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to get a bench bat that can cover both 2b and 3b since we have some questions there.  For the OF we have 4 starters so no real need there, we can use Canario.  An injury could bring up Caissie.