Winter Meetings thread

[Cuzi]

1 minute ago, CubinNY said:

Depending on who they get for Bellinger, they may need two bats, a guy who can play OF (maybe Canerio fills that spot, barely), and I guy who can play 1B unless they go let the young guys play and fill the role with OWNKC

Paredes can play 1B and Shaw brought up to play 3B.

[CubinNY]

Just now, Cuzi said:

Paredes can play 1B and Shaw brought up to play 3B.

is that so?

[Cuzi]

1 minute ago, CubinNY said:

is that so?

He's played like 15-20 games at first for the last 3 years on the Rays.

[Tryptamine]

Just now, Cuzi said:

He's played like 15-20 games at first for the last 3 years on the Rays.

Yeah, but his bat plays a lot better at 3B. If you move him to 1B full time he becomes like a 2 fWAR player rather than the guy who has averaged almost 3.5 fWAR over the last 3 years. 

Edited December 9, 2024 by Tryptamine

[Cuzi]

Just now, Tryptamine said:

Yeah, but his bat plays a lot better at 3B. If you move him to 1B full time he's becomes like a 2 fWAR player rather than the guy who has averaged almost 3.5 fWAR over the last 3 years. 

Who is talking about moving him to 1B fulltime? We are talking about spot starts/injuries.

[Jason Ross]

11 minutes ago, Bertz said:

If you're spreading the money around, there's no reason to filter out guys like Goldschmidt or Joc. who are not direct upgrades. That's the whole point, Bellinger's $25M becomes e.g. 2 guys at $10M a piece and another at $5M.  

Well...one I didn't filter out Joc...I left him in that group in the middle. So to be clear; I think Pederson is fine. I don't share optimism on Goldschmidt and feel like we're kind of seeing end-game Paul Goldschmidt. This isn't necessarily designed to be a "bash Goldy" post, but consider me 100% out on him unless it's like a Patrick Wisdom replacement. Regardless that's not the point of our discussion.

The point is that they could spread that money out...but damn I think that's the wrong path with this roster. With limited places that need upgrading (right now, it's like SP and the BP, and if you trade Bellinger, you can add in one offensive player) the team isn't lacking for depth options. Sure, they'll offer value, and I don't think that the Cubs will be bad for it. But opportunity cost wise, this offseason is screaming for the Cubs to consolidate wins into those limited roster spaces. And they can still do that with trades - please don't get me wrong here, I'm aware there's a wide variety of things they can do! But I'm not a massive fan of moving one player for three on a roster that really needs impact in specific areas. It needs a front line starter, it needs a position player who's going to get 3-4 wins of value. I think that's the way forward. And they can maybe find one that way, but I'd really like to start eliminating variance by getting players you can really feel more confident on, too.

So I have a bit of an uneasy feeling if they're looking to just trade Bellinger and spread it around. I'm okay trading Bellinger. I just...kind of hope there's a more specific vision? 

[Bertz]

8 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

Depending on who they get for Bellinger, they may need two bats, a guy who can play OF (maybe Canerio fills that spot, barely), and I guy who can play 1B unless they go let the young guys play and fill the role with OWNKC

Yeah, trading Bellinger and cutting Tauchman makes someone who can cover CF an underrated roster need.  

Unless maybe they simply bring Tauchman back?  Wouldn't be unprecedented, they cut Leiter early last winter and brought him back a few months later.

[Tryptamine]

Just now, Cuzi said:

Who is talking about moving him to 1B fulltime? We are talking about spot starts/injuries.

So then the plan is Shaw is your DH? Occasionally filling in at 3B and 2B?

[Cuzi]

Just now, Tryptamine said:

So then the plan is Shaw is your DH? Occasionally filling in at 3B and 2B?

"Called up." The plan is Shaw is in AAA unless something goes down.

[Bertz]

1 minute ago, 1908_Cubs said:

With limited places that need upgrading (right now, it's like SP and the BP, and if you trade Bellinger, you can add in one offensive player) the team isn't lacking for depth options.

The team is ABSOLUTELY lacking depth options on the position player side.  They have zero veteran depth options aside from Matt Thaiss.  It is the starting lineup and the prospects at Iowa with nothing of quality in between 

[Tryptamine]

Just now, Bertz said:

The team is ABSOLUTELY lacking depth options on the position player side.  They have zero veteran depth options aside from Matt Thaiss.  It is the starting lineup and the prospects at Iowa with nothing of quality in between 

This. Right now your ML Bench is something like Thaiss/Mastrobuoni/Canario/Vazquez/Mervis. You'd actively have to try and make a worse bench than that.

[Bertz]

10 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

This. Right now your ML Bench is something like Thaiss/Mastrobuoni/Canario/Vazquez/Mervis. You'd actively have to try and make a worse bench than that.

[Jason Ross]

15 minutes ago, Bertz said:

pThe team is ABSOLUTELY lacking depth options on the position player side.  They have zero veteran depth options aside from Matt Thaiss.  It is the starting lineup and the prospects at Iowa with nothing of quality in between 

They are lacking a bench, I don't disagree there (I probably could change my initial wording - I'll concede). However, the Cubs have $25m-$30m left to spend. That's more than enough for a BP arm ($10m or so), a backup outfielder $7m or so) and a backup catcher ($7m or so). You'd have plenty of prospect firepower to still add a SP. You can probably find a backup OF'er cheaper than $7m if you wait that market out - bring back Tauchmann, if you're so inclined.

Again, I would like a defined plan here from the Cubs side of things.  Bellinger is a good player, and a player who's worth probably three wins or so. While the Cubs could probably replace him and definitely need a bench and I feel like they can probably get most of the way there as is. If not all the way there. 

I'm not even accusing the Cubs of not having a plan., I stated my wishes. I'm not a massive fan of the "wait out the entire market" as the primary offseason battle strategy (and explained why in another post). If there's a positive, I don't think that they're going to do that as is - we've seen that they're reportedly interested in trades, Maddie Lee confirmed the Mariners/Sox three way thing was real (adding more validity to it). I think the Cubs have a creative spark this year and are not going to just aim at guys to fill out rosters or hope that they can get guys for cheap later.

[Cuzi]

I personally dont care about the bench all that much. As long as we have a legit starting lineup and at least 1 Patrick Wisdom type bench bat, I'm good. If injuries happen to the infield/outfield then call up the rookies, that is why we are hoarding them, right?

I'm really more concerned about finding 1 more starting pitcher and a decent catcher.

Edited December 9, 2024 by Cuzi

[CubinNY]

6 minutes ago, Cuzi said:

I personally dont care about the bench all that much. As long as we have a legit starting lineup and at least 1 Patrick Wisdom type bench bat, I'm good. If injuries happen to the infield/outfield then call up the rookies, that is why we are hoarding them, right?

I'm really more concerned about finding 1 more starting pitcher and a decent catcher.

It's a good thing injuries are not a factor during the baseball season. 

Edited December 9, 2024 by CubinNY

[Cuzi]

2 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

It's a good thing injuries are not a factor during the baseball season. 

It's a good thing I factored those in.

[We Got The Whole 9]

I said all along they should go big or go home and they went a tier below mid. They didn't need to spend on FA for the bench IMO, that can be addressed in several ways and they have a few guys knocking on the door that they would like to have at the ready who may need to step into a minor timeshare sooner than expected or may be full-on thrust into the action due to injury. But Matthew horsefeathers Boyd. I may turn out to be wrong, maybe this is another Lilly or Feldman signing, but right now I absolutely hate that we spent 15M on this guy instead of just giving the whole wad to Soto or going Flaherty + Robertson/Scott. I hope it blows up in Hawkins's face as this has his fingerprints all over it. 

 

Spending 15M on the bench was always just an awful idea to me though. Go make some trades and get guys who are being pushed out by young talent but profile well for bench roles and ride out their cheap salaries. Ride your starters, and if they get hurt, turn this bitch into 2014 again and let's see the young guys get integrated. 

[gocubs218]

 

[Banedon]

1 hour ago, TomtheBombadil said:

Oh my word, they’ll have to compete? Fine, excused

I love the algorithm…

FA expected to be paid: Cubs out because money

FA literally can’t be paid: Cubs out because they have to compete lol 

I mean, of those two scenarios, the one to be mad about is them crying poor.  Losing out on a big name because they wouldn't fork over the cash.  At least in that scenario, they can do something...they can overcome some perceived fault by flashing some big numbers.  But the Ricketts will cry poor or Jed will think he can outsmart the system, and they don't go all in.

The scenario here is "pretty please come play for us.  We're pretty cool, and there's some guys you might know on the team". 

If you're gonna get mad at the team over one of those scenarios, it's definitely the first one.

[CubinNY]

1 minute ago, Banedon said:

I mean, of those two scenarios, the one to be mad about is them crying poor.  Losing out on a big name because they wouldn't fork over the cash.  At least in that scenario, they can do something...they can overcome some perceived fault by flashing some big numbers.  But the Ricketts will cry poor or Jed will think he can outsmart the system, and they don't go all in.

The scenario here is "pretty please come play for us.  We're pretty cool, and there's some guys you might know on the team". 

If you're gonna get mad at the team over one of those scenarios, it's definitely the first one.

Tom is nuttier than a horsefeathers house rat. 

All anyone is saying is that the decision is not up to the Cubs and they cannot win by dropping a dump truck full of money. 

I don't know what fantasies he's playing with but everyone is the enemy.  

[Cuzi]

1 minute ago, Banedon said:

If you're gonna get mad at the team over one of those scenarios, it's definitely the first one.

The Cubs didn't even cry poor.

If the Cubs missed out on Soto because both NY teams were willing to blow away Ohtani's contract AND not defer any of those dollars, then fine. The Cubs legitimately cant compete with those team financially. But.... the Cubs didnt even horsefeathers engage with Soto. They operate in a way where they arent willing to give the years necessary to acquire top tier talent. It's nothing to do with dollars right now. They give out more annually to avoid longer terms.

[Jason Ross]

6 minutes ago, gocubs218 said:

 

Not a bad thing to hear. I like that concept. 

[Banedon]

9 minutes ago, TomtheBombadil said:

^ Nah, the problem is not that they spent on Matt Boyd. He’s been a fine ML pitcher for a long time, is coming off arguably his strongest per inning run. The problem is that they straight up had no real interest in a Soto or Betts or Judge or Cole or Machado or Harper and could explain it as being shrewd as fans and media blame anyone on a non-rookie deal or towards the (aging) end of a rookie deal 

.....

Yes, I never said otherwise.  That is exactly the problem, and what any rational fan can be upset about.  But being so upset about Sasaki, if the Cubs were to miss on him, that fans would start abandoning the team as you suggested is not rational.

[Sammy Sofa]

15 minutes ago, Cuzi said:

If the Cubs missed out on Soto because both NY teams were willing to blow away Ohtani's contract AND not defer any of those dollars, then fine. The Cubs legitimately cant compete with those team financially. 

I feel like Ricketts has a Grima Wormtongue-hypnosis thing going on whenever people say things like this.

[Bertz]

23 minutes ago, gocubs218 said:

 

Hearing Assad referred to as a depth guy, and getting listed after Brown and Wesneski, warms my heart.