General Offseason Priorities

[thawv]

6 hours ago, Rcal10 said:

Talking about where he played in HS is a bit much. Basically the best player in the team is usually the guy who plays SS and/or pitches. But chibear is correct he did play second in the minors. As for not playing well there, I have to take the word of people here saying he was bad. I don’t like the idea of moving him to second and trading Nico. If they did get Vlad I would let him and Busch split first and DH. Open up second for Shaw. Or put Paredes at 2nd and bring Shaw up to play 3rd. This is assuming Bellinger opts out. Probably something we won’t have to worry about. Trading for a Vlad is just not something I see in the Jed game plan of building sustained success. Maybe they will fool me. But up until now they have not shown the willingness to do something that aggressive. 

I also said he played 2B in the minors.  That's never been disputed.  But he was drafted as a first baseman, and they moved him 2B.   His fielding tool grade given by FG as a second baseman was a 30.  That's about as bad as it gets.  I have to trust the experts because I've never seen him play before we traded for him.  

Belli opting would be huge.  As it stands right now, unless they trade someone, they can't add to the offense.  If he doesn't opt out, I'm spending all the money on pitching, and some bench players. 

[Rcal10]

1 hour ago, thawv said:

I also said he played 2B in the minors.  That's never been disputed.  But he was drafted as a first baseman, and they moved him 2B.   His fielding tool grade given by FG as a second baseman was a 30.  That's about as bad as it gets.  I have to trust the experts because I've never seen him play before we traded for him.  

Belli opting would be huge.  As it stands right now, unless they trade someone, they can't add to the offense.  If he doesn't opt out, I'm spending all the money on pitching, and some bench players. 

Honestly, looking at some of these playoff team line ups, I’m not convinced that the Cubs wouldn’t have as good an offense as many of them if everyone came back and maybe they upgraded at catcher. PCA should be better next year. Maybe Busch too. I also think Parades is an upgrade over what we saw from Morel last year. If they upgraded the bench a little and added a higher end staring pitcher and got lucky with whoever they brought in to the pen, they could be a very good team. 
I say get lucky with the pen because honestly their just isn’t a way to build a pen that anyone can say with 80% certainty it will be good. Look at pens around the league. Some of the best are teams with home grown guys and guys they pick up off waivers. Most have guys that are journeyman and who happen to now be having a good year. 
IMO they really are not far away. Solid starter, upgrade at catcher and  complimentary pieces, if Bellinger stays. If he leaves they have to aim high for a big bat. While I think the team can be good enough even if Bellinger stays, I am very confident if they add a bat better than him along with the other moves they need to make they absolutely could/shoukd be a 90+ win team. 

[Stratos]

5 hours ago, CubinNY said:

Like who? I mean if you’re going to whine give us some meat. 

Well if you're going to ask me nicely like that how can I say no!

[Stratos]

On 10/5/2024 at 3:35 PM, chibears55 said:

I hope so too but we all know it going to depend on whether or not Rickett willing to go over the Threshold in offseason or they make trades, especially if Bellinger returns.

Can't they just trade Bellinger if he comes back?  Might have to eat a few million but shouldn't be a barrier.  Doubt they trade him though unless they landed another big OF contract, which I also have some doubts.  I don't mind Suzuki at DH though

Edited October 7, 2024 by Stratos

[Stratos]

3 hours ago, thawv said:

I also said he played 2B in the minors.  That's never been disputed.  But he was drafted as a first baseman, and they moved him 2B.   His fielding tool grade given by FG as a second baseman was a 30.  That's about as bad as it gets.  I have to trust the experts because I've never seen him play before we traded for him.  

Belli opting would be huge.  As it stands right now, unless they trade someone, they can't add to the offense.  If he doesn't opt out, I'm spending all the money on pitching, and some bench players. 

On the other hand, fielding tool trades by FG and MLB.com etc are notoriously inaccurate sometimes.

We don't really know how Busch throws from seeing him at 1B but his hands are solid and his reactions are too.  Might have below-average range after the first step or 2 though at 2B.  If he could make the throws he'd probably be solid at 3B given his ability to react and catch hard-hit balls at 1B.  Don't see him moving off 1B though, especially with Shaw and Triantos around plus Nico.

[Bertz]

If the team thought Busch was at all viable at 3B he would have gotten more than 1 game there this year, given the low bar of competition.  Hell if he was viable there the Dodgers probably don't let him go to begin with

2B is a little harder to say.  Nico is a pretty viable excuse for not getting more runway.  And I believe during Dansby's IL trip, which would have opened up 2B, Busch was in that deep funk after the league had adjusted to him.  Like certainly Busch is not going to be an everyday 2B (again the Dodgers would have simply held onto him), but in a world where our middle infield is less settled maybe 10/20/30 games over there isn't unreasonable.

Edited October 7, 2024 by Bertz

[thawv]

9 hours ago, Rcal10 said:

Honestly, looking at some of these playoff team line ups, I’m not convinced that the Cubs wouldn’t have as good an offense as many of them if everyone came back and maybe they upgraded at catcher. PCA should be better next year. Maybe Busch too. I also think Parades is an upgrade over what we saw from Morel last year. If they upgraded the bench a little and added a higher end staring pitcher and got lucky with whoever they brought in to the pen, they could be a very good team. 
I say get lucky with the pen because honestly their just isn’t a way to build a pen that anyone can say with 80% certainty it will be good. Look at pens around the league. Some of the best are teams with home grown guys and guys they pick up off waivers. Most have guys that are journeyman and who happen to now be having a good year. 
IMO they really are not far away. Solid starter, upgrade at catcher and  complimentary pieces, if Bellinger stays. If he leaves they have to aim high for a big bat. While I think the team can be good enough even if Bellinger stays, I am very confident if they add a bat better than him along with the other moves they need to make they absolutely could/shoukd be a 90+ win team. 

I have to agree with this.  We have some good players on this team.  And I expect improvements for the same 3 you mentioned.  Make the bench better, add a very good starter, and we are on our way.  After seeing the last couple of months with the pen, I'm not worried.  Especially if they add, maybe Brown, Wicks, Assad, Horton to the mix.  Maybe not all of them, but even 1 or 2 is a big upgrade.  I'd still like that big bopper in the lineup if it's possible!

[thawv]

7 hours ago, Stratos said:

On the other hand, fielding tool trades by FG and MLB.com etc are notoriously inaccurate sometimes.

We don't really know how Busch throws from seeing him at 1B but his hands are solid and his reactions are too.  Might have below-average range after the first step or 2 though at 2B.  If he could make the throws he'd probably be solid at 3B given his ability to react and catch hard-hit balls at 1B.  Don't see him moving off 1B though, especially with Shaw and Triantos around plus Nico.

Very true!!  But at this moment, their tool grades are all we have until they get to the bigs and have a large enough sample size to change that.  But in my opinion, to give a guy a 30 FV is really saying something.  Maybe he would pan out to be a 40, or even 45 if he played 2B?  That's still not good though.  No?

[Jason Ross]

This practice feels like a repeat of the Christopher Morel one we had just last offseason where we're trying to round-peg-square-hole a guy to a position. It's a little different in that the Cubs and the Dodgers are two different organizations, but I think it speaks volumes that the Dodgers didn't really envision him as a long-term 2b option based on how they were willing to move him/not give him 2b at any point at the MLB level, and the Cubs didn't play him at 3b. 

I think we have to more-or-less accept he's a 1b who might be able to moonlight a few games at 2b here or there.

[LBiittner]

With all the morel-like mix and match position flip-flop suggestions : 

how about jed signing rowdy tellez to be a solution as a relief pitcher? Afterall, he did it at least twice for the pirates.

[Joj]

On 10/6/2024 at 6:21 AM, thawv said:

High school??  Where did he play in little league?  Just kidding.
 

 

On 10/6/2024 at 6:21 AM, thawv said:

High school??  Where did he play in little league?  Just kidding.
 

Well, you seem very convinced by yourself.  Congrats and good luck.

[Joj]

13 hours ago, Rcal10 said:

I’m not convinced that the Cubs wouldn’t have as good an offense as many of them if everyone came back and maybe they upgraded at catcher.

Jed, is that you?

[SOFNR]

1 hour ago, LBiittner said:

With all the morel-like mix and match position flip-flop suggestions : 

how about jed signing rowdy tellez to be a solution as a relief pitcher? Afterall, he did it at least twice for the pirates.

Anthony Rizzo would be another great option. Afterall he's had incredible big league success as a reliever.

[thawv]

48 minutes ago, Joj said:

 

Well, you seem very convinced by yourself.  Congrats and good luck.

Convinced about what?  

[LBiittner]

3 hours ago, SOFNR said:

Anthony Rizzo would be another great option. Afterall he's had incredible big league success as a reliever.

both rizzo and tellez could solve the lefty out of the bullpen scarcity. And they could be a pinch hit option for madrigal or miggy then takeover on the mound the next half inning. 

Look at us saving jed $ with roster construction

[Stratos]

7 hours ago, thawv said:

I have to agree with this.  We have some good players on this team.  And I expect improvements for the same 3 you mentioned.  Make the bench better, add a very good starter, and we are on our way.  After seeing the last couple of months with the pen, I'm not worried.  Especially if they add, maybe Brown, Wicks, Assad, Horton to the mix.  Maybe not all of them, but even 1 or 2 is a big upgrade.  I'd still like that big bopper in the lineup if it's possible!

Besides Hodge the pen is filled with JAGs.  Merryweather hopefully comes back strong but hard to say, can we count on that?  Between Brown and Assad, whoever isn't starting should help i agree.  No idea how effective or not Wicks is as a pitcher.  I'm not assuming he's above average.  Horton is creeping down the road to Brennen Davis territory so the Cubs can't count on him to help.  Lopez, Tyson Miller, Roberts etc are JAGs.  Wesneski is who he is.

I don't think our pen is particularly good and the depth isn't very good.  Would be nice to have 3 guys in the late innings to count on and build around that.  Probably isn't happening though this offseason.  Besides Hodge our record developing relief prospects is terrible, or we ship them to other teams

[thawv]

57 minutes ago, Stratos said:

Besides Hodge the pen is filled with JAGs.  Merryweather hopefully comes back strong but hard to say, can we count on that?  Between Brown and Assad, whoever isn't starting should help i agree.  No idea how effective or not Wicks is as a pitcher.  I'm not assuming he's above average.  Horton is creeping down the road to Brennen Davis territory so the Cubs can't count on him to help.  Lopez, Tyson Miller, Roberts etc are JAGs.  Wesneski is who he is.

I don't think our pen is particularly good and the depth isn't very good.  Would be nice to have 3 guys in the late innings to count on and build around that.  Probably isn't happening though this offseason.  Besides Hodge our record developing relief prospects is terrible, or we ship them to other teams

I think it's Hodge's job to lose as closer.  I'm not 100% certain that Merryweather is tendered a contract.  But it's probable.  If Brown isn't in the rotation, he's going to be a lights out 8th or 9th inning guy.  Even healthy, Horton won't be a full time starter until 2027.  Might as well use him out of the pen next season.  Or at least part of it.  Both Wicks and Assad can certainly be solid for a couple of innings at a time.  I'm not sure any of those last 3 you mentioned are going to be on the active roster.  I guess we'll see what Jed's huge plans are to make this a division winner every year.  

[squally1313]

1 hour ago, Stratos said:

Besides Hodge the pen is filled with JAGs.  Merryweather hopefully comes back strong but hard to say, can we count on that?  Between Brown and Assad, whoever isn't starting should help i agree.  No idea how effective or not Wicks is as a pitcher.  I'm not assuming he's above average.  Horton is creeping down the road to Brennen Davis territory so the Cubs can't count on him to help.  Lopez, Tyson Miller, Roberts etc are JAGs.  Wesneski is who he is.

I don't think our pen is particularly good and the depth isn't very good.  Would be nice to have 3 guys in the late innings to count on and build around that.  Probably isn't happening though this offseason.  Besides Hodge our record developing relief prospects is terrible, or we ship them to other teams

How many non-JAGs do you think exist in the population of relief pitchers in baseball to the extent you can count on them over a period of multiple years? As an example:

I think you hit on where I'm at towards the end though. Trying to build a bullpen through offseason acquisitions is futile and a waste of resources. Whatever problems the pen has (and your mileage may vary on blaming external factors like injury, overuse, overuse due to starter ineffectiveness, bad sequencing, etc), the blame should be placed much more on the internal coaching and development rather than the front office. 

[Rcal10]

1 hour ago, Stratos said:

Besides Hodge the pen is filled with JAGs.  Merryweather hopefully comes back strong but hard to say, can we count on that?  Between Brown and Assad, whoever isn't starting should help i agree.  No idea how effective or not Wicks is as a pitcher.  I'm not assuming he's above average.  Horton is creeping down the road to Brennen Davis territory so the Cubs can't count on him to help.  Lopez, Tyson Miller, Roberts etc are JAGs.  Wesneski is who he is.

I don't think our pen is particularly good and the depth isn't very good.  Would be nice to have 3 guys in the late innings to count on and build around that.  Probably isn't happening though this offseason.  Besides Hodge our record developing relief prospects is terrible, or we ship them to other teams

Who has 3 guys they can count on year in and year out? The position is filled with guys who are good one year and not so good the next. Having guys who happen to be having a good year is the key. But how do they go about doing that? You could argue Miller, Lopez and Hodge were all guys that the Cubs  could count on when they were healthy. Brown was also good as was Almonte for his about time with the team. You are not wrong, they need a good one. But how do they get it? How do they get a guy and pretty much know he is going to be good?

[Bertz]

There's certainly a lack of top end talent but I think the depth in the pen is actually pretty strong.  After all the only losses to FA from a pen that was fairly lock down in the back half of the season are Smyly and Lopez, and Smyly is frankly not much of a loss at all.

- Pearson was very good after coming over, has clear closer caliber stuff

- Keegan Thompson was very good this year, didn't get a ton of leverage opps but excelled when he did and of course proved his mettle in '22 on that front

- Tyson Miller is a matchup guy, but a premium one

- Little, Almonte, and Merryweather are all coming off of injury but each looked like late inning arms pre-injury.  You don't expect all three to come back right but you also don't expect that all three are cooked

- Wesneski and Assad have both pitched well when asked to pitch in relief.  Brown is one of the most obvious Starter -> Closer candidates in the league

- None of Palencia/Neely/Roberts has established themselves yet, but all have primo stuff, all have more or less conquered AAA, and all have minor league options remaining in '25

The team *needs* another reliable late inning option.  And honestly I'm hoping for two (re-sign Lopez?).  But this is not a team hurting for 7th inning help.

[squally1313]

12 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

Who has 3 guys they can count on year in and year out? The position is filled with guys who are good one year and not so good the next. Having guys who happen to be having a good year is the key. But how do they go about doing that? You could argue Miller, Lopez and Hodge were all guys that the Cubs  could count on when they were healthy. Brown was also good as was Almonte for his about time with the team. You are not wrong, they need a good one. But how do they get it? How do they get a guy and pretty much know he is going to be good?

Said another way, wanting three guys that you can rely on and saying that we only have one right now, and at this time last year he was coming off a 5.13 ERA in AA, is pretty telling. 

Edited October 7, 2024 by squally1313

[Rcal10]

1 hour ago, squally1313 said:

Said another way, wanting three guys that you can rely on and saying that we only have one right now, and at this time last year he was coming off a 5.13 ERA in AA, is pretty telling. 

It’s just hard to predict. I remember last year some guys people were talking about because of a good 23’ season were Brasier, Armstrong and Stephenson. Of the 3 Brasier was the best this year, and not very good. Stephenson got hurt and didn’t even pitch this year. Armstrong got cut by 3 teams this year, including the Cubs. Neris was coming off a good year. Stanek as well. Hader got $19M last year and for a few more years. He wasn’t that good. Cubs picked up guys like Miller, Lopez and traded for Pearson. All as good as any of the coveted FA pitchers. There is going to be a similar cast of characters available next off season. Differnt names maybe, but similar guys. Sure, off of last year a lot of people will want Lopez back. But he is probably just as likely to suck as he is to be lights out. I will say they do need to have a lefty in the or . So if one is not in the system they need to sign one. And even if Little is a guy next year, might not be a bad idea to have another. Who it is, I have no idea. And I doubt anyone can say with full certainty which guy is the one or two they should sign. 
Other free agent pitchers signed consist of Stanek, Will Smith, Matt Moore, Chafin, Martinez, Wade Miley, Suter and others. Most not very effective.

 

Edited October 7, 2024 by Rcal10

[squally1313]

Indians priority this offseason is getting some shut down relievers 

[Rcal10]

32 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

Indians priority this offseason is getting some shut down relievers 

😅

[Stratos]

8 hours ago, thawv said:

I think it's Hodge's job to lose as closer.  I'm not 100% certain that Merryweather is tendered a contract.  But it's probable.  If Brown isn't in the rotation, he's going to be a lights out 8th or 9th inning guy.  Even healthy, Horton won't be a full time starter until 2027.  Might as well use him out of the pen next season.  Or at least part of it.  Both Wicks and Assad can certainly be solid for a couple of innings at a time.  I'm not sure any of those last 3 you mentioned are going to be on the active roster.  I guess we'll see what Jed's huge plans are to make this a division winner every year.  

These guys are up for arbitration, plus Alzolay (who will def get non-tendered), any of them could get non-tendered:

• Yency Almonte (5.143): $2.2MM
• Julian Merryweather (4.109): $1.3M
• Trey Wingenter (4.049): $1.4MM
• Nate Pearson (4.005): $1.4MM
• Jimmy Herget (3.069): $900K
• Colten Brewer (3.063): $800K
• Keegan Thompson (3.006): $1MM