C+C Losing Factory (Thursday on Prime)

[CubinNY]

5 minutes ago, BigSlick said:

Yeah I definitely don't hate the idea of keeping him around next year if we draft a QB and letting the prospect sit - though it would drive Chicago media and fans insane for about a year. I don't think his trade value is gonna be anything special and I would hate to live through the Mike Glennon, Andy Dalton, etc experience again. 

I simply cannot fathom a situation where both the Bears and Panthers are too good for one of them to not be in the top 5. Perhaps as I say that a monkey paw is curling somewhere, but I really can't. 

I don't think you will have much to worry about in the Fields being good department. Also, Eberflus seems to find a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, so I think they are a safe bet to be in the top five. If they fall in love with a QB would they trade up from 5?

[jersey cubs fan]

The bears will be favorites two more times this year and 4/5 winnable games. Carolina has 3-4 winnable games and no motivation to tank. 
 

if panthers win this weekend, maybe they also trip up Tampa twice and suddenly it’s not outside the realm. 

 

[jumbo]

Bears remaining opponents

Lions x2 and the Browns - 3L

Cardinals - W

Vikings, Packers, Falcons - coin flips?

 

Hard to see #1 not being the Cardinals at this point. 

Panthers have Cowboys, Titans, Bucs x2, Saints, Falcons, Packers, Jaguars - Maybe they win one of Titans/Falcons?

NYGiants have one winnable game in the Staffordless Rams, maybe two with Patriots

Patriots and Rams likely don't win much more. Maybe the Bears are really worse than all these teams? 

 

[WrigleyField 22]

Cardinals really come down to Kyler Murray.  Hopefully he balls out.

[UMFan83]

3 hours ago, BigSlick said:

Here's the real question: What do you do if Fields rolls off 8 games in a row to end the season of the same caliber of play we saw in the Denver and Washington game? Assuming we still have at least one pick in the top 3 (I think thats safe) and one pick in the top 10. Do you still draft one of the QB prospects? Are you obligated to? 

It would be an extremely Bears thing to happen of course

Fake Edit: Actually, the most Bears thing to happen is he doesn't play at quite *that* caliber but a notch below that. He has like 5 good games, 2 meh games and 1 bad game. And you end up feeling...fine, but not great. 

So Fields has this caliber of game the rest of the year:  309 passing yards, 4 TDs, 1 INT, 9.7 YPA, 129 QB rating, 41 rushing yards?  (average of those 2 games).  Maybe depress the numbers a bit to account for quality of competition, 260 yards, 2 TD, 0-1 INT, 8.5 YPA, 117 QB Rating.

I think its pretty obvious you keep Fields at that point because those are legit All-Pro numbers similar to Mahomes.  Not going to happen, Fields will continue to be who he is, showing flashes against some teams, looking perplexed and overwhelmed against others.  But yeah if he did that, QB is off the table in the draft and you immediately extend him.

[WrigleyField 22]

I don't think I can be talked out of a top two pick at QB at this point.

 

More interesting questions would be:

 

1. Could Fields play well enough to be a bridge to those QBs for a year (maybe like a Rivers/Brees scenario?)

Or

2. If they land outside of the top 2, how agressive should they be in getting into the top two and/or accepting the 3rd/4th QB off board, or exploring other options altogether (like say a Kyler Murray if Cardinals finish top 2?).  If picking 3rd or 4th QB  insert Fields as bridge or punting long term decision scenario.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Justin Fields is not a bridge QB. He's not good enough to subject your team to if you're not dreaming on the upside, and he's so bad at operating the offense that it makes it difficult to evaluate other players.

If he doesn't make a miraculous turnaround and make you think he's your franchise QB that you want to extend this offseason, he shouldn't be on the roster by the next training camp.

[jersey cubs fan]

2 hours ago, WrigleyField 22 said:

I don't think I can be talked out of a top two pick at QB at this point.

 

More interesting questions would be:

 

1. Could Fields play well enough to be a bridge to those QBs for a year (maybe like a Rivers/Brees scenario?)

Or

2. If they land outside of the top 2, how agressive should they be in getting into the top two and/or accepting the 3rd/4th QB off board, or exploring other options altogether (like say a Kyler Murray if Cardinals finish top 2?).  If picking 3rd or 4th QB  insert Fields as bridge or punting long term decision scenario.

If poles is allowed to trade up, urine trouble

 

 

[raw]

6 hours ago, UMFan83 said:

So Fields has this caliber of game the rest of the year:  309 passing yards, 4 TDs, 1 INT, 9.7 YPA, 129 QB rating, 41 rushing yards?  (average of those 2 games).  Maybe depress the numbers a bit to account for quality of competition, 260 yards, 2 TD, 0-1 INT, 8.5 YPA, 117 QB Rating.

I think its pretty obvious you keep Fields at that point because those are legit All-Pro numbers similar to Mahomes.  Not going to happen, Fields will continue to be who he is, showing flashes against some teams, looking perplexed and overwhelmed against others.  But yeah if he did that, QB is off the table in the draft and you immediately extend him.

I know QB's shouldn't be evaluated on W/L record. But if those are Fields' numbers and they end up 2-6 or 3-5, I don't think it moves the needle much. He has to win games AND put up those type of numbers, IMO. 

But the problem is if he does both of those things, you gotta commit another year to Eberflus and Getsy. Because you don't want to change everything up on Justin when he's finally putting it all together. You also aren't going to guarantee Fields' 5th year (for 23M) while also forcing him to learn a 3rd offense in 4 years. Even a turnaround this year would mean a year and a half before figuring out this offense. And maybe you bring in a similar scheme, but there's nothing that Fields has shown that makes me believe he'll just pick up a new offense and hit the ground running in 2024. So, you may be looking at 2025 before he's comfortable again in a new offense. 

[BigSlick]

If Fields is so fragile he can't handle learning a new offense over the course of an offseason, something pro QBs do with regularity, then he isn't your franchise QB. Next year would be his 4th year in the league - we shouldn't have to worry about handling him with kid gloves. 

I don't know why even a mediocre Fields is a bad option for a bridge QB if we draft a 1 or 2 QB? The choices are to trade him (likely for not much value), let him play the final year of his contract, start the rookie, or play the Andy Dalton experience again. I don't want to play the Andy Dalton Experience. I'm totally fine if he makes it a Brees-Rivers situation. 

[SouthSideRyan]

On 11/7/2023 at 10:14 AM, BigSlick said:

Yeah I definitely don't hate the idea of keeping him around next year if we draft a QB and letting the prospect sit - though it would drive Chicago media and fans insane for about a year. I don't think his trade value is gonna be anything special and I would hate to live through the Mike Glennon, Andy Dalton, etc experience again. 

I simply cannot fathom a situation where both the Bears and Panthers are too good for one of them to not be in the top 5. Perhaps as I say that a monkey paw is curling somewhere, but I really can't. 

Arizona, NYG, New England...I dunno Green Bay and Tampa? Vegas? (Who somehow already has 4 wins) It's tough unless one of these middling teams suffers injuries or has a bear of a schedule.

[jersey cubs fan]

Tremaine Edmunds is on the injury report this week and day to day. The guy hasn’t really Impressed this season. It was a head scratching signing in the first place and that stays hasn’t improved with time. I’m curious how quickly he loses favor with the organization. $50 million is a lot of guarantees so he probable lasts through 2024, but then what? 

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Bagent confirmed for tomorrow 

Just needs to keep doing what he's doing except instead of making bad throws he should make good throws 

[We Got The Whole 9]

1 hour ago, jersey cubs fan said:

Tremaine Edmunds is on the injury report this week and day to day. The guy hasn’t really Impressed this season. It was a head scratching signing in the first place and that stays hasn’t improved with time. I’m curious how quickly he loses favor with the organization. $50 million is a lot of guarantees so he probable lasts through 2024, but then what? 

Pretty pointless signing based on athletic upside and rare youth for a FA. We spent way too much on LBs and didn't even put a line in front of them to lessen the load. Really annoying. 

[BigSlick]

1 hour ago, Hairyducked Idiot said:

Bagent confirmed for tomorrow 

Just needs to keep doing what he's doing except instead of making bad throws he should make good throws 

ugh

 

nothing against the kid but thats single-handedly made this the least compelling game of the season

Edited November 8, 2023 by BigSlick

[raw]

7 hours ago, BigSlick said:

If Fields is so fragile he can't handle learning a new offense over the course of an offseason, something pro QBs do with regularity, then he isn't your franchise QB. Next year would be his 4th year in the league - we shouldn't have to worry about handling him with kid gloves. 

I don't know why even a mediocre Fields is a bad option for a bridge QB if we draft a 1 or 2 QB? The choices are to trade him (likely for not much value), let him play the final year of his contract, start the rookie, or play the Andy Dalton experience again. I don't want to play the Andy Dalton Experience. I'm totally fine if he makes it a Brees-Rivers situation. 

Like who? Seems to me that it's mostly bad when a QB gets an HC/OC change before he is established as a good QB.

I can't think of any situations where the offense was changed after Year 2 of a QB's tenure that led to success if the QB wasn't already established as a good QB (aka OC doesn't matter at this point). 

Herbert was really good before they brought in Kellen Moore this year. Lamar was good before they moved on from Roman. Obviously guys like Rodgers, Brady, Josh Allen, etc were all really good before they had OC changes.

I mean, it's mainly because an OC goes as the QB goes. A bad QB likely means OC is fired. If so, new OC doesn't typically make new QB good.  If a QB is good, he usually loses his OC to a HC job. There's situations like Roman/Jackson where they aren't getting over the hump and are stale offensively as well, but again, established QB.

 

[WrigleyField 22]

On 11/7/2023 at 5:41 PM, Hairyducked Idiot said:

Justin Fields is not a bridge QB. He's not good enough to subject your team to if you're not dreaming on the upside, and he's so bad at operating the offense that it makes it difficult to evaluate other players.

If he doesn't make a miraculous turnaround and make you think he's your franchise QB that you want to extend this offseason, he shouldn't be on the roster by the next training camp.

Eh, let's not debase it down to extremes.  There's plenty of plausible scenarios where he is your QB for 2024.  You're basically asking if he can come out of this year comparable to end of 2021 Daniel Jones.  

[Hairyducked Idiot]

5 minutes ago, WrigleyField 22 said:

Eh, let's not debase it down to extremes.  There's plenty of plausible scenarios where he is your QB for 2024.  You're basically asking if he can come out of this year comparable to end of 2021 Daniel Jones.  

There's lots of plausible scenarios where it happens. There's very few where I think it's a good idea.

[WrigleyField 22]

1 hour ago, Hairyducked Idiot said:

There's lots of plausible scenarios where it happens. There's very few where I think it's a good idea.

Just has to be the least bad option (as bridge QBs are)

[minnesotacubsfan]

Boy am I glad Roquans career isnt wasted

[BigSlick]

I'm beginning to feel like them continuing to start Darnell Wright while he has one arm is irresponsible? He's your most important young player on the offensive line and the season is already lost and you're not even starting your QB prospect so... I dunno give the guy some time off. 

God forbid he re-aggravates the injury and causes further harm to him. 

[jersey cubs fan]

9 minutes ago, BigSlick said:

I'm beginning to feel like them continuing to start Darnell Wright while he has one arm is irresponsible? He's your most important young player on the offensive line and the season is already lost and you're not even starting your QB prospect so... I dunno give the guy some time off. 

God forbid he re-aggravates the injury and causes further harm to him. 

It’s not like he’s a pitcher. If it’s something he can play through medically, I don’t have a problem with it. 

[We Got The Whole 9]

Shut him down after we beat the Panthers tonight 

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Letting him play football is irresponsible.  After that it's just a matter of degree.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

So I've more or less been following Carolina all season to keep tabs on our pick and because of Bryce young curiosity.

If our defense can't have a good game against them, fire the whole unit into the sun. It's so bad.

Young has all the traditional rookie QB flaws. He's foolable and gets rattled by pressure. Their offensive line is just as bad as ours has ever been, and their receivers are so slow even our dbs can handle them.

If we lose this game it will be because of Bagentball