Cubs offseason chit chat...

[chopsx9]

2 hours ago, Derwood said:

 it could be argued that Springer underperformed while Bellinger over performed, if that normalizes, Bellinger seems like an expensive and redundant option for a team without open outfield or first base slots. 

Springer is 34 this year and probably played CF longer than he should have and I'd have to think a continued decline is more likely than a bounce back - not impossible but I don't think you can expect it - though maybe he DHs more this year.  Most of the BJ's OF WAR is defensive driven.  They were desperate for offense last year.  Varsho was a black hole last year - KK was a pleasant surprise but hardly a force and what are the chances he repeats.  Bellinger would be a fit because he'd provide offense which they are desperately looking for.  He's also a bit of name so he'd be a bit of a PR win in the face of losing out on Ohtani, who they really thought they had a shot at.

[Rcal10]

7 minutes ago, chopsx9 said:

Springer is 34 this year and probably played CF longer than he should have and I'd have to think a continued decline is more likely than a bounce back - not impossible but I don't think you can expect it - though maybe he DHs more this year.  Most of the BJ's OF WAR is defensive driven.  They were desperate for offense last year.  Varsho was a black hole last year - KK was a pleasant surprise but hardly a force and what are the chances he repeats.  Bellinger would be a fit because he'd provide offense which they are desperately looking for.  He's also a bit of name so he'd be a bit of a PR win in the face of losing out on Ohtani, who they really thought they had a shot at.

I don’t think you sign a guy for 7+ years and over $160M as a PR move. They might sign him, but it will be because they feel he helps the team, not so they look better to their fans. 

[Rcal10]

So when does the dam break? When does one of these 4 Boras clients sign a deal? What has to happen? If no one is offering the money Boras wants what changes for a team to finally decide they will meet his demands? And what happens if no one does budge? Are these guys really just not going to play? Are they going to waste a year by signing late and hurting their production in 24’? When does this come to a head? What happens for this to end? 

[squally1313]

2 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

What happens for this to end? 

I think if we get just a few dozen more message board posts freaking out about it, it might break the dam wide open

[Brian707]

2 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

 When does this come to a head? What happens for this to end? 

[chopsx9]

31 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

32 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

I don’t think you sign a guy for 7+ years and over $160M as a PR move. They might sign him, but it will be because they feel he helps the team, not so they look better to their fans. 

 

Hence why that sentence is tacked on after the first one. 

[UMFan83]

29 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

So when does the dam break? When does one of these 4 Boras clients sign a deal? What has to happen? If no one is offering the money Boras wants what changes for a team to finally decide they will meet his demands? And what happens if no one does budge? Are these guys really just not going to play? Are they going to waste a year by signing late and hurting their production in 24’? When does this come to a head? What happens for this to end? 

Well lets look at a couple of Boras clients that he ended up dragging into Spring Training without a deal.  The 2 that pop into my head right away are Jake Arrieta and Bryce Harper.

Jake Arrieta ended up signing with the Phillies on March 11th.  He didn't end up making his first regular season start until the Phillies 8th game, but pitched really well, having a 2.18 ERA in his first 10 starts.

Bryce Harper signed on February 28th but I think was ready for the season to start after having a couple of weeks of spring training ABs.

So it seem like Boras is more than willing to let this drag out well into Spring Training if needed and while I do think when one of them signs things will start to move a bit quicker as teams get weeded out for the other guys, I don't think it will be a dam breaking necessarily.

[Bertz]

Honestly if I'm one of the pitchers and I've come this far, I wait another two weeks and see which large market team had a pitcher come into camp injured.  I wouldn't wait much longer than that though because then it impacts your season.  The hitters don't really have a drop dead date until like early March?

I do expect shortly a run on lesser players pretty soon.  They'll want to get into camps before they start or at least very shortly after.  And they don't have as much to gain by holding out.

[Backtobanks]

3 hours ago, Tim said:

B2B doesn't much care for Jed.

You're right a record of 228 - 258 (.469) since taking over complete control as President of Baseball Operations with the biggest market team in a division of mid- to- small market teams doesn't get me very excited, but I know the drill "wait until next year".

[squally1313]

3 minutes ago, Backtobanks said:

You're right a record of 228 - 258 (.469) since taking over complete control as President of Baseball Operations with the biggest market team in a division of mid- to- small market teams doesn't get me very excited, but I know the drill "wait until next year".

Man you must have really hated Epstein after his first three years then (.411)

[Thusly Boned]

17 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

Man you must have really hated Epstein after his first three years then (.411)

IIRC, B2B loved bagging on Epstein (at the time) as well, and pining for Hendry. Seems to be a pattern of being malcontent. But he wasn't alone, a lot of people really hated the teardown phase of the Epstein era.

 

 

 

[squally1313]

13 minutes ago, XZero77 said:

IIRC, B2B loved bagging on Epstein (at the time) as well, and pining for Hendry. Seems to be a pattern of being malcontent. But he wasn't alone, a lot of people really hated the teardown phase of the Epstein era.

 

 

 

I kinda agree that it was a little excessive in terms of the length, but I guess it was a testament to how rotted out the whole organization was at the time. Hoyer basically took a year and a half to flip the roster into a team that was in playoff contention on the last weekend. Obviously there’s a way to go to be in the ‘best team in baseball’ conversation, but then again the a big reason we got there in 2015-2017 was because we got to stack high draft picks from bottoming out for as long as we did. 

[Rcal10]

2 hours ago, squally1313 said:

I think if we get just a few dozen more message board posts freaking out about it, it might break the dam wide open

 

2 hours ago, Brian707 said:

Where in my question does it appear I am freaking out? I am just asking what people think will happen to open things up. Just conversing about what’s happening in the off season. We all seem to have ideas as to how the FA period will eventually play out(and share those thoughts).  I just thought maybe someone has an idea as to what needs to happen for things to move. Does Boras break or do FO come to his demands? Who goes first? Things like that. There is absolutely no panic or freaking out in my end. Just making conversation. 

Edited February 8, 2024 by Rcal10

[Backtobanks]

42 minutes ago, XZero77 said:

IIRC, B2B loved bagging on Epstein (at the time) as well, and pining for Hendry. Seems to be a pattern of being malcontent. But he wasn't alone, a lot of people really hated the teardown phase of the Epstein era.

 

 

 

I just have trouble watching the Cubs tanking whole seasons with the hope that something will come out of it in the end.  I think Theo was the one that said "every season is sacred."  As for Hoyer, he certainly isn't Epstein.  He has basically followed Epstein for most of his career.  At least Epstein had a track record of success whereas Hoyer has basked in Epstein's success.  As for Hendry, I do think he has gotten a bad rap from many posters here.  He did get to three postseasons in 10 years.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Team B2B! Jed sucks donkey ass.

[s2obed]

Spring Training is right around the corner. Inevitably someone will get hurt. I think thats when we might see someone give in and sign one of the Boras guys. 

[CubinNY]

Jed + rebuilt the minor leagues and development team, draft team is better, 86ing Ross

Jed - rigidity in signing FA, record at ML level, 

I think they have ownership that is taking profit after investing in Wrigley and dealing with COVID. I think ownership found their man to run the organization like they want it ran with their philosophy for sustainability. I don’t know that Jed is up to that task. The next few years will tell us. 

[Rcal10]

10 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

Jed + rebuilt the minor leagues and development team, draft team is better, 86ing Ross

Jed - rigidity in signing FA, record at ML level, 

I think they have ownership that is taking profit after investing in Wrigley and dealing with COVID. I think ownership found their man to run the organization like they want it ran with their philosophy for sustainability. I don’t know that Jed is up to that task. The next few years will tell us. 

I agree Jed is running the team exactly how ownership wants him too. He is staying within their guidelines. As you said, let’s see if he is good at winning with those guidelines. Now is the time we should be judging him on wins. Precious to that, he was building the organization back up. And he did a good job doing that, IMO.

[LBiittner]

According to Jesse Rogers on ESPN 1000, Boras is holding firm at $200m for Belli.

I got this feeling, eventually Bellinger will be dead to me.

Come on PCA !!! 

[Rcal10]

2 minutes ago, LBiittner said:

According to Jesse Rogers on ESPN 1000, Boras is holding firm at $200m for Belli.

I got this feeling, eventually Bellinger will be dead to me.

Come on PCA !!! 

Yep, if he stays there he will not be a Cub. Simple as that. 

[LBiittner]

4 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

Yep, if he stays there he will not be a Cub. Simple as that. 

Personally, I don't care about Ricketts $.

But 200m for Belli just doesn't make sense in this lineup. 

[Rcal10]

1 hour ago, LBiittner said:

Personally, I don't care about Ricketts $.

But 200m for Belli just doesn't make sense in this lineup. 

If that is 8 years the annual isn’t the issue. They years are. I wouldn’t mind 6 years. But if Jed isn’t even going to extend beyond his idea of a good value signing they are never going to get a top guy. And if he isn’t going to do that he should just see about trading young minor league talent for major league talent. 
 

[Stratos]

1 hour ago, LBiittner said:

According to Jesse Rogers on ESPN 1000, Boras is holding firm at $200m for Belli.

I got this feeling, eventually Bellinger will be dead to me.

Come on PCA !!! 

Wonder what the plan B would be to spend the rest of that money this year if they can't get any of the Boras 4.  Some other bat I'd imagine, maybe a reliever upgrade.  Could swing a trade.

Tauchman, Canario, Morel, and PCA are the options in CF.

[Thusly Boned]

1 hour ago, LBiittner said:

According to Jesse Rogers on ESPN 1000, Boras is holding firm at $200m for Belli.

I got this feeling, eventually Bellinger will be dead to me.

Come on PCA !!! 

I just can't see anyone going there, at least in guaranteed money. If he's gonna be stubborn about it, this might drag into March.

[squally1313]

29 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

If that is 8 years the annual isn’t the issue. They years are. I wouldn’t mind 6 years. But if Jed isn’t even going to extend beyond his idea of a good value signing they are never going to get a top guy. And if he isn’t going to do that he should just see about trading young minor league talent for major league talent. 
 

Half the people here think that Jed has like, the Ten Commandments of Responsible Spending nailed to his office wall based on less than 2 complete contending offseasons (and to call us a contending team going into last offseason is a pretty big stretch), based essentially on frustration that we aren't the Dodgers and it's been a boring offseason if you're a fan of any team besides the Dodgers. We have no idea, we just didn't get Shohei and everyone is antsy and wants it to be baseball season even though it's still 7 weeks away.

Edited February 9, 2024 by squally1313