Cubs offseason chit chat...

[Rob]

The Cubs should sign Austin Meadows.

Picked 9th overall in the 2013 draft by the Pittsburgh Pirates, Meadows (along with Tyler Glasnow) was traded to the Tampa Bay Rays for Chris Archer in 2018. He was considered a top prospect at the time, and would go on to put up a .291/.364/.558 line in 2019 during his first full year in the majors. He put up 4.5 fWAR that season.

In 2020, he tested positive for COVID and missed a significant chunk of the shortened season, limping to a .205/.296/.371 line.

2021 saw him bounce back a little bit, to a .234/.315/.458 line in 142 games. He accrued 1.6 fWAR in the process.

On April 4, 2022, Meadows was shipped off to the Tigers for Issac Paredes. He would once again be infected with COVID and dealt with vertigo issues. Shortly after rejoining the team, he injured his achilles and missed the rest of the season -- partially due to mental health issues.

2023 saw him missing time again with anxiety issues. He only played 6 games last year.

Given how much time he's missed, it's hard to get a read on him as a player. But he's still just 28 years old. He's left-handed. He's got power and puts the ball in the air.

He could be a really good change of scenery candidate. Pick him up on the cheap. Counsell likes to mix-and-match a lot, so he'd probably pick up a fair amount of time at LF/RF/DH and get good matchups when doing so.

If he was capable of playing CF, I'd liken this move to last year's Bellinger pickup. But while he's played there a bit in the past, he'd probably be stretched pretty thin doing so. That said, Wrigley has an easier CF than most ballparks.

Still, he strikes me as a worthwhile change of scenery gambit.

[Tryptamine]

8 minutes ago, Rob said:

The Cubs should sign Austin Meadows.

Picked 9th overall in the 2013 draft by the Pittsburgh Pirates, Meadows (along with Tyler Glasnow) was traded to the Tampa Bay Rays for Chris Archer in 2018. He was considered a top prospect at the time, and would go on to put up a .291/.364/.558 line in 2019 during his first full year in the majors. He put up 4.5 fWAR that season.

In 2020, he tested positive for COVID and missed a significant chunk of the shortened season, limping to a .205/.296/.371 line.

2021 saw him bounce back a little bit, to a .234/.315/.458 line in 142 games. He accrued 1.6 fWAR in the process.

On April 4, 2022, Meadows was shipped off to the Tigers for Issac Paredes. He would once again be infected with COVID and dealt with vertigo issues. Shortly after rejoining the team, he injured his achilles and missed the rest of the season -- partially due to mental health issues.

2023 saw him missing time again with anxiety issues. He only played 6 games last year.

Given how much time he's missed, it's hard to get a read on him as a player. But he's still just 28 years old. He's left-handed. He's got power and puts the ball in the air.

He could be a really good change of scenery candidate. Pick him up on the cheap. Counsell likes to mix-and-match a lot, so he'd probably pick up a fair amount of time at LF/RF/DH and get good matchups when doing so.

If he was capable of playing CF, I'd liken this move to last year's Bellinger pickup. But while he's played there a bit in the past, he'd probably be stretched pretty thin doing so. That said, Wrigley has an easier CF than most ballparks.

Still, he strikes me as a worthwhile change of scenery gambit.

He's having severe mental issues right now so much so that he basically was almost entirely out of contact with the Tigers in 2023. I'm worry to say, but his days as a baseball player are probably over.

[SOFNR]

46 minutes ago, Ding Dong Johnson said:

What the horsefeathers happened at PSD that left so many of you in bad moods all the time?

I don't see much a difference. Certain posters from both sites are more inclined to be a little nastier or argue in circles for hours. Once you learn who they're pretty easy to avoid if you're not in the mood. I think PSD probably had more of a majority pretty jaded with the Ricketts crying broke and unwilling to behave like a top 4 market then I see here. Which is understandable. But that will likely shift if they ever reverse that trend. But overall I'm guessing trying to read moods on the internet is probably a futile exercise and I wouldn't get too worked up about it.

[SOFNR]

I'm definitely concerned about a Bellinger contract. But I'm probably on board for 7/180. The Cubs need a legit bat, and you whiffed on the top GA's again. He's probably got the highest ceiling of the guys left. If the system is capable of spitting out cheap major league contributors for a while then this is risk you can afford to take. But he's gotta play center.

[gflore34]

I am wondering why the pretty much complete the lack of action on Hoyers' part.  What's he waiting for?  Every worthwhile FA and trade target to be signed or traded?  Is the Cubs biggest off-season move going to be signing a manager?

[Rob]

2 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

He's having severe mental issues right now so much so that he basically was almost entirely out of contact with the Tigers in 2023. I'm worry to say, but his days as a baseball player are probably over.

Zack Greinke absconded from the Royals for a year.

It's quite possible that Meadows' career is over. But it's hardly a foregone conclusion. If he thinks he's up to it, I think he's worth gambling on.

[Jason Ross]

13 minutes ago, gflore34 said:

I am wondering why the pretty much complete the lack of action on Hoyers' part.  What's he waiting for?  Every worthwhile FA and trade target to be signed or traded?  Is the Cubs biggest off-season move going to be signing a manager?

The hope is that the Cubs are working on things that aren't being reported out side of vaguities. Perhaps a larger trade with Cleveland (Bieber/Naylor?), a trade with Seattle (SP?) or something off the radar. The Cubs have a tendency to operate rather quietly on things so it's probably something that would come together fast on our end, but took weeks of work to get done. 

Edited December 12, 2023 by 1908_Cubs

[LBiittner]

1 hour ago, Ding Dong Johnson said:

What the horsefeathers happened at PSD that left so many of you in bad moods all the time?

So many cub fans are settling on possible cub acquisitions that fall into the retreads section of the jed hoyer book of financing. Otherwise known as THE THRIFTY NICKLE

[Bertz]

25 minutes ago, gflore34 said:

I am wondering why the pretty much complete the lack of action on Hoyers' part.  What's he waiting for?  Every worthwhile FA and trade target to be signed or traded?  Is the Cubs biggest off-season move going to be signing a manager?

I did the counting by hand so I might be off by one or two, but only 10 of MLB Trade Rumors have signed so far.  Ohtani and to a lesser extent Yamamoto have held most things up.  People are getting antsy because of the calendar, but in terms of inventory left on the market we're very much in the early stages.  It's just going to be an annoying offseason where a ton league-wide doesn't gets done until January.  Kind of like that Harper/Machado offseason.

[CubinNY]

45 minutes ago, Rob said:

The Cubs should sign Austin Meadows.

Picked 9th overall in the 2013 draft by the Pittsburgh Pirates, Meadows (along with Tyler Glasnow) was traded to the Tampa Bay Rays for Chris Archer in 2018. He was considered a top prospect at the time, and would go on to put up a .291/.364/.558 line in 2019 during his first full year in the majors. He put up 4.5 fWAR that season.

In 2020, he tested positive for COVID and missed a significant chunk of the shortened season, limping to a .205/.296/.371 line.

2021 saw him bounce back a little bit, to a .234/.315/.458 line in 142 games. He accrued 1.6 fWAR in the process.

On April 4, 2022, Meadows was shipped off to the Tigers for Issac Paredes. He would once again be infected with COVID and dealt with vertigo issues. Shortly after rejoining the team, he injured his achilles and missed the rest of the season -- partially due to mental health issues.

2023 saw him missing time again with anxiety issues. He only played 6 games last year.

Given how much time he's missed, it's hard to get a read on him as a player. But he's still just 28 years old. He's left-handed. He's got power and puts the ball in the air.

He could be a really good change of scenery candidate. Pick him up on the cheap. Counsell likes to mix-and-match a lot, so he'd probably pick up a fair amount of time at LF/RF/DH and get good matchups when doing so.

If he was capable of playing CF, I'd liken this move to last year's Bellinger pickup. But while he's played there a bit in the past, he'd probably be stretched pretty thin doing so. That said, Wrigley has an easier CF than most ballparks.

Still, he strikes me as a worthwhile change of scenery gambit.

Doesn't he have mental health issues, severe anxiety, I think that has kept him out of baseball for long stretches?

[Rob]

Just now, CubinNY said:

Doesn't he have mental health issues, severe anxiety, I think that has kept him out of baseball for long stretches?

Yes. That's actually mentioned multiple times in the post you quoted, and has been discussed in the thread since then.

As I pointed out, Zack Greinke spent the whole of the 2006 (IIRC) season away from the Royals due to severe anxiety. It's not necessarily the end of a career. But as a shrink, I wouldn't mind your take.

[CubinNY]

58 minutes ago, Rob said:

Yes. That's actually mentioned multiple times in the post you quoted, and has been discussed in the thread since then.

As I pointed out, Zack Greinke spent the whole of the 2006 (IIRC) season away from the Royals due to severe anxiety. It's not necessarily the end of a career. But as a shrink, I wouldn't mind your take.

I say get help for the anxiety and then worry about baseball later. Jimmy Piersall dealt with that too, so a player can overcome it. 

-----------------------

As an aside: There was no better and more entertaining broadcast team in baseball than Jimmy Persall and Harry Carry when they did White Sox games on WFLD. 

Edited December 12, 2023 by CubinNY

[champaignchris]

As of December 12, last year, the Cubs hadn’t done anything of note either. 

They signed Bellinger on Dec 14, 2022. 
 

EDIT:  I’m wrong. They announced the signing on Dec 6. He wasn’t officially signed until the 14th. 

Edited December 12, 2023 by champaignchris

[gflore34]

1 hour ago, LBiittner said:

So many cub fans are settling on possible cub acquisitions that fall into the retreads section of the jed hoyer book of financing. Otherwise known as THE THRIFTY NICKLE

Settling?  I knew the THE THRIFTY NICKLE was and is the plan, Ohtani and Yamamoto were never going to happen for the Cubs, not close to the realm of reality.  Soto was a far more realistic outcome however, it's no surprise Jed punted.

Edited December 12, 2023 by gflore34

[Tryptamine]

I think the depressing part, for me,  is not that I don't think Jed can and likely will put out a competitive team in 2024, but that I don't think he can put together a really exciting team unless there's names we don't know yet. They could reasonably put a team together with 87-88 win projections who might exceed that and put up 91-92 wins, but I don't see this team approaching the levels of the upper tier squads and I'm not sure that's going to change much in 2025 either. It's a team where even with a solid offseason, you're going to be by far the weakest likely NL division winner and in the NL East/West they might be projected to finish third. Going into the season being projected as maybe the 5th or 6th best team in the NL is just kind of ok.

[LBiittner]

14 minutes ago, gflore34 said:

Settling?  I knew the THE THRIFTY NICKLE was and is the plan, Ohtani and Yamamoto were never going to happen for the Cubs, not close to realm of reality.  Soto was a far more realistic outcome however, it's no surprise Jed punted.

We deserve better players. We are not the whitesox or the oakland As. We shouldn't just be competing. Cubs need to trounce and demolish their division. I'm worried the Reds will take the division if they get a couple significant starters while we end up with the Donaldsons, turners and meadows of the free agency allotment.

[Rob]

1 hour ago, LBiittner said:

So many cub fans are settling on possible cub acquisitions that fall into the retreads section of the jed hoyer book of financing. Otherwise known as THE THRIFTY NICKLE

Respectfully, Bellinger last year would have fit this description perfectly last year. Retread coming off some terrible years and looking for a one year pillow contract while he tries to rebuild some value.

Bargain bin shopping isn't all bad.

[CubinNY]

12 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

I think the depressing part, for me,  is not that I don't think Jed can and likely will put out a competitive team in 2024, but that I don't think he can put together a really exciting team unless there's names we don't know yet. They could reasonably put a team together with 87-88 win projections who might exceed that and put up 91-92 wins, but I don't see this team approaching the levels of the upper tier squads and I'm not sure that's going to change much in 2025 either. It's a team where even with a solid offseason, you're going to be by far the weakest likely NL division winner and in the NL East/West they might be projected to finish third. Going into the season being projected as maybe the 5th or 6th best team in the NL is just kind of ok.

With the playoff structure, you have to have a special ownership group that wants to top out. The Ricketts of the world want the best they can do at a certain price point. 

People have said that the money is there if Jed asks for it. Well, the Ricketts know Jed ain't asking. They have their man. It's a mutually beneficial relationship. They can point to all the times free agent spending hasn't worked and neglect to remember when it has worked. 

But anyway, Jed has a MO. He doesn't mind paying larger contracts, he doesn't want a larger contract for a long time. It's not hard to understand the logic, even if you don't always agree with it. It's funny how the times might change, and ownership might change, but they are still the same Cubs who want to be competitive within the division instead of wanting to blow past the division.

[Bertz]

This feels like it might be a savvy signing, weird that it was the Royals.

 

[Rob]

19 minutes ago, Bertz said:

This feels like it might be a savvy signing, weird that it was the Royals.

 

Yeah, I actually like that a fair amount. Converted back to the rotation last year and put up 2.8 fWAR in roughly 150 innings. Might be able to squeeze a bit more out of him next year.

If he's a starter, this is probably a steal. But there's a real chance he ends up back in the pen. It's probably about fair, but I like it nonetheless.

[Rcal10]

21 minutes ago, Rob said:

Yeah, I actually like that a fair amount. Converted back to the rotation last year and put up 2.8 fWAR in roughly 150 innings. Might be able to squeeze a bit more out of him next year.

If he's a starter, this is probably a steal. But there's a real chance he ends up back in the pen. It's probably about fair, but I like it nonetheless.

At $15M annual he has to be a starter. That is a lot for a pen arm. 

[Rob]

1 minute ago, Rcal10 said:

At $15M annual he has to be a starter. That is a lot for a pen arm. 

Yes and no.

Lugo has managed to put up 2.0 fWAR out of the pen before. If he can pull off a season like that every year, $15M is fair regardless of whether he's utilized as a starter or a pen arm.

That said, putting up approximately 2fWAR per year as a reliever is a heck of a difficult task. Last year, only four pitchers managed to do so. Tanner Scott, Felix Bautista, David Bednar, and Matt Brash. That said, if we lower the threshold to 1.7 fWAR, there's another 7 names.

Earning his pay would certainly be easier as a starter. But it's not impossible as a reliever.

[Rcal10]

6 minutes ago, Rob said:

Yes and no.

Lugo has managed to put up 2.0 fWAR out of the pen before. If he can pull off a season like that every year, $15M is fair regardless of whether he's utilized as a starter or a pen arm.

That said, putting up approximately 2fWAR per year as a reliever is a heck of a difficult task. Last year, only four pitchers managed to do so. Tanner Scott, Felix Bautista, David Bednar, and Matt Brash. That said, if we lower the threshold to 1.7 fWAR, there's another 7 names.

Earning his pay would certainly be easier as a starter. But it's not impossible as a reliever.

I get what you are saying. But there really isn’t a good argument for a non closer pen arm to earn $15M. And if he did, I doubt it would make sense to be on the Royals, when you consider how low their team payroll will be. 

[imb]

4 hours ago, Rob said:

Zack Greinke absconded from the Royals for a year.

It's quite possible that Meadows' career is over. But it's hardly a foregone conclusion. If he thinks he's up to it, I think he's worth gambling on.

i swear to god im going to start slapping people if you guys don't stop talking stupid.

two pages of how it's not a good idea to resign our best hitter, a 27 year old who can play gold glove centerfield and 1B, a guy who ticks every single box in what we're looking for in a hitter, and the next idea is "hey lets sign the guy who can't get out of bed in the morning"

[LBiittner]

2 hours ago, Bertz said:

This feels like it might be a savvy signing, weird that it was the Royals.

 

Heyman Royals talking to Stroman too

I wonder if it was either stroman or Lugo. Not both