Going somewhere, Soto? Yes, to the Yankees

[We Got The Whole 9]

Horton is off limits to me too in a Soto deal. I might give up Wicks if pressed. 

[Rcal10]

5 minutes ago, Cuzi said:

I would hope they would do more than trade for Soto, trade Morel for a controllable pitcher, sign Hoskins, and then throw a couple dollars at the bullpen.

That would be extremely underwhelming to me, even with Soto because it's only for 1 year, with how scorched earth they have been teasing. That would be another we are going for it but siding on "intelligent."

Well I also said sign another pitcher. I was talking about a quality starting pitcher. If they go the Soto route, and yiu expect more than that yiu are going to be very disappointed. They would be a great off season. And that would be going for it. What do you expect.

Keep in mind I want Otani instead of Soto. But my comment was strictly with the idea of a Soto trade. 

[Cuzi]

I'm already preparing for disappointment because they've been talking about being aggressive for a couple offseasons now and we've gotten Swanson and fodder.

[Rex Buckingham]

2 pre-arb arms plus more... man that seems like a lot when considering they really need to cut payroll and he's only got 1 more year before FA...

[Rcal10]

1 minute ago, Cuzi said:

I'm already preparing for disappointment because they've been talking about being aggressive for a couple offseasons now and we've gotten Swanson and fodder.

How is a Soto trade, a trade for a young controlled starting pitcher, signing Hospkins, signing a TOR starting pitcher and then a few pen arms a disappointing off season? How is that not aggressive? And they can sign Soto long term too. He doesn’t have to be gone. 

[Cuzi]

25 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

How is a Soto trade, a trade for a young controlled starting pitcher, signing Hospkins, signing a TOR starting pitcher and then a few pen arms a disappointing off season? How is that not aggressive? And they can sign Soto long term too. He doesn’t have to be gone. 

Because while trading for Soto would be aggressive, the rest of the return likely wouldn't be.

I also dont value Hoskins as much as he seems to be valued around here. He's certainly not bad, but going after him would not be "aggressive" in my opinion. He was a 2 WAR player and we would be getting him in the same vein as Bellinger last year, in that you cross your fingers on a 1 year deal that he rebuilds enough value to trade at the deadline.

You haven't even named a pitcher, either. Probably because you realize the same thing I do in that it's unlikely that if they traded for Soto, the pitcher will be at the top of the FA list. Soto's $33M is going to eat a very large chunk out of what they add in payroll. How much would you say the Cubs are going to add this offseason? Now subtract Soto and whatever Hoskins will get. What pitcher are you looking at? Is it an "aggressive" name or a Jameson Taillon?

Edited November 14, 2023 by Cuzi

[Rcal10]

3 minutes ago, Cuzi said:

Because while trading for Soto would be aggressive, the rest of the return likely wouldn't be.

I also dont value Hoskins as much as he seems to be valued around here. He's certainly not bad, but going after him would not be "aggressive" in my opinion. He was a 2 WAR player and we would be getting him in the same vein as Bellinger last year, in that you cross your fingers on a 1 year deal that he rebuilds enough value to trade at the deadline.

You haven't even named a pitcher, either. Probably because you realize the same thing I do in that it's unlikely that if they traded for Soto, the pitcher will be at the top of the FA list. Soto's $33M is going to eat a very large chunk out of what they add in payroll. How much would you say the Cubs are going to add this offseason? Now subtract Soto and whatever Hoskins will get. What pitcher are you looking at? Is it an "aggressive" name or a Jameson Taillon?

I am not naming the pitcher because I don’t know the name of the other Japanese pitcher. They can go over the LT this year and then not extend Hoskins and be under again in 25’. Maybe in 25, they can extend Soto and he can move to first. A lot can happen in 25. But jf they did all of what I said that is an aggressive very solid off season. 

[WhyCantWeWin]

56 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

I wouldn’t give them Horton. I would give them a combination of any of the other two mentioned. Then trade Morel for a young controlled pitcher and sign another pitcher. Maybe sign Hoskins as well and start the season. If they want they can spend a little on a few pen arms too. 

Yeah Horton and PCA are the only blue chip prospects in the system. Would only trade them for controllable players. Like Woo, just throwing that name because someone mentioned it on here. 

[Cuzi]

We just have very different definitions of the word aggressive. Trading for Soto and then pulling back on the rest of the signings would be passive aggressive.

[Rcal10]

3 minutes ago, Cuzi said:

We just have very different definitions of the word aggressive. Trading for Soto and then pulling back on the rest of the signings would be passive aggressive.

Again, what else do they do that would satisfy you? They are not going over the second level of the LT. Does trading for Alonso chance your stance? Does him and Soto and a young pitcher in a trade, plus a starting pitcher as a free agent do it. Does that pitcher have to be  Yamamoto? I didn’t suggest Alonso because I don’t want to lose another prospect for 1 year of him. I don’t feel Hoskins is much worse and yiu get him for just money. But for the sake of this discussion is Alonso, Soto, Yamamoto and let’s say Woo or a different Seattle pitcher a splashy enough off season for you? 

[Rcal10]

8 minutes ago, Cuzi said:

We just have very different definitions of the word aggressive. Trading for Soto and then pulling back on the rest of the signings would be passive aggressive.

You do realize other teams will want to sign guys too, right? Not getting the very top of every position is hardly pulling back. Other teams also want to make trades for guys. If yiu always give the most up on trades you are depleting the system. I would rather have Hoskins and Alcantara, as an example, then Alonso and no Alcantara. And not because I hold Alcantara in high regard to be an everyday player in the team. While he might be, the real reason I want him is he is another asset, for maybe another trade. 

[Cuzi]

There's really not much else to say if a 2 WAR player isn't that much worse than a 4 WAR player.

[Bertz]

Being like "yeah but what else did they do" beyond a hypothetical Juan Soto trade has some real "In six games" energy

[Cuzi]

15 minutes ago, Bertz said:

Being like "yeah but what else did they do" beyond a hypothetical Juan Soto trade has some real "In six games" energy

If Juan Soto was the only thing this team needed to get them to game one, I might agree.

Cubs won 83 games last season and since the end of the WS, ~7 WAR has been deleted from the roster. If you are making a play for Juan Soto on a 1 year deal, you better damn well be willing to go full blown 2022 Rangers.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Cuzi

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I will say that swapping Soto for Ohtani in the "mega bat + Hoskins + Morel SP trade" plan does leave you with plenty of financial wiggle room, especially since both Hoskins and Soto are not long term commitments. You could easily add Imanaga to that list, or aim a little lower and get the deluxe version of the RP you prefer, get a 3B, etc.

[Tim]

If we did this offseason:

• Brown + Assad for Soto ($33M)
• Sign Imanaga ($22M)
• Sign Hoskins ($15M)
• Trade Morel + Triantos for Miller/Woo (wash)
• Sign Robertson + Moore ($17M)

And someone complained they weren't being aggressive, I have no idea how I'd respond to that. Probably laughter.

[Petrey10]

2 hours ago, WhyCantWeWin said:

You mean Horton? Wesneski wouldn't be much of a loss

Never once did I say trade Horton… HAYDEN WESNESKI if that’s who they would accept for Soto even for one year. I’d do it tomorrow

[Rcal10]

49 minutes ago, Cuzi said:

There's really not much else to say if a 2 WAR player isn't that much worse than a 4 WAR player.

Alonso ops+ 136 career

Hoskins ops+ 125 career.

Not that different. Not enough to lose a prospect to get Alonso when all you have to do is pay Hoskins. Of course this is just my opinion. 
I would just rather keep the prospect in the event PCA sucks or they want to make another deal for a proven major leaguer.

I am fine with you liking Alonso more. He is better. But Hoskins isn’t bad either. 

[Rcal10]

6 minutes ago, Tim said:

If we did this offseason:

• Brown + Assad for Soto ($33M)
• Sign Imanaga ($22M)
• Sign Hoskins ($15M)
• Trade Morel + Triantos for Miller/Woo (wash)
• Sign Robertson + Moore ($17M)

And someone complained they weren't being aggressive, I have no idea how I'd respond to that. Probably laughter.

Exactly what I am trying to say. I guess it isn’t enough for some. 

[Petrey10]

4 minutes ago, Tim said:

If we did this offseason:

• Brown + Assad for Soto ($33M)
• Sign Imanaga ($22M)
• Sign Hoskins ($15M)
• Trade Morel + Triantos for Miller/Woo (wash)
• Sign Robertson + Moore ($17M)

And someone complained they weren't being aggressive, I have no idea how I'd respond to that. Probably laughter.

Imo too much for only 1 yr of Soto …. Now if Soto comes with an extension then I’d be ok with that. 
 

like imanaga

 

think everything else is very underwhelming. 
 

 

 

WE CAN GO OVER THE TAX IN 2024 for the right pieces. Lots of room in future cap for Soto and Ohtani. Or Soto and YY and Alonso

 

i don’t think we need to trade Morel. He should get shopped for a young arm or 3B. Otherwise keep him for utility

[Petrey10]

3 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

Alonso ops+ 136 career

Hoskins ops+ 125 career.

Not that different. Not enough to lose a prospect to get Alonso when all you have to do is pay Hoskins. Of course this is just my opinion. 
I would just rather keep the prospect in the event PCA sucks or they want to make another deal for a proven major leaguer.

I am fine with you liking Alonso more. He is better. But Hoskins isn’t bad either. 

I feel Hoskins is only coming up bc of Bellinger. 
 

what happened to Belli her this year is t the norm. We shouldn’t rely on that. More times than not they end up like Mancini or Hosmer….

[Rcal10]

3 minutes ago, Petrey10 said:

I feel Hoskins is only coming up bc of Bellinger. 
 

what happened to Belli her this year is t the norm. We shouldn’t rely on that. More times than not they end up like Mancini or Hosmer….

Mancini and Hosmer were bad and past their prime. Their careers were near the end and not very good before the signing. Hoskins was very good his entire time in Phillie. He got hurt so missed the year. Maybe he is a risk due to injury, but he is not in the Mancini/Hosmer class. Neither of them where very good for several years before signing with the Cubs. 

[Tim]

5 minutes ago, Petrey10 said:

Imo too much for only 1 yr of Soto …. Now if Soto comes with an extension then I’d be ok with that. 
 

like imanaga

 

think everything else is very underwhelming. 
 

 

 

WE CAN GO OVER THE TAX IN 2024 for the right pieces. Lots of room in future cap for Soto and Ohtani. Or Soto and YY and Alonso

 

i don’t think we need to trade Morel. He should get shopped for a young arm or 3B. Otherwise keep him for utility

First off...Miller/Woo are young arms:  https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2023&month=0&season1=2023&ind=0&team=11&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

So there are five moves there. You're good with the top two of Soto & Imanaga. You're getting the quality young arm with the Morel trade. If you prefer other relievers than Robertson/Moore...stick 'em in there. The idea is allocating $15-20M to the pen for veteran relievers. 

"Everything else" listed there is Hoskins. He's not exciting, but you've already added three exciting pieces in the list. If you're going to be disappointed by anything short of a Soto/Ohtani offseason, well, I'm sorry.

[We Got The Whole 9]

4 minutes ago, Petrey10 said:

I feel Hoskins is only coming up bc of Bellinger. 
 

what happened to Belli her this year is t the norm. We shouldn’t rely on that. More times than not they end up like Mancini or Hosmer….

Each of those players was 2-3 years removed from being a 120+ bat. Hoskins is 1. But the injury and how well he bounces back obviously is a major concern. 

 

I think it's a pretty good gamble on Jed's part but I can see reason for doubt.

[gocubs218]

It’s absolutely lazy to compare Hoskins to Mancini/Hosmer. They have zero in common.