Kimbrel traded to the White Sox

[cl smooth]

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/nick-madrigal-is-good-can-he-be-great/

 

He’s not going to walk, and he’s not going to strike out. In fact, he’s going to do those two things less often than anyone in the game.

 

reading that makes me think of juan pierre.

[17 Seconds]

it seems like people are unhappy with getting young high ceiling guys and also unhappy about getting quality major league ready guys. i just don't understand why anyone was expecting to get both. kimbrel was very valuable but we didn't have a scherzer/turner type package to offer up.

 

maybe i'm just happy that this hints at more of a retool than a rebuild, but i saw this trade and i was pretty happy, and i was fully aware of magridal's slappiness. he feels like a lock to be a good player.

[17 Seconds]

Madrigal horsefeathering sucks and this trade sucks. His batting average is all empty calories and he needs to make contact and BABIP at crazy levels to be worth anything. And he blew his hamstring out already and is done for the year, which certainly should be good for a slappy/defense first type.

4 WAR pace with only a .324 babip this year.

And last year with a .360 BABIP he was playing at like a .6 win pace. Hope I’m wrong, but just don’t see much upside here and think it wasn’t the proper use of Kimbrel as an asset to get a guy like this.

 

The contact/batted ball profile seems pretty bad and he’s not too fast. I just don’t see how he sustains being like a .310+ hitter. And even if he regresses to like a .270 hitter there is little value.

 

that would be a massive, career altering regression, so of course he'd then suck

[minnesotacubsfan]

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/nick-madrigal-is-good-can-he-be-great/

 

He’s not going to walk, and he’s not going to strike out. In fact, he’s going to do those two things less often than anyone in the game.

 

reading that makes me think of juan pierre.

Sloppy mcslapperson with just a bit of extra sloppy sauce

 

I don't trust it

[Cubswin11]

4 WAR pace with only a .324 babip this year.

And last year with a .360 BABIP he was playing at like a .6 win pace. Hope I’m wrong, but just don’t see much upside here and think it wasn’t the proper use of Kimbrel as an asset to get a guy like this.

 

The contact/batted ball profile seems pretty bad and he’s not too fast. I just don’t see how he sustains being like a .310+ hitter. And even if he regresses to like a .270 hitter there is little value.

 

that would be a massive, career altering regression, so of course he'd then suck

He has ~300 career major league PAs. There would be nothing career altering/massive regression if he settles in as a ~.270 hitter. He’s a slap/singles hitter with not great speed or power. Hell, last time he had 200+ PAs at any level, A+ in 2019, he slashed .270/.340/.370.

[Derwood]

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/nick-madrigal-is-good-can-he-be-great/

 

He’s not going to walk, and he’s not going to strike out. In fact, he’s going to do those two things less often than anyone in the game.

 

reading that makes me think of juan pierre.

 

Lead the league in hits with only a .30 IsoD?

[mias_tisg]

it seems like people are unhappy with getting young high ceiling guys and also unhappy about getting quality major league ready guys. i just don't understand why anyone was expecting to get both. kimbrel was very valuable but we didn't have a scherzer/turner type package to offer up.

 

maybe i'm just happy that this hints at more of a retool than a rebuild, but i saw this trade and i was pretty happy, and i was fully aware of magridal's slappiness. he feels like a lock to be a good player.

I get they're trying to go the opposite of what they just did with high contact, high average guys over what they just had. Just don't think 2 guys that do the same thing in the same infield is gonna work. I don't think Madrigal is bad by any stretch but I thought they should have gotten more than Madrigal and Heuer, instead they're handing the White Sox a good shot at a World Series.

[17 Seconds]

And last year with a .360 BABIP he was playing at like a .6 win pace. Hope I’m wrong, but just don’t see much upside here and think it wasn’t the proper use of Kimbrel as an asset to get a guy like this.

 

The contact/batted ball profile seems pretty bad and he’s not too fast. I just don’t see how he sustains being like a .310+ hitter. And even if he regresses to like a .270 hitter there is little value.

 

that would be a massive, career altering regression, so of course he'd then suck

He has ~300 career major league PAs. There would be nothing career altering/massive regression if he settles in as a ~.270 hitter. He’s a slap/singles hitter with not great speed or power. Hell, last time he had 200+ PAs at any level, A+ in 2019, he slashed .270/.340/.370.

 

he hit .309/.371.398 overall in the minors with 51 walks and 21 k. i think you're underestimating just how good he is at that specific skill set. saying "if he hits .270, he's going to suck" just doesn't make sense to me. every baseball player could start sucking at any given time, especially young players with limited experience.

[Cubswin11]

 

that would be a massive, career altering regression, so of course he'd then suck

He has ~300 career major league PAs. There would be nothing career altering/massive regression if he settles in as a ~.270 hitter. He’s a slap/singles hitter with not great speed or power. Hell, last time he had 200+ PAs at any level, A+ in 2019, he slashed .270/.340/.370.

 

he hit .309/.371.398 overall in the minors with 51 walks and 21 k. i think you're underestimating just how good he is at that specific skill set. saying "if he hits .270, he's going to suck" just doesn't make sense to me. every baseball player could start sucking at any given time, especially young players with limited experience.

I get all that and hope I’m wrong. Just think he ultimately and mostly sucks and is just some slappy/contact guy who needs to hit a ton of singles to be worth anything. And even if he does that he doesn’t bring much value for what Kimbrel should’ve returned. Not saying we couldn’t use a contact bat like him, just don’t like using Kimbrel to get it.

[Gilby]

I do like adding Madrigal's bat to the lineup, though I don't know if I love locking into a Hoerner/Madrigal middle infield w the SS free agent class as strong as it is, plus Nico might be the best defensive second baseman in baseball. Does Madrigal have the arm for 3B?

[Thusly Boned]

Some are saying Nico and Madrigal are basically the same hitter, which confuses me a bit, since while Madrigal doesn't project to develop much power, I was under the impression that Nico has a good chance to. Am I crazy?

[ChiCubsFan]

I do like adding Madrigal's bat to the lineup, though I don't know if I love locking into a Hoerner/Madrigal middle infield w the SS free agent class as strong as it is, plus Nico might be the best defensive second baseman in baseball. Does Madrigal have the arm for 3B?

 

I’m guessing they go Nico/Nick middle infield for a couple years till Hernandez or Howard are ready (2024?). Can Madrigal play anywhere else?

[UK]

I do like adding Madrigal's bat to the lineup, though I don't know if I love locking into a Hoerner/Madrigal middle infield w the SS free agent class as strong as it is, plus Nico might be the best defensive second baseman in baseball. Does Madrigal have the arm for 3B?

 

Madrigal has accuracy issues from 2b combine that and an average arm, I don't want to find out if he can become a below average 3b both offensively and defensively.

[Andy]

I do like adding Madrigal's bat to the lineup, though I don't know if I love locking into a Hoerner/Madrigal middle infield w the SS free agent class as strong as it is, plus Nico might be the best defensive second baseman in baseball. Does Madrigal have the arm for 3B?

There's no law saying the Cubs can't trade Nico (or Madrigal) plus something for pitching and sign a good SS in the offseason.

[Thusly Boned]

I do like adding Madrigal's bat to the lineup, though I don't know if I love locking into a Hoerner/Madrigal middle infield w the SS free agent class as strong as it is, plus Nico might be the best defensive second baseman in baseball. Does Madrigal have the arm for 3B?

There's no law saying the Cubs can't trade Nico (or Madrigal) plus something for pitching and sign a good SS in the offseason.

 

Yeah, I feel pretty confident Jed isn't just going to sit on his hands this offseason.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Madrigal was a consensus top 5 pick and has a 70 hit tool as his defining attribute, of course he’s not going to be useful if his greatest strength is only okay at the MLB level. It’s tantamount to saying drafting Vogelbach was a mistake because if he only hits 15 HR he’s not gonna be good.

 

However, even if you drop his average to .270, with this year’s walk rate, power, and defense you are basically describing 2021 Whit Merrifield, who is playing at a 3 win pace.

[Splendid Splinter]

So I'm trying to figure out a good comp for Madrigal since you guys are talking about his bat profile and contact skills, defense, etc and I haven't been paying much attention outside of the Cubs the past 2 years or so. Trying to get a sense of what we should "expect" the next couple years from him.

 

The guy that's popping in my head is Placido Polanco. Is that close or am I way off?

[Cubswin11]

So I'm trying to figure out a good comp for Madrigal since you guys are talking about his bat profile and contact skills, defense, etc and I haven't been paying much attention outside of the Cubs the past 2 years or so. Trying to get a sense of what we should "expect" the next couple years from him.

 

The guy that's popping in my head is Placido Polanco. Is that close or am I way off?

Think that’s a good comp, but different era. Modern day comp is probably David Fletcher, which is a plenty useful guy. Just, again, don’t like using the Kimbrel capital to acquire that.

[We Got The Whole 9]

I would like Madrigal a whole lot more if he worked on cutting down his chase rate. Take some walks. Like, I'm fairly certain he will never elevate the ball, and, frankly, we probably don't want him to. His 85 EV makes for a [expletive] of dying quails. He will have to keep his pound the ground approach, really. Just hope he maintains his speed and gets enough hustle doubles or something.

 

I wonder if they believe Heuer can start.

[Backtobanks]

So I'm trying to figure out a good comp for Madrigal since you guys are talking about his bat profile and contact skills, defense, etc and I haven't been paying much attention outside of the Cubs the past 2 years or so. Trying to get a sense of what we should "expect" the next couple years from him.

 

The guy that's popping in my head is Placido Polanco. Is that close or am I way off?

 

Nellie Fox made the HOF with that bat profile and contact skills.

[d_money]

Kimbrel, Tepera, Cease and Eloy. I’d say the WS won the trades. Holy crap did the Cubs get fleeced.

[muntjack]

There is no way they're flipping Madrigal into something else. They've gone on for too long about needing more contact, and they added the most contact-oriented hitter in the game. It's so frustrating to me because a contact guy like Castellanos, who, again, wanted to continue playing for the Cubs and who had the ability to actually hit the ball hard, was shown the door.

 

Every issue this team had this season was easily addressed by simply keeping players that were already here. Hoerner got hurt, but his profile + Castellanos would have gone a long way toward mitigating those issues. Darvish, of course. Schwarber instead of Pederson. The front office created this mess, and now we're back to 2011.

[Bertz]

I do like adding Madrigal's bat to the lineup, though I don't know if I love locking into a Hoerner/Madrigal middle infield w the SS free agent class as strong as it is, plus Nico might be the best defensive second baseman in baseball. Does Madrigal have the arm for 3B?

There's no law saying the Cubs can't trade Nico (or Madrigal) plus something for pitching and sign a good SS in the offseason.

 

Yeah, I kind of wonder if we don't see Nico start getting time in CF again when he's off the IL. Next year he can own center (or at least the RH half of a platoon) until Davis is ready, and then shift into a Zobtist/supersub role.

[cl smooth]

Kimbrel, Tepera, Cease and Eloy. I’d say the WS won the trades. Holy crap did the Cubs get fleeced.

 

the guy is going to kill himself in the outfield...

 

[WrigleyField 22]

I do like adding Madrigal's bat to the lineup, though I don't know if I love locking into a Hoerner/Madrigal middle infield w the SS free agent class as strong as it is, plus Nico might be the best defensive second baseman in baseball. Does Madrigal have the arm for 3B?

There's no law saying the Cubs can't trade Nico (or Madrigal) plus something for pitching and sign a good SS in the offseason.

When I saw the trade I kind of felt (with no basis) that Madrigal is destined to get flipped again.