Potential Kris Bryant trade thread

[Named After Maddux]

There's a lot of caveats here (not sure about this guy's legitimacy, if this is legit who this came from, names listed are only the first or second player targeted etc), but presented on the slim chance this is anything:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/JohnMcGrathMLB/status/1206344780009164800[/tweet]

 

This guy was at MLB Winter Meetings (that doesn't necessarily mean anything since my Dad and I went last year) so maybe he has some connections. He has 1200 followers, not verified though.

 

So this looks like:

Bohm + N (Guessing Neris not Nola for obvious reasons). If It's "M", then likely Medina

India

Toro + Hernandez (?); I can't find a "Hernandez", which is one of the reasons I'm skeptical. Unless the intern writing didn't realize it was "Alvarez".

Robert (certainly higher ceiling than others, but wouldn't understand why this would be ranked lower if this is a ranking)

Adell (same thing as Robert)

... "ire" (heck if I know)

 

Overall if legit, I'm not impressed. I'm already in the camp of don't trade KB, but unless they get huge returns from ATL, LAD, WAS, PHI I'm not likely to look forward to the return. Adell and Robert do have the ceiling you'd like to see, but need a controllable SP to come back too.

[Splendid Splinter]

Last one is Casey Mize. It's ize, not ire.

[Cubswin11]

That guy is basically just Charles The Cat. No way that’s real, at least more effort than anything the cat has ever put in to a lie/dot connecting to write down names on loose leaf and lie about it like that. Edited December 16, 2019 by Cubswin11

[Transmogrified Tiger]

How do you even get that picture? Not that it's not fun to speculate, but you need a situation where Theo Epstein is at the Winter Meetings sitting somewhere accessible to the public looking at a handwritten list of names to trade for

 

I thought the implication is that the source created the list based on info they know, not that the source is sneaking photos of a piece of paper Theo happened to write his wish list on.

[Tryptamine]

That list doesn't make any sense at all. There is an enormous gulf between some of those guy's value. Toro is not in the same league as the rest. By the way, Toro-Hernandez is the name of one guy.

[Cubswin11]

That list doesn't make any sense at all. There is an enormous gulf between some of those guy's value. Toro is not in the same league as the rest. By the way, Toro-Hernandez is the name of one guy.

Yup, Abraham Toro on fangraphs if anyone cares to look in to him.

[Named After Maddux]

That list doesn't make any sense at all. There is an enormous gulf between some of those guy's value. Toro is not in the same league as the rest. By the way, Toro-Hernandez is the name of one guy.

 

*face palm* that’s right. I completely forgot his full name was Abraham Toro-Hernandez. That makes more sense.

 

Still I can’t put much stock in this. The names don’t match the suitors we’ve heard for Bryant outside of Philly. Even if it wasn’t directly fabricated by this guy it feels more like what someone in the industry felt might be what the Cubs are looking for via scuttlebutt.

 

I mean Detroit is about as bad of an example of a team targeting Bryant as there could be. So yes I’m sure the Cubs would like Mize in a vacuum, but Detroit is far more likely to sell off further than go all in for the next two seasons.

[Brian]

With the Indians raising the white flag, the only acceptable option is becoming more possible, get a 3rd team and get Lindor

[Backtobanks]

With the Indians raising the white flag, the only acceptable option is becoming more possible, get a 3rd team and get Lindor

 

I'm not sure they're raising the white flag: from MLBTR

Indians Interested In Cesar Hernandez

[KingCubsFan]

There's a lot of caveats here (not sure about this guy's legitimacy, if this is legit who this came from, names listed are only the first or second player targeted etc), but presented on the slim chance this is anything:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/JohnMcGrathMLB/status/1206344780009164800[/tweet]

 

This guy was at MLB Winter Meetings (that doesn't necessarily mean anything since my Dad and I went last year) so maybe he has some connections. He has 1200 followers, not verified though.

 

So this looks like:

Bohm + N (Guessing Neris not Nola for obvious reasons). If It's "M", then likely Medina

India

Toro + Hernandez (?); I can't find a "Hernandez", which is one of the reasons I'm skeptical. Unless the intern writing didn't realize it was "Alvarez".

Robert (certainly higher ceiling than others, but wouldn't understand why this would be ranked lower if this is a ranking)

Adell (same thing as Robert)

... "ire" (heck if I know)

 

Overall if legit, I'm not impressed. I'm already in the camp of don't trade KB, but unless they get huge returns from ATL, LAD, WAS, PHI I'm not likely to look forward to the return. Adell and Robert do have the ceiling you'd like to see, but need a controllable SP to come back too.

Unfortunately, Adell and Robert are probably viewed as more valuable than Bryant on their own at this point.

[sneakypower]

the 2-3 arrow is freaking me out a little bit, as if that's indicative of a concerted type of ordering there

[squally1313]

I remain completely and entirely baffled by the idea of looking at our current roster, which could, on the whole, be generously described as 'just past their peak', seeing pretty much no high impact talent anywhere in our system, and looking at the contract situation where our entire line up is a free agent or up for a big raise in two years, and thinking the best path to success here is to replace our best player with someone who, if things go perfectly right, will peak in about 2023.

[JudasIscariotTheBird]

I remain completely and entirely baffled by the idea of looking at our current roster, which could, on the whole, be generously described as 'just past their peak', seeing pretty much no high impact talent anywhere in our system, and looking at the contract situation where our entire line up is a free agent or up for a big raise in two years, and thinking the best path to success here is to replace our best player with someone who, if things go perfectly right, will peak in about 2023.

[squally1313]

From someone who put his feelings into words a lot better than me:

 

And again, this is all horseshit, a word that’s becoming synonymous with everything Cubs right now. The Cubs aren’t trading Bryant because they think it improves anything, short-term or long. It’s because they don’t want to pay him what he will earn in two years, and they don’t even want to pay him what he will get this year in arbitration. It’s not a “strategy.” It’s simple greed. The new buildings are up, the luxury suites are in, and Ricketts doesn’t have to do much to watch the money flow in. So he’s not going to.

 

https://faxesfromuncledale.com/my-brian-hurt-like-a-warehouse-it-had-no-room-to-spare/

[Bertz]

From someone who put his feelings into words a lot better than me:

 

And again, this is all horsefeathers, a word that’s becoming synonymous with everything Cubs right now. The Cubs aren’t trading Bryant because they think it improves anything, short-term or long. It’s because they don’t want to pay him what he will earn in two years, and they don’t even want to pay him what he will get this year in arbitration. It’s not a “strategy.” It’s simple greed. The new buildings are up, the luxury suites are in, and Ricketts doesn’t have to do much to watch the money flow in. So he’s not going to.

 

https://faxesfromuncledale.com/my-brian-hurt-like-a-warehouse-it-had-no-room-to-spare/

 

Yeah this is the thing that needs to be said over and over again regardless of which side of this discussion you're on. Given the implied constraints on payroll, I personally view trading KB as a best path forward. But these constraints are completley artificial and this entire discussion is premised on a false choice put forth by the team's ghoulish owners.

[KingCubsFan]

I remain completely and entirely baffled by the idea of looking at our current roster, which could, on the whole, be generously described as 'just past their peak', seeing pretty much no high impact talent anywhere in our system, and looking at the contract situation where our entire line up is a free agent or up for a big raise in two years, and thinking the best path to success here is to replace our best player with someone who, if things go perfectly right, will peak in about 2023.

It really comes down to whether you want to maximize the chances for a championship over the next 2 years and then do a rebuild or try to smooth that transition. Theo has chosen the latter, although he’s basically been forced to since ownership has shown no willingness to increase payroll enough to go all out.

[Marlin Bystro]

From someone who put his feelings into words a lot better than me:

 

And again, this is all horsefeathers, a word that’s becoming synonymous with everything Cubs right now. The Cubs aren’t trading Bryant because they think it improves anything, short-term or long. It’s because they don’t want to pay him what he will earn in two years, and they don’t even want to pay him what he will get this year in arbitration. It’s not a “strategy.” It’s simple greed. The new buildings are up, the luxury suites are in, and Ricketts doesn’t have to do much to watch the money flow in. So he’s not going to.

 

https://faxesfromuncledale.com/my-brian-hurt-like-a-warehouse-it-had-no-room-to-spare/

 

Yes....Ricketts wants the Cubs underneath the lux tax. That's what is driving this. Very frustrating.

[Bull]

From someone who put his feelings into words a lot better than me:

 

And again, this is all horsefeathers, a word that’s becoming synonymous with everything Cubs right now. The Cubs aren’t trading Bryant because they think it improves anything, short-term or long. It’s because they don’t want to pay him what he will earn in two years, and they don’t even want to pay him what he will get this year in arbitration. It’s not a “strategy.” It’s simple greed. The new buildings are up, the luxury suites are in, and Ricketts doesn’t have to do much to watch the money flow in. So he’s not going to.

 

https://faxesfromuncledale.com/my-brian-hurt-like-a-warehouse-it-had-no-room-to-spare/

 

Yes....Ricketts wants the Cubs underneath the lux tax. That's what is driving this. Very frustrating.

I agree with you, but not the post you quoted.

Teams have decided to treat the luxury tax as a salary cap. I think Ricketts is doing what he’s told.

[squally1313]

From someone who put his feelings into words a lot better than me:

 

And again, this is all horsefeathers, a word that’s becoming synonymous with everything Cubs right now. The Cubs aren’t trading Bryant because they think it improves anything, short-term or long. It’s because they don’t want to pay him what he will earn in two years, and they don’t even want to pay him what he will get this year in arbitration. It’s not a “strategy.” It’s simple greed. The new buildings are up, the luxury suites are in, and Ricketts doesn’t have to do much to watch the money flow in. So he’s not going to.

 

https://faxesfromuncledale.com/my-brian-hurt-like-a-warehouse-it-had-no-room-to-spare/

 

Yes....Ricketts wants the Cubs underneath the lux tax. That's what is driving this. Very frustrating.

I agree with you, but not the post you quoted.

Teams have decided to treat the luxury tax as a salary cap. I think Ricketts is doing what he’s told.

By....who? Who do you think is in charge here?

[sneakypower]

poor guy, just wants to sign big checks but the bean counters are telling him he can't

[toonsterwu]

Honestly, with the way the pitching market has fallen ... I keep thinking that, if the goal is to get under ... that there might be a chance we could move Darvish. Angels still have a boatload of money to spend, still haven't upgraded the rotation, and the remaining money on Darvish's deal isn't that bad (4/81). No idea what 12 teams he has on his no-trade, though, but that said, it's a west coast club that was reportedly in on him when he was a FA. Instead of paying the money down (if the goal is to lose money), maybe you couple that with a Willson Contreras and see if the Angels would fork over some sort of Brandon Marsh-led package. In my mind, it makes some sense for both sides.

 

_______

 

I just have a hard seeing the White Sox move Luis Robert in any deal. In general, I still doubt any team would fork over an elite prospect for a one year gamble. Two years would be a different issue. About the only team that I could see get that desperate might be the Phillies.

[Cubswin11]

Honestly, with the way the pitching market has fallen ... I keep thinking that, if the goal is to get under ... that there might be a chance we could move Darvish. Angels still have a boatload of money to spend, still haven't upgraded the rotation, and the remaining money on Darvish's deal isn't that bad (4/81). No idea what 12 teams he has on his no-trade, though, but that said, it's a west coast club that was reportedly in on him when he was a FA. Instead of paying the money down (if the goal is to lose money), maybe you couple that with a Willson Contreras and see if the Angels would fork over some sort of Brandon Marsh-led package. In my mind, it makes some sense for both sides.

If the goal is just to get under, which if that’s the case a full rebuild and tear down should be on the table, but if it’s just for this year and greener pastures and actual spending can happen next year why not just move Q and attach a prospect to Chatwood and/or Kimbrel and be done with it? That allows everything to stay in tact for next year if we can actually spend and reload vs some half measure stuff of moving our best or 2nd best pitcher in Yu but still trying to win.

[toonsterwu]

If the only goal is getting under, then yeah, that could work.

 

If getting under is only one goal ... and there are secondary goals (like staying competitive next year, rebuilding the system a bit, cleaning up the sheets for the future a bit), then things are slightly different (deleted original comments totally misread quintana contract last night.)

Edited December 18, 2019 by toonsterwu

[Deeg]

If the only goal is getting under, then yeah, that could work.

 

If getting under is only one goal ... and there are secondary goals (like staying competitive next year, rebuilding the system a bit, cleaning up the sheets for the future a bit), then things are slightly different (although I could buy an argument that Quintana at 2/21 would fetch higher quality than Darvish at 4/81).

 

Where are you getting 2/21 with Quintana? He's a FA in 2021.

[toonsterwu]

Ha my bad misread the contract last night.