It's Maddoning

[Brian]

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ONE YEAR LATER

 

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[squally1313]

Do we have a lot of evidence of batters not being ok with pitchers showing emotion, especially in a hypocritical sense?

 

I totally get where jersey's coming from in terms of not wanting to be embarrassed, but I think at this level it only adds to the intrigue/drama of the game. These guys are the best in the world. Let them pimp it, and if they get it back later on, all the better.

 

One of our guys (I think it actually was Javy) got pissed at Amir Garret last season, if I remember correctly.

 

Obviously biased, but just rewatched that clip on youtube...Garrett gave out a big yell/flex after getting Javy to swing through a curveball, and Baez looked like he just responded by looking back at him while taking off the elbow pad, shin guard, etc. Then Garret kept staring on his walk to the dugout and looks like he was the one who started talking first (all you can see is him, but when they flash back to Javy he's doing the talking motion with his hand, like that's what the problem was). It essentially looked like Baez was like 'if you're going to talk, say it to my face'.

 

Here's the link to the Baez interview afterwards, in which he remains the best: [bbvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZcxQkZostM[/bbvideo]

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Amir Garrett uncorked a wild fastball warming up in the pen in Atlanta last season and nearly plunked me in the side of my noggin. horsefeathers that guy.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

Good finds and memories, everyone.

[JennieGarthAlgar]

I realize he is talking about celebrations on the field but its just so weird to me that he's taking this position when im pretty sure the Cubs still have a horsefeathering celebration area built into the lockerroom and a camera in the bullpen that exists only to capture our pitchers celebrating homeruns.

 

Just shut up, Joe.

[SouthSideRyan]

At the risk of summoning the anti-anti-fun brigade, is it really that objectionable that he says "I'd prefer if people liked the sport for the sport, and not the celebrations"? He doesn't even say or imply the celebrations are bad or too much.

 

What the hell do we call a hot take that is somehow also insanely boring? Because that's what this is.

 

A Derwood

[biittner77]

Do we have a lot of evidence of batters not being ok with pitchers showing emotion, especially in a hypocritical sense?

 

 

Why is a bat flip considered disrespectful? The dong is what's important? After giving up a dong does a pitcher feel any better if the guy politely rounds the bases?

[squally1313]

Do we have a lot of evidence of batters not being ok with pitchers showing emotion, especially in a hypocritical sense?

 

 

Why is a bat flip considered disrespectful? The dong is what's important? After giving up a dong does a pitcher feel any better if the guy politely rounds the bases?

 

I think we're on the same page, as I don't find them disrespectful. I was responding to Old Style talking about how hitters need to be ok with pitchers showing emotion too, which I don't consider much of a problem.

[Derwood]

At the risk of summoning the anti-anti-fun brigade, is it really that objectionable that he says "I'd prefer if people liked the sport for the sport, and not the celebrations"? He doesn't even say or imply the celebrations are bad or too much.

 

What the hell do we call a hot take that is somehow also insanely boring? Because that's what this is.

 

A Derwood

[Banedon]

“I still want to see the better approach with runners in scoring position,” Maddon said. “As you get deeper into this whole thing — and as you get to the playoffs — the pitching’s really good. And to just rely on homers, to me, is a bad method, so I really want to get this straightened out where we become more what we had been early in the season.

 

“Again, I want it all. I’m sorry, I do. I want less strikeouts. I want more walks. I want RBIs on singles, and I want homers. I want tight defense. I want pitchers to beat up on the 1-1 count. God, I sound like Kevin Costner right now.”

[Sammy Sofa]

[Sammy Sofa]

Love how that whole thing reads like he's basically shrugging and dying to say, "but what could *I* POSSIBLY do?!? How did it EVER get to this point? I just wish they did what I wanted, mew-mew-mewwwwwwww."

[BigSlick]

I still don't believe there is any such skill as "hitting with RISP" I just think its mostly bad luck

 

Maybe a little bit of choke. There's certainly no special approach that can change it. Just being better hitters.

[Regular Show]

I still don't believe there is any such skill as "hitting with RISP" I just think its mostly bad luck.

 

Well, then the Cubs have been having "bad luck" hitting w/ RISP for multiple seasons now. I don't think it's just random noise at this point.

 

Theo has mentioned it many times about needing a better approach and needing to do better in situational hitting. I don't agree with Maddon very often these days, but he's right about this issue.

[squally1313]

I still don't believe there is any such skill as "hitting with RISP" I just think its mostly bad luck.

 

Well, then the Cubs have been having "bad luck" hitting w/ RISP for multiple seasons now. I don't think it's just random noise at this point.

 

Theo has mentioned it many times about needing a better approach and needing to do better in situational hitting. I don't agree with Maddon very often these days, but he's right about this issue.

 

I'm still mostly on team 'bad luck'. The Cubs are OPSing .852 this year with runners on, good for fourth in the league. Highest OBP in the league. .316 BABIP (5th in baseball). With RISP, their K rate actually goes down (21.4% with men on, 20.6% with RISP), but their OPS drops to .793, 15th in the league. BABIP is .276 (3rd worst in baseball).

 

Beyond that, I can see getting pissed off at someone like Almora or Russell or Schwarber (who is historically bad in these situations) for not changing their approach. But you lose me when you start talking about the four elite hitters on our team, who I want hitting just like they always do pretty much all the time.

[Sammy Sofa]

Shockingly, surrounding 4 good hitters with 4 black holes + the pitcher on pretty much a daily basis sometimes reveals some...hiccups in the team construction.

[squally1313]

Shockingly, surrounding 4 good hitters with 4 black holes + the pitcher on pretty much a daily basis sometimes reveals some...hiccups in the team construction.

Probably shouldn't look at how Schwarber and Heyward are doing this year, relative to the rest of baseball. I mean...we've already done this.

[Sammy Sofa]

Well, it was basically impossible for them to NOT go into the season with this obvious tire fire of an OF! Look how many other bad OFers are out there!

[squally1313]

Well, it was basically impossible for them to NOT go into the season with this obvious tire fire of an OF! Look how many other bad OFers are out there!

[Cubswin11]

Well, it was basically impossible for them to NOT go into the season with this obvious tire fire of an OF! Look how many other bad OFers are out there!

Schwarber and Heyward aren’t the problem, it’s the 4 other black holes who have been making up the non backup catcher spot of the roster all year. Zagunis, Aducci, Almora, Descalso, Russell and Cargo.

[Sammy Sofa]

The Cubs are going to be lucky to end up with a combined 4+ fWAR out of their corner OF spots; that's inexcusable after all their BS talk of windows and waves every game/season being important and whatnot. Being comparably bad as X number of other teams isn't some kind of amazing counterargument; it just means the Cubs failed to rise above the pack. Why the hell would anyone look at that as acceptable?

[Sammy Sofa]

Well, it was basically impossible for them to NOT go into the season with this obvious tire fire of an OF! Look how many other bad OFers are out there!

 

[squally1313]

The Cubs are going to be lucky to end up with a combined 4+ fWAR out of their corner OF spots; that's inexcusable after all their BS talk of windows and waves every game/season being important and whatnot. Being comparably bad as X number of other teams isn't some kind of amazing counterargument; it just means the Cubs failed to rise above the pack. Why the hell would anyone look at that as acceptable?

Because it's entirely unrealistic to expect any team to 'rise above the pack' at all 8 spots in the field. The Cubs are 2nd at C, 9th at 1st, 8th at SS, and 2nd at 3rd (and that's team wide, not just the starters). 12th in the outfield in total. 2nd is 18th, and I'm not sure how they should have prepared for their starter getting divorced and quitting the team 4 weeks into the year, although they did bring back a domestic abuser that no one wanted in the first place. All in all, that seems pretty good to me. You aren't going to roll 7s everywhere.

[Sammy Sofa]

The Cubs are going to be lucky to end up with a combined 4+ fWAR out of their corner OF spots; that's inexcusable after all their BS talk of windows and waves every game/season being important and whatnot. Being comparably bad as X number of other teams isn't some kind of amazing counterargument; it just means the Cubs failed to rise above the pack. Why the hell would anyone look at that as acceptable?

Because it's entirely unrealistic to expect any team to 'rise above the pack' at all 8 spots in the field.

 

Wow.

 

 

I'm not asking for the Cubs to be worldbeaters at every position, or every OF spot.

 

I think we all ideally want to think of the Cubs as being able to be lumped in with the likes of the Dodgers and the Yankees and Astros (and hell, the Twins). They explicitly stood pat as if they were all but a sure thing to be in that rarefied air again, but it was obvious the ENTIRE OF was a series of question marks at best. The best bet was Schwarber, and even that was, yet again, hinged largely on defensive value that was unlikely to be a consistent thing. How is it unrealistic or unfair to have wanted them to do whatever they could to try and upgrade just ONE of the OF spots to be a better shot of being more than average at best?

 

This feels like it's gotten to the point where I'm basically wishing that the Cubs had 5 good hitters on the team instead of 4, and that's some kind of crazy unreasonable idea.

[Cubswin11]

The Cubs are going to be lucky to end up with a combined 4+ fWAR out of their corner OF spots; that's inexcusable after all their BS talk of windows and waves every game/season being important and whatnot. Being comparably bad as X number of other teams isn't some kind of amazing counterargument; it just means the Cubs failed to rise above the pack. Why the hell would anyone look at that as acceptable?

Because it's entirely unrealistic to expect any team to 'rise above the pack' at all 8 spots in the field.

 

Wow.

 

 

I'm not asking for the Cubs to be worldbeaters at every position, or every OF spot.

 

I think we all ideally want to think of the Cubs as being able to be lumped in with the likes of the Dodgers and the Yankees and Astros (and hell, the Twins). They explicitly stood pat as if they were all but a sure thing to be in that rarefied air again, but it was obvious the ENTIRE OF was a series of question marks at best. The best bet was Schwarber, and even that was, yet again, hinged largely on defensive value that was unlikely to be a consistent thing. How is it unrealistic or unfair to have wanted them to do whatever they could to try and upgrade just ONE of the OF spots to be a better shot of being more than average at best?

 

This feels like it's gotten to the point where I'm basically wishing that the Cubs had 5 good hitters on the team instead of 4, and that's some kind of crazy unreasonable idea.

It's been hashed out a ton but Schwarber was one of the best LF'ers in baseball last year regardless of defense. He was top 10 in Dongs, ISO, OBP, SLG, wOBA and tied for 11th in wRC+ and he was top 5-7 in a handful of those stats too. Do we want him to be more, yes, but he was still pretty good last year and made perfect sense to stand pat on him/LF.