Marcell Ozuna Traded to the Cardinals

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Sandy Alcantara, their #4 prospect is one of the guys going.

 

Meh. Would rather see the Cardinals part with Reyes, Flaherty and/or Weaver.

[Bertz]

I think this is good news generally. The Cards were always going to make a big move this winter, and in my opinion Ozuna is the least scary of the names they've been linked to. They took a big bite out of their depth to be 5 games back of us rather than 7.

 

The obvious downside is if they're not done. If they were to say "horsefeathers it" they could go grab Manny Machado and Wade Davis, and at that point I'm not entirely sure we're still better than them.

If they traded a bunch of good prospects for one-year of Machado and signed Davis to a 4-year contract, I'd be okay with that. They'd be a much better team for one year (and definitely give the Cubs a run for their money for the NL Central) while giving up many of their best prospects and potentially hamstringing their payroll a bit by paying big for a closer.

 

IMO, the Cubs would still be the envy of the division (with Milwaukee gaining) because their line-up is so young they are likely to get better over the next 2-3 years offensively without "improving" the roster with outside acquisitions.

 

Absolutely, they'd be pushing all their chips in to be comparable to us for one year (and that's assuming we don't pivot by grabbing Archer or something). It would suck, but even that unpleasant scenario ends with them crying about losing their MVP candidate while we will be cheerfully debate whether we still want Harper or if we'd rather go get Machado for spite.

 

The Cards are a sinking ship, it's just that they haven't sunk enough yet where adding an MVP candidate can't keep them afloat for another year.

[Cubswin11]

Sounds like Piscotty is going to the A's

[Agony and Ivy]

 

Milwaukee is still trash and they'll prove it by winning 77ish games this year.

Maybe. Maybe not if they acquire Archer or Cole or someone like that. Regardless of their win total in 2018, they're still young and improving.

They really aren't that young outside of Arcia, Hader and Philips/Brinson. All the guys that carried them last year were older and had career years (Anderson, Davies, Shaw, Santana, Thames, Sogard, etc) most are big regression candidates for me personally.

 

Holy horsefeathers. Cubswin and Cubswin11 are two separate posters. I thought you were arguing with yourself for a second.

[Cubswin11]

Maybe. Maybe not if they acquire Archer or Cole or someone like that. Regardless of their win total in 2018, they're still young and improving.

They really aren't that young outside of Arcia, Hader and Philips/Brinson. All the guys that carried them last year were older and had career years (Anderson, Davies, Shaw, Santana, Thames, Sogard, etc) most are big regression candidates for me personally.

 

Holy horsefeathers. Cubswin and Cubswin11 are two separate posters. I thought you were arguing with yourself for a second.

I promise you I don't have a Peterman situation going on here

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Geez, they got Ozuna for the equivalent of Dylan Cease and lesser parts:

 

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[Liam Neeson]

Geez, they got Ozuna for the equivalent of Dylan Cease and lesser parts:

 

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And the Marlins didn't dump the Volquez contract on them?

[David]

Geez, they got Ozuna for the equivalent of Dylan Cease and lesser parts:

 

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out of curiosity, who is making personnel decisions for the marlins right now?

[Cubswin11]

Geez, they got Ozuna for the equivalent of Dylan Cease and lesser parts:

 

[tweet]

[/tweet]

 

out of curiosity, who is making personnel decisions for the marlins right now?

Idk if the Marlins even know that

[Thusly Boned]

Geez, they got Ozuna for the equivalent of Dylan Cease and lesser parts:

 

[tweet]

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out of curiosity, who is making personnel decisions for the marlins right now?

 

I don't know, but their collective bed is being [expletive] in, that's for certain.

[CubsWin]

 

Milwaukee is still trash and they'll prove it by winning 77ish games this year.

Maybe. Maybe not if they acquire Archer or Cole or someone like that. Regardless of their win total in 2018, they're still young and improving.

They really aren't that young outside of Arcia, Hader and Philips/Brinson. All the guys that carried them last year were older and had career years (Anderson, Davies, Shaw, Santana, Thames, Sogard, etc) most are big regression candidates for me personally.

I agree with that. I'm speaking organizationally. They had 7 guys in MLB's top 100 at the end of last season with others who could pop this year (Lutz, Peralta, Bickford, Gatewood. etc.).

 

And they've got a pretty good group of young players on the major league roster. Knebel (26) was a really good closer for them. He's under control thru 2021. Nelson (28) and Davies (24) along with Hader (23) if he joins the rotation as rumored form a solid group of young controllable starters. Travis Shaw (27) is under control thru 2021. Santana (25), Arcia, (23) and Brinson (23) form a nice core of young, very good players with Villar (26) a strong bounce back candidate.

 

If the Cards trade away a good chunk of their farm for 2 years of Ozuna and 1 of Machado, I'd say the Brewers would be in a better long term position. No real threat to the Cubs as things stand now, though, just "gaining" on them and improving as an organization.

[Banedon]

[Sammy Sofa]

Geez, they got Ozuna for the equivalent of Dylan Cease and lesser parts:

 

[tweet]

[/tweet]

 

out of curiosity, who is making personnel decisions for the marlins right now?

 

I don't know, but their collective bed is being [expletive] in, that's for certain.

 

Turns out Jeets is a big fan of receiving gift baskets, too.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Maybe. Maybe not if they acquire Archer or Cole or someone like that. Regardless of their win total in 2018, they're still young and improving.

They really aren't that young outside of Arcia, Hader and Philips/Brinson. All the guys that carried them last year were older and had career years (Anderson, Davies, Shaw, Santana, Thames, Sogard, etc) most are big regression candidates for me personally.

I agree with that. I'm speaking organizationally. They had 7 guys in MLB's top 100 at the end of last season with others who could pop this year (Lutz, Peralta, Bickford, Gatewood. etc.).

 

And they've got a pretty good group of young players on the major league roster. Knebel (26) was a really good closer for them. He's under control thru 2021. Nelson (28) and Davies (24) along with Hader (23) if he joins the rotation as rumored form a solid group of young controllable starters. Travis Shaw (27) is under control thru 2021. Santana (25), Arcia, (23) and Brinson (23) form a nice core of young, very good players with Villar (26) a strong bounce back candidate.

 

If the Cards trade away a good chunk of their farm for 2 years of Ozuna and 1 of Machado, I'd say the Brewers would be in a better long term position. No real threat to the Cubs as things stand now, though, just "gaining" on them and improving as an organization.

 

I don't have time to find the post where I tried to say this more eloquently, but they basically have to thread the needle on all those guys to make the advancement they need to make to get to the Cubs' level. They aren't at risk of falling off to 60 wins or anything, especially with the Pirates waning, but they're basically hoping to have enough young guys be sustainably okay so they can be the 2017 Cardinals and win 85 games. They don't have the stars unless someone like Hader or Brinson way overshoots their likely outcome, and even then they have to make up for Nelson's star turn last year because his arm exploded.

[The_Achiever]

Feels like a great trade for the Cardinals. Alcantara figures to be a reliever, no? Was hoping they'd have to give up one their young starters.

[UMFan83]

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[Cubswin11]

Looking at the numbers I’m not seeing much difference between Alcantara and Alzolay other than Alcantara had a nominal MLB stint this past year. So if Passan is right and Yelich is available and Nightengale is being his usual buffoon self even if the asking price is “substantially higher” Happ and Monty seem to be substantially higher than a version of Alzolay the Cardinals just traded as their main piece

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Looking at the numbers I’m not seeing much difference between Alcantara and Alzolay other than Alcantara had a nominal MLB stint this past year

 

Alcantara has better stuff and worse control, like was said upstream he's more likely than not to be a reliever, and potentially a very good one.

 

It's a good trade for the Cardinals to make, although I am happy that Ozuna is likely the best bat they'll acquire. I would guess his 2018 looks more like his 2016 than his 2017, between likely regression and a couple other minor factors(opposition, ballpark, etc). Even if not and he repeats, he's not enough even with more relievers like Colome to move the needle on the median division outcome.

[Cubswin11]

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[Aaron_Kennelly]

That's a good trade for the Cardinals. It's not going to matter. But a good trade, nonetheless.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Looking at the numbers I’m not seeing much difference between Alcantara and Alzolay other than Alcantara had a nominal MLB stint this past year. So if Passan is right and Yelich is available and Nightengale is being his usual buffoon self even if the asking price is “substantially higher” Happ and Monty seem to be substantially higher than a version of Alzolay the Cardinals just traded as their main piece

 

I'm sticking with my Cease comparison from earlier this thread. Likely reliever.

[CubsWin]

They really aren't that young outside of Arcia, Hader and Philips/Brinson. All the guys that carried them last year were older and had career years (Anderson, Davies, Shaw, Santana, Thames, Sogard, etc) most are big regression candidates for me personally.

I agree with that. I'm speaking organizationally. They had 7 guys in MLB's top 100 at the end of last season with others who could pop this year (Lutz, Peralta, Bickford, Gatewood. etc.).

 

And they've got a pretty good group of young players on the major league roster. Knebel (26) was a really good closer for them. He's under control thru 2021. Nelson (28) and Davies (24) along with Hader (23) if he joins the rotation as rumored form a solid group of young controllable starters. Travis Shaw (27) is under control thru 2021. Santana (25), Arcia, (23) and Brinson (23) form a nice core of young, very good players with Villar (26) a strong bounce back candidate.

 

If the Cards trade away a good chunk of their farm for 2 years of Ozuna and 1 of Machado, I'd say the Brewers would be in a better long term position. No real threat to the Cubs as things stand now, though, just "gaining" on them and improving as an organization.

 

I don't have time to find the post where I tried to say this more eloquently, but they basically have to thread the needle on all those guys to make the advancement they need to make to get to the Cubs' level. They aren't at risk of falling off to 60 wins or anything, especially with the Pirates waning, but they're basically hoping to have enough young guys be sustainably okay so they can be the 2017 Cardinals and win 85 games. They don't have the stars unless someone like Hader or Brinson way overshoots their likely outcome, and even then they have to make up for Nelson's star turn last year because his arm exploded.

I agree, TT. I don't even think threading the needle would get them to where the Cubs are. The original comment was about them improving and being in a better long term position than the Cards if they emptied their farm for 2 years of Ozuna and 1 of Machado.

[toonsterwu]

Looking at the numbers I’m not seeing much difference between Alcantara and Alzolay other than Alcantara had a nominal MLB stint this past year. So if Passan is right and Yelich is available and Nightengale is being his usual buffoon self even if the asking price is “substantially higher” Happ and Monty seem to be substantially higher than a version of Alzolay the Cardinals just traded as their main piece

 

I'm sticking with my Cease comparison from earlier this thread. Likely reliever.

 

I think Cease has a better chance of being a starter. I'm a bit stunned that the Marlins got so little. It sounds like Sandy Alcantara and Magnerius Sierra are the top two guys. If so ... that's a very ... disappointing return in a seller's market.

 

Now ... I will give Gary Denbo credit. He seems like he did a great job with the Yankees, and he knows what he's searching for. I can see Alcantara being a starter. Alcantara will never need top control ... he just needs capable control and to let his fastball run ... akin to Chris Archer coming up the ranks in some respects.

[David]

That's a good trade for the Cardinals. It's not going to matter. But a good trade, nonetheless.

 

reminds me of

[CubinNY]

Jeets is not a good GM. Great trade for the horsefeathers-birds