Gigantic Willy Style - The Willson Contreras Thread

[Sammy Sofa]

[Banedon]

[Sammy Sofa]

[Ding Dong Johnson]

[Sammy Sofa]

I think Contreras is on board with this idea...

[17 Seconds]

trade him before his offense falls off a cliff again. if there's any truth at all to the pitch framing stuff, then hes a bad fit for this staff.

[UMFan83]

trade him before his offense falls off a cliff again. if there's any truth at all to the pitch framing stuff, then hes a bad fit for this staff.

 

Yeah I’m sure those 300 PAs last year are more indicative of his ability than the other 1200 PAs where he was a very good hitter.

[17 Seconds]

trade him before his offense falls off a cliff again. if there's any truth at all to the pitch framing stuff, then hes a bad fit for this staff.

 

Yeah I’m sure those 300 PAs last year are more indicative of his ability than the other 1200 PAs where he was a very good hitter.

 

i meant until it falls back to where it did, or worse. i like willson. this isn't a me bitching about the cubs thing. i'm saying that if he falls back to his .830 ops self, his value is kind of unspectacular, but i get the sense that his value around the league would be more than that. i just think he's more of an .800-850 ops guy with bad overall defense. add in the wear and tear of catching, and i think it's a great opportunity to sell high. also, his biggest flaw (framing) is likely to hurt us more than most other teams, since we have such poor control. i think i actually make a post during the offseason about trading him if he bounced back offensively. it's not reactionary.

[Sammy Sofa]

I believe in his beautiful bat; salvage that goodness by plugging him in to LF.

[UMFan83]

I believe in his beautiful bat; salvage that goodness by plugging him in to LF.

 

Yeah seriously, our OF is desperate for guys who can put up an .830-.850 OPS

[Sammy Sofa]

I believe in his beautiful bat; salvage that goodness by plugging him in to LF.

 

Yeah seriously, our OF is desperate for guys who can put up an .830-.850 OPS

 

Sadly liked.

[BigSlick]

This is the situation: We could probably find a decent defensive catcher who would probably struggle to put up a .700 OPS

 

Putting Contreras in LF denies you a good bat at Catcher, but we may not have anyone else that can put up .800+ OPS in the OF anyway. Is the difference in value made up there? Ideally you have *two* people who can put up an .850 OPS in both positions.

 

I tend to think you keep him there and do your best to find a good bat for the outfield. I don't think his receiving is disastrous or really the main cause of struggles in our pitching staff, but I don't know how to read the numbers nor how dependable they are.

[UMFan83]

This is the situation: We could probably find a decent defensive catcher who would probably struggle to put up a .700 OPS

 

Putting Contreras in LF denies you a good bat at Catcher, but we may not have anyone else that can put up .800+ OPS in the OF anyway. Is the difference in value made up there? Ideally you have *two* people who can put up an .850 OPS in both positions.

 

I tend to think you keep him there and do your best to find a good bat for the outfield. I don't think his receiving is disastrous or really the main cause of struggles in our pitching staff, but I don't know how to read the numbers nor how dependable they are.

 

It's certainly easier to find a good bat for the OF than at C. That said, would a .740 OPS catcher with elite pitch framing be more valuable than a .900 guy who causes actual physical pain when watching him try to frame pitches? Also how does controlling the run game play into that which I believe Contreras is supposed to be really solid at?

[17 Seconds]

I believe in his beautiful bat; salvage that goodness by plugging him in to LF.

 

Yeah seriously, our OF is desperate for guys who can put up an .830-.850 OPS

 

if he's capable of playing lf, i would love that over trading him. i just assumed they don't see it as a real option since they kind of abandoned it.

[imb]

1.) contreras was butt in lf when he got regular playing time there

2.) the only outfield position he could maybe even remotely pass at is LF which also happens to be the only outfield position we have a semi-competent bat in already

 

i mean i can't believe some of the takes in here. we should trade him for prospects? So we can start Caratini in a season where we're trying to contend. Jesus christ almighty.

[JudasIscariotTheBird]

1.) contreras was butt in lf when he got regular playing time there

I demand small sample size receipts!

[Sammy Sofa]

1.) contreras was butt in lf when he got regular playing time there

2.) the only outfield position he could maybe even remotely pass at is LF which also happens to be the only outfield position we have a semi-competent bat in already

 

i mean i can't believe some of the takes in here. we should trade him for prospects? So we can start Caratini in a season where we're trying to contend. Jesus christ almighty.

 

To be fair, I think the "they should trade Willson Contreras" take is just one dude.

 

And to be further fair, that's a very debatable assessment of Schwarber at this point.

[ConstableRabbit]

1.) contreras was butt in lf when he got regular playing time there

2.) the only outfield position he could maybe even remotely pass at is LF which also happens to be the only outfield position we have a semi-competent bat in already

 

i mean i can't believe some of the takes in here. we should trade him for prospects? So we can start Caratini in a season where we're trying to contend. Jesus christ almighty.

 

To be fair, I think the "they should trade Willson Contreras" take is just one dude.

 

And to be further fair, that's a very debatable assessment of Schwarber at this point.

He's a 26 year old who put up a 115 wRC+ and 3.2 fWAR in 137 games. The start to this season hasn't been great but I'm willing to call that semi-competent.

[Sammy Sofa]

An fWAR bolstered significantly by what increasingly is looking like an unsustainable level of defensive value, and now sandwiched by two seasons of butt. The dude has had 1500 PA at this point, and we're already more than a third of the way through this season; at what point does it go from, "Schwarber is still young/coming back from injury/adjusting to new position/whatever/etc." to, "maybe Kyle Schwarber just isn't that good?"

[ConstableRabbit]

An fWAR bolstered significantly by what increasingly is looking like an unsustainable level of defensive value, and now sandwiched by two seasons of butt. The dude has had 1500 PA at this point, and we're already more than a third of the way through this season; at what point does it go from, "Schwarber is still young/coming back from injury/adjusting to new position/whatever/etc." to, "maybe Kyle Schwarber just isn't that good?"

What kind of fWAR do you think he's going to put up over the next few seasons?

[Sammy Sofa]

Probably around 2 fWAR a season (more likely at or under), at best.

[We Got The Whole 9]

We need to hire Jim Thome or Mo Vaughn as a special hitting instructor to Schwarber. He has huge oppo power but doesn't utilize it often enough at all. He could be sitting on these low and away pitches and destroying them but he rarely even wants to offer at them.

 

Also I'd like to see him try to crowd the plate. I think I mentioned that before so I apologize if I'm repeating myself.

[Sammy Sofa]

We need to hire Jim Thome or Mo Vaughn as a special hitting instructor to Schwarber. He has huge oppo power but doesn't utilize it often enough at all. He could be sitting on these low and away pitches and destroying them but he rarely even wants to offer at them.

 

Also I'd like to see him try to crowd the plate. I think I mentioned that before so I apologize if I'm repeating myself.

 

It's been brought up here before, but he's the weird/unfortunate type of player who sees the ball really well, but is also too patient for his own good.

[cl smooth]

every horsefeathering time i read the title of this thread:

 

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[squally1313]

An fWAR bolstered significantly by what increasingly is looking like an unsustainable level of defensive value, and now sandwiched by two seasons of butt. The dude has had 1500 PA at this point, and we're already more than a third of the way through this season; at what point does it go from, "Schwarber is still young/coming back from injury/adjusting to new position/whatever/etc." to, "maybe Kyle Schwarber just isn't that good?"

What kind of fWAR do you think he's going to put up over the next few seasons?

I mean, as much as it pains me to admit it, it's hard to really disagree. Outside of the top defenders/prime defensive spots, it's probably foolish to rely on positive defensive value, especially for someone with his clear limitations. He's made plenty of strides in the area, but he's never going to be fast and he's going to get turned around 4-5 times a year.

 

That being said, from what I can tell, the only real difference offensively being 2018 and 2019 is that he's down 25 points in BABIP. Walk rate is down 1%, K rate barely up, and his batted ball profile shows a few more line drives, a few more hard hit balls, and significantly less soft hit balls (10.9% to 16.8%). Basically I don't think he's too far off from that 115 wRC. Whether a 115 with slightly negative defensive value is enough is a different question, but I think he's still an above average hitter.