Starting Pitching candidates

[Agony and Ivy]

That would be my ideal scenario. I'd rather bet on Verlander bouncing back (since his stuff hasn't diminished at all) while holding onto Eloy, over trading Eloy for Gray. Maybe Verlander's terrible numbers in his age 34 season should scare me more, but man his stuff is still electric.

 

Not sure it would take Eloy to get Sonny either.

[17 Seconds]

the jays are getting close to falling out of the race. what is a realistic package for stroman?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

maybe we could take on Montero with Stroman and lower the cost a bit

[davell]

They've got Estrada as a rental and Happ with just a year left, I think if you really want Stroman, its going to cost Eloy, one of Schwarber, Happ, or Javy, plus more. I don't think they're in need of moving him.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

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So scratch verlander off the wish list.

[Tryptamine]

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So scratch verlander off the wish list.

 

That's almost hilariously delusional. If they don't want to trade him just say so and be honest.

[Post Count Padder]

What would it take to get Folty and Susuki (plus a reliever maybe?) from Atlanta? I've liked Folty for some time and Suzuki has good defensive numbers, no? Plus he's not useless with a bat.

[Cubswin11]

This would likely be more of a Monty type trade, but if we can take away from the pre-draft comments about the FO finding something they like in pitchers and with who they took it appears to be the curveball.... are there any guys who may be struggling a bit/former good prospects that are ranking high on curveball effectiveness but otherwise not doing well and/or in a bad role?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

This would likely be more of a Monty type trade, but if we can take away from the pre-draft comments about the FO finding something they like in pitchers and with who they took it appears to be the curveball.... are there any guys who may be struggling a bit/former good prospects that are ranking high on curveball effectiveness but otherwise not doing well and/or in a bad role?

 

Interesting idea. I did some Fangraphs filtering(SP, 60+ IP, 10+% curveballs, 3.5+ ERA or FIP to remove already good players) and also trimmed some teams that won't be selling pitchers and here's the names that jump out to me:

 

Quintana

Verlander

Alex Cobb

Martin Perez

Bundy

 

The problem with the Montgomery trade is he wasn't starting in MLB at the time of the deal, so filtering in a way that you don't have to comb through every person to get a few dozen IP is difficult.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

How about Jesse Hahn as a target?

 

Was pretty good until a recent bad stretch that could be explained by dead arm which led to him being demoted to AAA and possibly permanently losing his spot in the rotation to Paul Blackburn (how amusing if Blackburn outproduces Vogelbach and the Mariners didn't even keep Blackburn): https://www.google.com/amp/www.sfgate.com/athletics/amp/A-s-demote-Jesse-Hahn-want-longer-look-at-Paul-11262551.php

 

According to Fangraphs, he's thrown 17.7% curves this year. Is under team control till 2021.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

My level of comfort in going the Montgomery/Arrieta route of buying low on someone who isn't currently pitching at an above average level is proportionate to my comfort in Arrieta returning to even 2016 levels. I'm not very confident Arrieta is going to return to 2016 levels.

[Cubswin11]

Having some time to look now after being on my phone earlier, Foltynewicz ranks 12th in wCB/C on Fangraphs (of qualified SP) and he throws it 11% of the time. I know he's come up before and has brought up mixed feelings but I guess he could shoot up the interest list if the FO indeed did find or likes something about the curveball.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

My level of comfort in going the Montgomery/Arrieta route of buying low on someone who isn't currently pitching at an above average level is proportionate to my comfort in Arrieta returning to even 2016 levels. I'm not very confident Arrieta is going to return to 2016 levels.

 

An acquisition at the Montgomery level shouldn't be the only deadline acquisition, just like Montgomery wasn't the biggest acquisition last season.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

My level of comfort in going the Montgomery/Arrieta route of buying low on someone who isn't currently pitching at an above average level is proportionate to my comfort in Arrieta returning to even 2016 levels. I'm not very confident Arrieta is going to return to 2016 levels.

 

An acquisition at the Montgomery level shouldn't be the only deadline acquisition, just like Montgomery wasn't the biggest acquisition last season.

 

I certainly wouldn't complain, and the details are where it matters. If Oakland wants to trade Hahn for Vosler then sure. Given the farm system not being in terrific shape(made "worse" by Happ unexpectedly having a necessary MLB role), the high cost of acquiring an established SP, and the relative stability in the pen, I'm not going to hold out hope for both.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Come on......[looks up Toronto's GM]...Shapiro, blow it up. You know you want to.

[Cubswin11]

Eloy and Cease all day for Stroman (would like to get an extra lottery or 2 with him or some bullpen filler br that's not necessary)

[David]

i like stroman a lot, but i feel like i'm missing something where you guys hold him in quite this much regard, since he only strikes out like 7ish guys per 9 ip.

[Splendid Splinter]

Eloy and Cease+++ all day for Stroman (and maybe a lottery guy)

 

This is more like it. I still do it.

[raw]

i like stroman a lot, but i feel like i'm missing something where you guys hold him in quite this much regard, since he only strikes out like 7ish guys per 9 ip.

 

Healthy arm...right age, not a FA until 2020...TOR playoff experience at young ages...all his pitches either generate one or more of popups, whiffs, or groundballs...throws strikes...logs innings...his sinker and slider are elite pitches and none of the 5-6 pitches he throws sucks...groundball machine with power stuff...Extremely marketable player...He basically seems to me to be exactly the right pitcher at exactly the right time, both for him and the Cubs.

 

I've said I would do something crazy like drink a large blackberry and mint chip milkshake with 2% for the Cubs to land Stroman and absolutely mean it.

 

Stroman's about as perfect a fit as could be imagined for the Cubs, and vice versa (as you stated). The Cubs need a pitcher this year, that's essentially....much better than Lackey for the stretch run where they need to makeup some games. The Cubs need a pitcher next year to slot high in the rotation after Lester and Hendricks. The Cubs need a pitcher long-term for the TOR that won't be in his mid-to-late 30s and soon to be overpaid. To get all those things in 1 pitcher doesn't get any more ideal.

 

The Cubs could go get a Gausman or Hahn, but who knows how good or healthy they would be down the stretch or where they project to slot in future rotations. And either of these guys would still probably force the Cubs hand in spending on a FA SP again this offseason. The Cubs could go get Verlander, but he'll also be in his mid-to-late 30s and getting paid a ton of money until he retires. And he would still not end (not that it ever really does end) their pursuit for young controllable pitching.

 

Stroman and Archer are the only names that could possibly be out there that check all the boxes. Easily better than Lackey now and potentially part of a playoff rotation. Strong 2nd or really good 3rd starter in 2018. Long-term #1 or #2 starter once Lester starts looking like 2017 Lackey. I love Eloy as a prospect, and those are the only 2 guys I'd give him up for. Stroman to me, is even a better bet than Archer long-term.

[davell]

Yeah, I'd easily give up Eloy, Cease, plus one or two of the Candelario/Caratini/Zagunis bunch for Stroman.

[imb]

I guess Stroman is the point where it would be acceptable to give up Eloy.

[Sammy Sofa]

At this point, if they don't end up with Stroman or Archer I will be very sad.

[David]

At this point, if they don't end up with Stroman or Archer I will be very sad.

 

I'd be good with Gray too

 

 

Would be excited about Gausman but wouldn't feel as great about it as a move for this year

[raw]

The thing about Toronto is they are sooo old on their 25-man roster. Both catchers now at least 33 years old. Entire over 30 IF. The mediocre Kevin Pillar and Devon Travis; and the terrible Ryan Goins are their only sub 30-year old offensive players.

 

The Jays could just as soon trade guys like Donaldson, Liriano, Happ, Estrada, and even Tulo before they get to one of their few young actual talents in Stroman.

 

They also could really use some ML ready talent in return. I wonder if they wouldn't be more interested in a package led by Happ, Schwarber or Baez instead of Eloy Jimenez. Not sure the Cubs would trade any of those guys.

[Tim]

My master plan for continued world domination:

 

summer 2017:

1) trade Eloy, Cease, Zagunis for Stroman;

2) drop Lackey

3) Rotation is Lester/Stroman/Hendricks/Arrieta/Monty; Pen is fine as-is; offense is fine with a fixed schwarbs

 

winter 2017/18:

1) Tender Arrieta a qualifying offer and thank him for his service when he signs elsewhere

2) somehow convince Otani to come here (rotation now set with Lester/Stroman/Hendricks/Otani/Monty)

3) Add relief help to replace Davis/Uehara/Duensing

4) Find another Jay - every other spot is filled with players under control

 

Winter 2018/19:

1) Convince Heyward to opt out or accept bench role.

2) Empty bank for Harper

3) Probably need to add a SP for someone and relievers, but who cares

4) Offense is Harper/Bryant/Rizzo/Schwarbs/Happ/Contreras/Russell/Zobrist-Baez!