NBA Playoffs (bulls also)

[17 Seconds]

lebron is just untouchable in the early rounds, it's unbeliebable

[Cubswin11]

lebron is just untouchable in the early rounds, it's unbeliebable

He's great and would have gotten to The Finals more years than not, but the East since he made "The Decision" has been ass by and large.

[17 Seconds]

lebron is just untouchable in the early rounds, it's unbeliebable

He's great and would have gotten to The Finals more years than not, but the East since he made "The Decision" has been ass by and large.

 

i'm not impressed with his teams always advancing through those rounds, i'm impressed with just how easy it's been

[Cubswin11]

lebron is just untouchable in the early rounds, it's unbeliebable

He's great and would have gotten to The Finals more years than not, but the East since he made "The Decision" has been ass by and large.

 

i'm not impressed with his teams always advancing through those rounds, i'm impressed with just how easy it's been

It's "easy" because it's been against pretty bad competition mostly, though. I'd have to do some real digging to really stand behind this, but the 2nd best team Lebron has had to get through in the East in recent memory probably wasn't even as good as the 4th or 5th best team in the West in most years.

[17 Seconds]

yes, but even though we aren't exactly talking about baseball here, you'd still expect to see more individual losses scattered in there

[SouthSideRyan]

He's great and would have gotten to The Finals more years than not, but the East since he made "The Decision" has been ass by and large.

 

i'm not impressed with his teams always advancing through those rounds, i'm impressed with just how easy it's been

It's "easy" because it's been against pretty bad competition mostly, though. I'd have to do some real digging to really stand behind this, but the 2nd best team Lebron has had to get through in the East in recent memory probably wasn't even as good as the 4th or 5th best team in the West in most years.

 

I mean c'mon. 72-20 in Eastern Conference Playoff Series. 1 seeds in the West took 10 losses in the first round alone in that timeframe.

[Cubswin11]

 

i'm not impressed with his teams always advancing through those rounds, i'm impressed with just how easy it's been

It's "easy" because it's been against pretty bad competition mostly, though. I'd have to do some real digging to really stand behind this, but the 2nd best team Lebron has had to get through in the East in recent memory probably wasn't even as good as the 4th or 5th best team in the West in most years.

 

I mean c'mon. 72-20 in Eastern Conference Playoff Series. 1 seeds in the West took 10 losses in the first round alone in that timeframe.

It's a incredible record, I'm not saying it isn't and Lebron would have come out on top pretty much regardless. I'm just pointing out that the level of competition to get through in the East has just been pretty meh over the stretch. Who's the best East team he's had to go through? Those Pacers teams for 1-3 years with PG, Hibbert, West and Granger or the Celtics teams that were already on the downside?

[SouthSideRyan]

It's "easy" because it's been against pretty bad competition mostly, though. I'd have to do some real digging to really stand behind this, but the 2nd best team Lebron has had to get through in the East in recent memory probably wasn't even as good as the 4th or 5th best team in the West in most years.

 

I mean c'mon. 72-20 in Eastern Conference Playoff Series. 1 seeds in the West took 10 losses in the first round alone in that timeframe.

It's a incredible record, I'm not saying it isn't and Lebron would have come out on top pretty much regardless. I'm just pointing out that the level of competition to get through in the East has just been pretty meh over the stretch. Who's the best East team he's had to go through? Those Pacers teams for 1-3 years with PG, Hibbert, West and Granger or the Celtics teams that were already on the downside?

 

I was told it was the Bulls.

[Andy]

 

I mean c'mon. 72-20 in Eastern Conference Playoff Series. 1 seeds in the West took 10 losses in the first round alone in that timeframe.

It's a incredible record, I'm not saying it isn't and Lebron would have come out on top pretty much regardless. I'm just pointing out that the level of competition to get through in the East has just been pretty meh over the stretch. Who's the best East team he's had to go through? Those Pacers teams for 1-3 years with PG, Hibbert, West and Granger or the Celtics teams that were already on the downside?

 

I was told it was the Bulls.

The thing is, pathetically enough, it probably was. Either the '11 Bulls or the '12 "we're a few months away from Brooklyn inexplicably giving us their next 5 drafts for a pair of post-prime guys" Celtics.

[SouthSideRyan]

It's a incredible record, I'm not saying it isn't and Lebron would have come out on top pretty much regardless. I'm just pointing out that the level of competition to get through in the East has just been pretty meh over the stretch. Who's the best East team he's had to go through? Those Pacers teams for 1-3 years with PG, Hibbert, West and Granger or the Celtics teams that were already on the downside?

 

I was told it was the Bulls.

The thing is, pathetically enough, it probably was. Either the '11 Bulls or the '12 "we're a few months away from Brooklyn inexplicably giving us their next 5 drafts for a pair of post-prime guys" Celtics.

 

Real answer:

 

The '10 Celtics were fresh off Doc Rivers costing them Game 7 of the NBA Finals.

 

Alternative:

 

Just imagine if the '11 Bulls had the PG whose injury single-handedly cost them the playoffs this year. Imagine having a stud like that

[NonProfitCow]

Realest answer - LeBron is basketball jesus

[Andy]

 

I was told it was the Bulls.

The thing is, pathetically enough, it probably was. Either the '11 Bulls or the '12 "we're a few months away from Brooklyn inexplicably giving us their next 5 drafts for a pair of post-prime guys" Celtics.

 

Real answer:

 

The '10 Celtics were fresh off Doc Rivers costing them Game 7 of the NBA Finals.

 

Alternative:

 

Just imagine if the '11 Bulls had the PG whose injury single-handedly cost them the playoffs this year. Imagine having a stud like that

The '10 Celtics were before The Decision, which is what I thought the time frame was per 17S' post, but it seems we jumped past that.

[SouthSideRyan]

The thing is, pathetically enough, it probably was. Either the '11 Bulls or the '12 "we're a few months away from Brooklyn inexplicably giving us their next 5 drafts for a pair of post-prime guys" Celtics.

 

Real answer:

 

The '10 Celtics were fresh off Doc Rivers costing them Game 7 of the NBA Finals.

 

Alternative:

 

Just imagine if the '11 Bulls had the PG whose injury single-handedly cost them the playoffs this year. Imagine having a stud like that

The '10 Celtics were before The Decision, which is what I thought the time frame was per 17S' post, but it seems we jumped past that.

 

Whoops, the dual years of NBA seasons messed with my brain. The '09-'10 Celtics lost in the Finals, the '10-'11 Celtics were LBJ's first season in Miami.

[Derwood]

Need to edit the thread title thanks

[Transmogrified Tiger]

fixed

[davell]

[bcl412]

The more I think about stuff and think about how good LeBron is the more I think he's going to be the best ever when he's done.

[Ryne Ween]

The more I think about stuff and think about how good LeBron is the more I think he's going to be the best ever when he's done.

 

Lebron would have to sustain this run for a while and win some more titles to go down as better than Jordan. jordan won 6 final mvps and took two years off in the middle.

[bcl412]

I have no idea why but alternate uniforms in the playoffs bother me.

[bcl412]

The more I think about stuff and think about how good LeBron is the more I think he's going to be the best ever when he's done.

 

Lebron would have to sustain this run for a while and win some more titles to go down as better than Jordan. jordan won 6 final mvps and took two years off in the middle.

 

My thought process is that he's done some good stuff with some not good teams. His numbers are going to be insane when he retires and I think he'll win more titles. I think the Cavs title last year was more impressive than anything Jordan did and the way he played in that series was insane. If they find a way to beat the Warriors this year, he takes a major step in catching MJ.

[Rex Buckingham]

I think the eras that MJ and LBJ played in are too different to really compare them that much though. The changes in handchecking rules, the expansion of the league (leading to a somewhat diluted talent pool) and changes in the game (importance of the 3-pt shot especially) just make it all so different. Heck, even team construction has changed dramatically. I can't look at it objectively because I grew up rooting for MJ, but I think he's still holding on for now.

[CubColtPacer]

I think the eras that MJ and LBJ played in are too different to really compare them that much though. The changes in handchecking rules, the expansion of the league (leading to a somewhat diluted talent pool) and changes in the game (importance of the 3-pt shot especially) just make it all so different. Heck, even team construction has changed dramatically. I can't look at it objectively because I grew up rooting for MJ, but I think he's still holding on for now.

 

Expansion would be a point against Jordan and for LeBron. When Jordan won his first three titles, the league had expanded by four teams in the previous five years, and then expanded by two more before Jordan's second threepeat. LeBron has only had one team come into the league his entire career and that was in his second season as a pro. And the availability of international talent has grown rapidly over the last 20 years.

 

As you said, it can be hard to compare. Handchecking was a detriment for Jordan for example, but he also benefited greatly from the illegal defense rule.

 

Their paths into the league are also going to affect things. Because LeBron came right out of high school (and of course Jordan's injury and retirements), he has already passed Jordan in career minutes, and he's only 32 and still dominant. By the end he could end up blowing Jordan away in the one factor of how long he played at a high level. How much does that one factor matter when evaluating someone's career? That's always one of the hardest decisions to make.

[Andy]

It's probably completely unfair given Jordan never had to really worry about his supporting cast (then again, of course no good player was going to come to Cleveland pre-Decision without assurances LeBron was going to stay), but LeBron essentially picking out the best situation for him for most of this decade seems like it should at least be a slight mark against him.

 

To be honest though, I'm really tired of having GOAT debates in every sport. I'm starting to fall into the camp of let's just let great athletes be great without constantly having to calibrate our all-time lists.

[SouthSideRyan]

It's probably completely unfair given Jordan never had to really worry about his supporting cast (then again, of course no good player was going to come to Cleveland pre-Decision without assurances LeBron was going to stay), but LeBron essentially picking out the best situation for him for most of this decade seems like it should at least be a slight mark against him.

 

To be honest though, I'm really tired of having GOAT debates in every sport. I'm starting to fall into the camp of let's just let great athletes be great without constantly having to calibrate our all-time lists.

 

The supporting cast nonsense should have been put to bed when LBJ took a starting lineup of himself, Ilgauskas, Drew Gooden, Boobie Gibson, and Sasha Pavlovic to the NBA Finals. It really should've been put to bed when he went 2-3 in the FInals with support from Timofey Mozgov, Tristan Thompson, Dellavedova, and Iman Shumpert. And then he and Kyrie Irving beat the best team in NBA history last year.

 

But, oooh that jerk didn't want to play with Jamario Moon as his #2.

[Andy]

It's probably completely unfair given Jordan never had to really worry about his supporting cast (then again, of course no good player was going to come to Cleveland pre-Decision without assurances LeBron was going to stay), but LeBron essentially picking out the best situation for him for most of this decade seems like it should at least be a slight mark against him.

 

To be honest though, I'm really tired of having GOAT debates in every sport. I'm starting to fall into the camp of let's just let great athletes be great without constantly having to calibrate our all-time lists.

 

The supporting cast nonsense should have been put to bed when LBJ took a starting lineup of himself, Ilgauskas, Drew Gooden, Boobie Gibson, and Sasha Pavlovic to the NBA Finals. It really should've been put to bed when he went 2-3 in the FInals with support from Timofey Mozgov, Tristan Thompson, Dellavedova, and Iman Shumpert. And then he and Kyrie Irving beat the best team in NBA history last year.

 

But, oooh that jerk didn't want to play with Jamario Moon as his #2.

Did you just see 'supporting cast' and ignore the rest of my post? I never said anything against anything that he did on the court.