Cubs offseason thread

[Clem Fandango]

That's not depth, that's a lottery ticket

 

That's a week old with losing numbers that you found on the street

[davell]

Theo sends a heartfelt apology that our 7th-10th starters aren't going to be aces.

[Tryptamine]

Theo sends a heartfelt apology that our 7th-10th starters aren't going to be aces.

 

They don't have to be aces, a person who I was convinced could throw 100IP of sub 5.00ERA ball would be nice.

[davell]

Theo sends a heartfelt apology that our 7th-10th starters aren't going to be aces.

 

They don't have to be aces, a person who I was convinced could throw 100IP of sub 5.00ERA ball would be nice.

 

Those guys get guaranteed major league deals. They also may want to actually head into the year slotted in as the 5th, or at least truly in competition for a rotation spot coming out of spring. They don't get that option here. We'll sign a guy to a ML deal still and that bumps Zastryzny down to 7. My guess is he moves to 8 before we get to spring.

 

I'll be happy if we sign Kelly. We've probably got as much info on him than anyone and I'd be hopeful we see some tweaks that can turn him into a contributor of some sort.

[Clem Fandango]

Theo sends a heartfelt apology that our 7th-10th starters aren't going to be aces.

 

I don't care about who he signs as long as they aren't garbage pitchers like Casey Kelly.

[Cubswin11]

Theo sends a heartfelt apology that our 7th-10th starters aren't going to be aces.

This is rather hyperbolic, of course it's ridiculous to expect that out of the 6-10 starters. But it's not ridiculous to expect to have 1-3 guys who could be replacement level-ish for ~5 starts if needed and we currently don't have that and our 5th starter might not even be that.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Our 6th and 7th starters last year were Wood and Cahill. Both had good 2015's but only as relievers, so we aren't really talking about a super high bar. Especially if the front office believes at all in Zastryzny's MLB performance, whatshisname the Rule 5 pick, etc.

[Tim]

Our 6th and 7th starters last year were Wood and Cahill. Both had good 2015's but only as relievers, so we aren't really talking about a super high bar. Especially if the front office believes at all in Zastryzny's MLB performance, whatshisname the Rule 5 pick, etc.

Warren was really the 6th starter out of camp, right?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Our 6th and 7th starters last year were Wood and Cahill. Both had good 2015's but only as relievers, so we aren't really talking about a super high bar. Especially if the front office believes at all in Zastryzny's MLB performance, whatshisname the Rule 5 pick, etc.

Warren was really the 6th starter out of camp, right?

 

Yes, forgot about him. Similar logic applies, although Warren was better as a starter.

 

On the topic of rotation depth, Texas is hoping Ross can be good to go by the stretch run. He was not an answer to any questions. http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/mlb/texas-rangers/article127532574.html

[UMFan83]

[tweet]

[/tweet]

[davell]

I wouldn't mind bringing in a lefty, but we have some serious depth in the pen.....

 

Wade Davis, Hector Rondon, Pedro Strop, Carl Edwards Jr, Koji Uehara, Justin Grimm, Brian Duensing, Caleb Smith-Current Group?

 

Felix Pena, Jose Rosario, Corey Black, Fernando Rodriguez, Jim Henderson, Dylan Floro, David Rollins, Jack Leathersich, Pierce Johnson

 

Plus, you've conceivably got Montgomery and Zastryzny, if you find a few starters somehow.

[toonsterwu]

If Jose Rosario's stuff is anywhere near as good, next year, as some of the reports that have come out about him, I'd be a bit surprised if he can't find a way to sneak onto the late inning bullpen mix. If that slider is steady ... and he's hitting triple digits ...

 

Hard pressed for me to buy Corey Black and Pierce Johnson as "depth" right now, at least, until they prove themselves consistent enough.

 

Henderson's a nice veteran pickup. Wouldn't be surprised if he worked his way into the bullpen mix.

 

There is quantity. A part of me wonders if somewhere in the back of their minds, they aren't trying to eat up enough guys so that they could perhaps ponder a pen for depth move type of trade. There's enough teams with pen concerns ... still, seems unlikely they'd get that much value for any of our guys that are more plausible trade pieces. That said, if, in the back of their mind, they are thinking that adding another depth SP arm or two to the upper levels isn't the worst idea, perhaps a spare pen arm could be moved and replaced with ease. After all, if they have to call on Jim Henderson to replace, say, Justin Grimm, okay.

 

I think the ideal pen scenario late in 2017 is something like Wade Davis closing, with a key youngster in that 7th/8th inning role (whether it be Rosario or Carl Edwards Jr., or a surprise), along with another veteran. Then, heading into 2018, you can contemplate transitioning to young closer.

 

Thinking about it a bit more, it's clear that they are trying to build a deep pen to compensate for likely SP concerns ... but still, most managers have set patterns with pen arms, and while Maddon is a bit more unconventional than most, I'm very curious how all this shakes out. I'm not real sure where Rondon and Strop fit in my mental picture of how I hope the Cubs pen looks to start the year.

[Named After Maddux]

If Jose Rosario's stuff is anywhere near as good, next year, as some of the reports that have come out about him, I'd be a bit surprised if he can't find a way to sneak onto the late inning bullpen mix. If that slider is steady ... and he's hitting triple digits ...

 

Hard pressed for me to buy Corey Black and Pierce Johnson as "depth" right now, at least, until they prove themselves consistent enough.

 

Henderson's a nice veteran pickup. Wouldn't be surprised if he worked his way into the bullpen mix.

 

There is quantity. A part of me wonders if somewhere in the back of their minds, they aren't trying to eat up enough guys so that they could perhaps ponder a pen for depth move type of trade. There's enough teams with pen concerns ... still, seems unlikely they'd get that much value for any of our guys that are more plausible trade pieces. That said, if, in the back of their mind, they are thinking that adding another depth SP arm or two to the upper levels isn't the worst idea, perhaps a spare pen arm could be moved and replaced with ease. After all, if they have to call on Jim Henderson to replace, say, Justin Grimm, okay.

 

I think the ideal pen scenario late in 2017 is something like Wade Davis closing, with a key youngster in that 7th/8th inning role (whether it be Rosario or Carl Edwards Jr., or a surprise), along with another veteran. Then, heading into 2018, you can contemplate transitioning to young closer.

 

Thinking about it a bit more, it's clear that they are trying to build a deep pen to compensate for likely SP concerns ... but still, most managers have set patterns with pen arms, and while Maddon is a bit more unconventional than most, I'm very curious how all this shakes out. I'm not real sure where Rondon and Strop fit in my mental picture of how I hope the Cubs pen looks to start the year.

 

Rockies are an interesting trade partner. There's been a lot of discussion about them adding more bullpen arms and they're obviously trying to compete now. Plus, based on their recent decision-making, it's an good opportunity to have our FO run circles around theirs.

Kyle Freeland and maybe Jeff Hoffman could be available. Both are fairly well regarded, however both have lost a bit of luster. Freeland is more likely and its split on whether he's in the pen or rotation long-term. That being said, he has a deceptive arm angle and a four pitches so there's something to work with.

[Bear Cub]

Has anyone heard of the interest level in Travis Wood? I havent heard of many teams knocking his door down. I would love to see him back next year.

[BigbadB]

With the amount of veteran bullpen arms already in the fold, is the idea of stretching Carl Edwards Jr. back out to be a starter completely out of the question? Obviously, it's probably not a good sign that he hasn't started in 2 years, but am curious what the reason was behind converting him.

[Sammy Sofa]

He's teensy and it would probably break him.

[raw]

If Jose Rosario's stuff is anywhere near as good, next year, as some of the reports that have come out about him, I'd be a bit surprised if he can't find a way to sneak onto the late inning bullpen mix. If that slider is steady ... and he's hitting triple digits ...

 

Hard pressed for me to buy Corey Black and Pierce Johnson as "depth" right now, at least, until they prove themselves consistent enough.

 

Henderson's a nice veteran pickup. Wouldn't be surprised if he worked his way into the bullpen mix.

 

There is quantity. A part of me wonders if somewhere in the back of their minds, they aren't trying to eat up enough guys so that they could perhaps ponder a pen for depth move type of trade. There's enough teams with pen concerns ... still, seems unlikely they'd get that much value for any of our guys that are more plausible trade pieces. That said, if, in the back of their mind, they are thinking that adding another depth SP arm or two to the upper levels isn't the worst idea, perhaps a spare pen arm could be moved and replaced with ease. After all, if they have to call on Jim Henderson to replace, say, Justin Grimm, okay.

 

I think the ideal pen scenario late in 2017 is something like Wade Davis closing, with a key youngster in that 7th/8th inning role (whether it be Rosario or Carl Edwards Jr., or a surprise), along with another veteran. Then, heading into 2018, you can contemplate transitioning to young closer.

 

Thinking about it a bit more, it's clear that they are trying to build a deep pen to compensate for likely SP concerns ... but still, most managers have set patterns with pen arms, and while Maddon is a bit more unconventional than most, I'm very curious how all this shakes out. I'm not real sure where Rondon and Strop fit in my mental picture of how I hope the Cubs pen looks to start the year.

 

Rockies are an interesting trade partner. There's been a lot of discussion about them adding more bullpen arms and they're obviously trying to compete now. Plus, based on their recent decision-making, it's an good opportunity to have our FO run circles around theirs.

Kyle Freeland and maybe Jeff Hoffman could be available. Both are fairly well regarded, however both have lost a bit of luster. Freeland is more likely and its split on whether he's in the pen or rotation long-term. That being said, he has a deceptive arm angle and a four pitches so there's something to work with.

 

Yeah, I proposed a Rondon, Szczur and a prospect for Hoffman and we take Parra off their hands, but that was before Jay. But I think something still could be done there. Uehara makes Rondon potentially available. And there's still some decent RPs available to replace him. I don't know that either Hoffman or Freeland are going to make that rotation.

[raw]

If Jose Rosario's stuff is anywhere near as good, next year, as some of the reports that have come out about him, I'd be a bit surprised if he can't find a way to sneak onto the late inning bullpen mix. If that slider is steady ... and he's hitting triple digits ...

 

Hard pressed for me to buy Corey Black and Pierce Johnson as "depth" right now, at least, until they prove themselves consistent enough.

 

Henderson's a nice veteran pickup. Wouldn't be surprised if he worked his way into the bullpen mix.

 

There is quantity. A part of me wonders if somewhere in the back of their minds, they aren't trying to eat up enough guys so that they could perhaps ponder a pen for depth move type of trade. There's enough teams with pen concerns ... still, seems unlikely they'd get that much value for any of our guys that are more plausible trade pieces. That said, if, in the back of their mind, they are thinking that adding another depth SP arm or two to the upper levels isn't the worst idea, perhaps a spare pen arm could be moved and replaced with ease. After all, if they have to call on Jim Henderson to replace, say, Justin Grimm, okay.

 

I think the ideal pen scenario late in 2017 is something like Wade Davis closing, with a key youngster in that 7th/8th inning role (whether it be Rosario or Carl Edwards Jr., or a surprise), along with another veteran. Then, heading into 2018, you can contemplate transitioning to young closer.

 

Thinking about it a bit more, it's clear that they are trying to build a deep pen to compensate for likely SP concerns ... but still, most managers have set patterns with pen arms, and while Maddon is a bit more unconventional than most, I'm very curious how all this shakes out. I'm not real sure where Rondon and Strop fit in my mental picture of how I hope the Cubs pen looks to start the year.

 

Rockies are an interesting trade partner. There's been a lot of discussion about them adding more bullpen arms and they're obviously trying to compete now. Plus, based on their recent decision-making, it's an good opportunity to have our FO run circles around theirs.

Kyle Freeland and maybe Jeff Hoffman could be available. Both are fairly well regarded, however both have lost a bit of luster. Freeland is more likely and its split on whether he's in the pen or rotation long-term. That being said, he has a deceptive arm angle and a four pitches so there's something to work with.

 

Yeah, I proposed a Rondon, Szczur and a prospect for Hoffman and we take Parra off their hands, but that was before Jay. But I think something still could be done there. Uehara makes Rondon potentially available. And there's still some decent RPs available to replace him. I don't know that either Hoffman or Freeland are going to make that rotation.

[toonsterwu]

I think Freeland could likely be had, and he'd be a nice guy to add, for a reasonable price as depth. I think that's the type of guy that could perhaps be had for a pen arm - an end of the rotation guy who could be stashed in AAA.

 

I don't see the Rockies moving Hoffman in general, but if they do consider it, I imagine they are going to want an arm and a leg. There's still enough there to see him as more than a mid-rotation arm, and he's probably been pushed a bit. While Bridich has made some odd decisions, he's steadily built up a fairly deep and strong system.

[toonsterwu]

I'm still hoping for Teheran plus one of Newcomb/Allard/Muller/Wentz with the Braves. I lean Newcomb and Muller most. Newcomb because he has the tools to start or be a fireman kind of reliever with the heathy arm and swing and miss stuff. Muller's my early sleeper of the Allard/Wentz/Muller trio because he's also healthy and was really dominant during his debut (14 hits in 27 IP with 40 Ks). Allard could be an elite guy in a year or two but is also a pitcher with some injury history.

 

What would motivate Atlanta to make this sort of move? I'm not even sure Teheran alone is something that we could go after (I mean, in this climate, Teheran might not a stronger return than some think), and all the young arms are intriguing enough that I doubt the Braves move any of them at this stage unless it's a no-brainer, knock your socks off deal.

[Bull]

I'm still hoping for Teheran plus one of Newcomb/Allard/Muller/Wentz with the Braves. I lean Newcomb and Muller most. Newcomb because he has the tools to start or be a fireman kind of reliever with the heathy arm and swing and miss stuff. Muller's my early sleeper of the Allard/Wentz/Muller trio because he's also healthy and was really dominant during his debut (14 hits in 27 IP with 40 Ks). Allard could be an elite guy in a year or two but is also a pitcher with some injury history.

 

What would motivate Atlanta to make this sort of move? I'm not even sure Teheran alone is something that we could go after (I mean, in this climate, Teheran might not a stronger return than some think), and all the young arms are intriguing enough that I doubt the Braves move any of them at this stage unless it's a no-brainer, knock your socks off deal.

 

- Bats for arms

- What's the in this climate...part mean?

That over the past few years young, cost-controlled, healthy arms seem to be at a premium, whereas just a few years ago the dearth of power hitters seemed to cause the opposite to be true?

[David]

youth is such a vastly overblown trait for pitching

 

they all blow up

[Bull]

youth is such a vastly overblown trait for pitching

 

they all blow up

 

 

Fair enough. I was just positing a guess at what toonster meant by "this climate"

[UMFan83]

[tweet]

[/tweet]

 

Hmm

[Tim]

Damn. Now the Cubs themselves are trolling me.

 

http://m.cubs.mlb.com/news/article/214190644/moises-alou-tops-cubs-free-agent-signing-list/