Minor League Musings

[Donzo]

1 hour ago, mul21 said:

Based on this injury (subscapularis) and how it functions in the shoulder, it's not out of the question to think surgery is on the horizon.  Now, if it's truly just the muscle and there's not tendon/ligament damage involved, then yeah, it's probably likely he can avoid going under the knife.  Unfortunately, based on how the rotator cuff works, I'm not real optimistic it's just muscular.

Yes, from keeping track of Cubs prospect, I've learned about the subscapularis. It's one of four muscles in the rotator cuff. It's the one that goes into the chest.

He's been on a throwing program, so it doesn't indicate tendon damage. The reason he's not projected to pitch again this season is because it ends (minors) in late September.

[Donzo]

1 hour ago, CubinNY said:

The tendon is slow to heal and even normal movement may cause problems—three months to heal and another three months before can throw a baseball at all. 

 

I think you're confused on his situation. This is the last update from the Cubs:

"The 22-year-old Horton was diagnosed with a right lat strain on June 4 and was shut down from throwing for roughly a month. Horton had been working through a throwing program in Arizona and getting closer to bullpen sessions. The Cubs initially planned on maintaining a conservative approach with the right-hander.

The expectation is he will get back to throwing, but given where the calendar is, returning to competitive action before the end of the Minor League season would be difficult."

[CubinNY]

So which is it? a lat strain and rotator cuff injury are not the same. On the last page, it said he had a subscapularis strain, which for a pitcher is almost as bad as it gets. If it's a lat strain that is completely different. 

[Donzo]

The Cubs and Hoyer have always called it a lat strain. The press called it a subscapularis strain when it was announced Horton had a setback.

Regardless, all reports have called it a setback in his throwing program and he is just going to run out of time to get back this season. Zero reports about a shutdown and potential surgery, a la Luke Little.

[JBears79]

He originally went on a the DL for a lat strain. During his rehab he had a setback which is where the subscapularis strain happened. Sucks but it is what it is. It's the reason we constantly need to be drafting and developing pitchers. 

Horton is probably the only pitcher we have that I would consider to have ace stuff and im still highly optimistic about his future here. But after him its not like pitching in the system is complete horsefeathers. 

Birdsell and Noland look like promising young arms for the future. Wiggins has been coming around. Wicks should be back soon. I like where our pitching depth is right now. Plus we will be supplementing it in free agency as well after Hendricks leaves.

Its probably smarter to just shut him down for the season and go into 2025 with a May or June debut on the horizon if AAA goes well to start the year. 

I hope its not surgery and i havent seen any indication of that. Seems just like a setback to me.

Edited August 12, 2024 by JBears79

[CubinNY]

2 minutes ago, Donzo said:

The Cubs and Hoyer have always called it a lat strain. The press called it a subscapularis strain when it was announced Horton had a setback.

Regardless, all reports have called it a setback in his throwing program and he is just going to run out of time to get back this season. Zero reports about a shutdown and potential surgery, a la Luke Little.

If he's not going to throw until after the season is over (could mean October or it could mean February or any time in between) then he's shut down. I suppose the Cubs bear no responsibility to give accurate information to the public, but this is not a minor setback in a rehab assignment. He hasn't pitched for months and when he tried he either re-injured himself or another injury was diagnosed. 

We will have to wait and see what happens in the offseason. 

[Donzo]

25 minutes ago, JBears79 said:

He originally went on a the DL for a lat strain. During his rehab he had a setback which is where the subscapularis strain happened. Sucks but it is what it is. It's the reason we constantly need to be drafting and developing pitchers.

OK, thanks.

From what I understand, his strain is to his side. It's part of the reason it was discribed a moderate strain. The subscapularis runs from the top of the shoulder down to the lat. If the subscapularis is actually strained on top of the shoulder, that gets more worriesome

[Donzo]

25 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

If he's not going to throw until after the season is over (could mean October or it could mean February or any time in between) then he's shut down. I suppose the Cubs bear no responsibility to give accurate information to the public, but this is not a minor setback in a rehab assignment. He hasn't pitched for months and when he tried he either re-injured himself or another injury was diagnosed. 

No, he has been throwing. As mentioned, he had a setback in "throwing" routine.

I was wondering if you had actual information or just jumping to conclusions. I'm no longer wondering, lol.

I can definitely understand your sentiment, but hopefully you're wrong.

[CubinNY]

6 minutes ago, Donzo said:

OK, thanks.

From what I understand, his strain is to his side. It's part of the reason it was discribed a moderate strain. The subscapularis runs from the top of the shoulder down to the lat. If the subscapularis is actually strained on top of the shoulder, that gets more worriesome

the muscles and tendons run from the biceps to the shoulder and the pectoralis major on the front side. The muscle is not close to the lats. 

[mul21]

49 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

the muscles and tendons run from the biceps to the shoulder and the pectoralis major on the front side. The muscle is not close to the lats. 

Right, but what he's saying is the original injury report was in fact a lat strain so until we get confirmation from the Cubs, the subscapularis report is just conjecture and that's a reasonable take here.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Meghan Montemurro (Trib) said he suffered a "moderate subscapularis strain in his right shoulder," during his rehab and throwing progression.

Tim Stebbins (MLB.com) only said Cade, "suffered a setback in his rehab from a right lat strain."

He was throwing in Mesa for a few weeks now (was spotted by some of the Arizona locals on Twitter) and reading the tea leaves and considering how spot-on Meghan's reporting is normally, I am assuming she's right and he suffered a new injury while throwing.

As a few folks have mentioned, with the minor league season ends in 6 weeks, we've run out of time for him to return this season. Because of that, we aren't going to hear about the severity of the injury for a while; either until we hear some reports of Cade throwing in the fall/winter or hear about the surgery.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Ángel Cepeda was the only Cub to make BA’s ACL Top 20:

 

[CaliforniaRaisin]

 

Quote

“At this point of the year and this point of his career,” Hawkins said, “it's not something that we wanted to push. We feel confident that he'll be ready to rock and roll come Spring Training, and certainly he’ll be part of our plans for next year. We just felt like pushing for this year wasn't the smartest thing.”

Quote

Hawkins explained that Horton (MLB Pipeline’s No. 2 Cubs prospect and No. 31 on the updated Top 100 list) was recently shut down from throwing due to experiencing pain in the “same area” (right subscapularis strain) that landed him on the injured list in late May.

That cuts off the runway for Horton, who was the Cubs’ top pick (No. 7 overall) in the 2022 MLB Draft, to return to game action during the season.

Asked if Horton might be able to make a push to return in time for the Arizona Fall League in October, Hawkins acknowledged that the idea is “a consideration.” The GM also noted that the player development group has to not only weigh the ramp-up period for Horton, but also the “down ramp” before the offseason.

“And you’ve got to think about ramping back up for Spring Training,” Hawkins said. “It’s not out of the question, but that’s part of the conversation.”

 

Quote

Horton moved his rehab to Arizona and resumed a throwing program, but never reached the point of getting back on a mound.

The prospect’s climb to the Cubs is now on hold until ‘25.

“We’ll try to build him up as best we can in Spring Training and you give him some chances there,” Hawkins said. “Almost every pitcher that’s been up in the big leagues has had setbacks like this. There’s plenty of opportunity for him to catch up.”

 

[CubinNY]

Brett reported a blurb from 670 that said that Caissie may be a September call up!

[CaliforniaRaisin]

The Cubs will have two games - at Dodgers on 3/13 and vs the Angels on 3/15.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Richard Gallardo had surgery:

 

[CubinNY]

The dude's hands are gargantuan. 

[Donzo]

I remember Gallardo being a "skinny" prospect when he was signed. He's not that now.

[CubinNY]

https://www.threads.net/@cubsondeck/post/C-_3YfxOp9g/?xmt=AQGzqdmvEChb45luEbb-vZErOZqjFQHaaatENLSgpQW8dg
 

Great slow mo of Shaw’s swing mechanics 

[We Got The Whole 9]

Shaw's closed stance and high leg kick raise a little concern with me. The stance possibly limits the pull-side power and the leg kick as we know leaves a lot of vulnerability to change of speed. Can't deny that they have not held him back thus far though. Now sitting at 600 pro PA and he's hit 300/382/512 with a .62 BBK, 25 HR 42 SB. 

 

Tantalizing stuff. And I absolutely love what he does when he recognizes a fastball away. MLB teams will probably attack him inside relentlessly, however, and he'll need to prove that he can punish the high-inside heat. 

Edited August 23, 2024 by We Got The Whole 9

[We Got The Whole 9]

Can we pry Gore away? He needs a change of scenery.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

17 hours ago, TomtheBombadil said:

Nats are calling up Dylan Crews…Coredation coming together? Joins Wood, Abrams, Garcia Jr, Ruiz, Gore, Parker, Herz, Yepez, Harvey…Upon this coredation will the Nats build maybe 3 riveting seasons of baseball before the players start coming after all the future 

Please just talk like a human being, the second sentence doesn't make any sense.  Also Harvey was traded to Kansas City at the deadline(and then was bad for 6 outings and got ILed)

[Donzo]

3 hours ago, Transmogrified Tiger said:

Please just talk like a human being,

WTF?

[Tryptamine]

1 hour ago, Donzo said:

WTF?

You're new, you'll get it soon.

[CaliforniaRaisin]