Hypothetical on Rebuild Going Back 3-4 years...Worth it in hindsight?

[Sammy Sofa]

After getting promoted, Castro proceded to hit .297/.335/.425 in his first 1900 MLB plate appearances. He was clearly ready for the majors, and it's a huge stretch to pin his subsequent inconsistency on how quickly he made it to MLB.

 

I'm not saying he wasn't technically; just that maybe he could have been even better, both offensively and defensively, if Hendry wasn't in panic-mode. Bringing him up then wasn't wrong, but it wasn't necessarily the best choice, and here we are.

 

yeah, obviously he was successful. i just think he could have been polished up more in the minors. he was only 20 for christ's sake.

 

Right. Bringing him up wasn't a bad move, but it speaks to the larger problem of Hendry putting the team in the situation where basically they had to bring Castro up barely age 20 to try and kickstart things. There's very, very few players I'd be cool with anyone bringing up that young.

[davell]

If anything, I'd say this regime messed Starlin up. Trying to change his approach helped him to his 2013 season anyway. I mean, I see why it was worth the shot to try and add another element to his game. But he truly seems to be a guy that's just never going to get to a league average walk rate. Considering he's had his share of lapses, maybe it's something they should have decided the risk/reward wasn't worth trying with him.

[Backtobanks]

Hendry left the system at a low enough talent level that competing in 2012 was impossible and 2013 an extreme longshot when combined with the payroll being cut.

 

That b2b is somehow equating this shortage to a literal lack of baseball players like the Cubs had a 17 man roster in 2011 is confusing if not surprising. If he's somehow remarking that Hendry deserves credit for leaving Theo with a handful of nickels because Theo was able to turn some of the nickels into dimes, well that also is confusing if not surprising.

 

In one sentence you're basically saying that Hendry left nothing in the system and the next you're saying that the "nothing (nickels)" left in the system magically turned into Rizzo, Edwards, Grimm, Ramierez, Hendricks, Villannueva, Wood, Castro, Baez, Russell, and Torreyes. I get the fact that most of you don't like Hendry, think he was a terrible GM, and consider Theo as God, but the facts are that a a good chunk of this team (and ml system) was acquired by trading players left from Hendry's regime. That doesn't mean I think he was a great GM or that Theo doesn't deserve credit, it just means those "nickels" apparently had some value in the eyes of other GMs.

[jersey cubs fan]

I don't think hendry was terrible, I know hendry was terrible.

[Sammy Sofa]

but the facts are that a a good chunk of this team (and ml system) was acquired by trading players left from Hendry's regime. That doesn't mean I think he was a great GM or that Theo doesn't deserve credit, it just means those "nickels" apparently had some value in the eyes of other GMs.

 

So what? What are still obsessed with making sure Hendry gets any kind of fair shake? He was a garbage person and he was terrible at his job. That players that he had acquired had to be traded for other players means absolutely nothing and only reflects poorly on him and his team-building abilities.

 

You're to Jim Hendry as ARCubsFan is to the Cardinals.

[Guest]

Hendry left the system at a low enough talent level that competing in 2012 was impossible and 2013 an extreme longshot when combined with the payroll being cut.

 

That b2b is somehow equating this shortage to a literal lack of baseball players like the Cubs had a 17 man roster in 2011 is confusing if not surprising. If he's somehow remarking that Hendry deserves credit for leaving Theo with a handful of nickels because Theo was able to turn some of the nickels into dimes, well that also is confusing if not surprising.

 

In one sentence you're basically saying that Hendry left nothing in the system and the next you're saying that the "nothing (nickels)" left in the system magically turned into Rizzo, Edwards, Grimm, Ramierez, Hendricks, Villannueva, Wood, Castro, Baez, Russell, and Torreyes. I get the fact that most of you don't like Hendry, think he was a terrible GM, and consider Theo as God, but the facts are that a a good chunk of this team (and ml system) was acquired by trading players left from Hendry's regime. That doesn't mean I think he was a great GM or that Theo doesn't deserve credit, it just means those "nickels" apparently had some value in the eyes of other GMs.

 

Let's make this extremely simple. If you want someone to blame for how terrible the Cubs were in 2012 or 2013, you'll want to blame Hendry for leaving an unacceptable amount of talent on the MLB roster and farm system. This does not mean there were literally no good baseball players in the Cubs organization, but rather that there were far too few at every level. You can also blame ownership for not maintaining/raising Hendry-era payrolls if that's your cup of tea. If you want someone to blame for the Cubs being bad in 2014, that's on Theo and Jed for only being very good instead of transcendent at their jobs. If you want to give credit for how good the Cubs are in 2015, there is 0.000% credit that belongs to Jim Hendry.

[KingCubsFan]

If anything, I'd say this regime messed Starlin up. Trying to change his approach helped him to his 2013 season anyway. I mean, I see why it was worth the shot to try and add another element to his game. But he truly seems to be a guy that's just never going to get to a league average walk rate. Considering he's had his share of lapses, maybe it's something they should have decided the risk/reward wasn't worth trying with him.

Something definitely clicked last year with him that made it seem like it was a worthwhile attempt. He was .001 off his career high in ISOp, career high BB% and career high LD% and FB%. But pitchers adjusted and clearly Starlin hasn't been able to. I was all ready to place the blame on the front office after 2013, but I think Castro's miserable season this year is all on him at this point.

[Backtobanks]

Hendry left the system at a low enough talent level that competing in 2012 was impossible and 2013 an extreme longshot when combined with the payroll being cut.

 

That b2b is somehow equating this shortage to a literal lack of baseball players like the Cubs had a 17 man roster in 2011 is confusing if not surprising. If he's somehow remarking that Hendry deserves credit for leaving Theo with a handful of nickels because Theo was able to turn some of the nickels into dimes, well that also is confusing if not surprising.

 

In one sentence you're basically saying that Hendry left nothing in the system and the next you're saying that the "nothing (nickels)" left in the system magically turned into Rizzo, Edwards, Grimm, Ramierez, Hendricks, Villannueva, Wood, Castro, Baez, Russell, and Torreyes. I get the fact that most of you don't like Hendry, think he was a terrible GM, and consider Theo as God, but the facts are that a a good chunk of this team (and ml system) was acquired by trading players left from Hendry's regime. That doesn't mean I think he was a great GM or that Theo doesn't deserve credit, it just means those "nickels" apparently had some value in the eyes of other GMs.

 

Let's make this extremely simple. If you want someone to blame for how terrible the Cubs were in 2012 or 2013, you'll want to blame Hendry for leaving an unacceptable amount of talent on the MLB roster and farm system. This does not mean there were literally no good baseball players in the Cubs organization, but rather that there were far too few at every level. You can also blame ownership for not maintaining/raising Hendry-era payrolls if that's your cup of tea. If you want someone to blame for the Cubs being bad in 2014, that's on Theo and Jed for only being very good instead of transcendent at their jobs. If you want to give credit for how good the Cubs are in 2015, there is 0.000% credit that belongs to Jim Hendry.

 

Last place in 2014 and 17 games out of 1st, but Theo and Jed were only being "very good". I'm glad you're open-minded, fair, and honest.

 

NL Central W L Pct. GB Home Road

St. Louis Cardinals 90 72 0.556 — 51–30 39–42

Pittsburgh Pirates 88 74 0.543 2 51–30 37–44

Milwaukee Brewers 82 80 0.506 8 42–39 40–41

Cincinnati Reds 76 86 0.469 14 44–37 32–49

Chicago Cubs 73 89 0.451 17 41–40 32–49

[Guest]

Oh wait they were 17 games out of first last year? Never mind then, that changes everything.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

It takes a special kind of ridiculous to blame the previous regime for how Castro ended up screwed up.

[Sammy Sofa]

It's the kind of creative, outside of the box-thinking that makes me the winner that I am.

 

I will blame literally everything that goes wrong with the Cubs on Hendry and make obnoxious fart noises with my mouth as I do it. The fan that choked to death in the bleachers eating one of Papa Ricketts' expensive bison sausages? Completely Hendry's fault.

 

*PPPPBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBTTTTTTTT*

[minnesotacubsfan]

Wow, it was only 17 games?

[Rob]

It takes a special kind of ridiculous to blame the previous regime for how Castro ended up screwed up.

 

Yeah.

 

The first awful season is definitely on Theo and Jed. Castro was trying to make the adjustments to be the more patient hitter that they wanted him to be and it just ruined him.

 

Thankfully he got that sorted out and came back strong last year.

 

No idea why his mechanics were so screwed up this season, or why it took so long to get them straightened out. At least he's performing pretty well right now. He might salvage some trade value this offseason if he keeps this up.

[minnesotacubsfan]

Why is this even a realistic topic? We have a team headed for the playoffs, its YOUNG, the "dead spots" SPRANG back to life, we have a CY [expletive] YOUNG candidate who is #2 in the rotation who just threw a no-no, and my [expletive] lord IT WAS ALL WORTH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sneakypower]

If you want someone to blame for the Cubs being bad in 2014, that's on Theo and Jed for only being very good instead of transcendent at their jobs. If you want to give credit for how good the Cubs are in 2015, there is 0.000% credit that belongs to Jim Hendry.

kind of disagree here...if Jim Hendry wasn't such a complete failure as GM, the Cubs wouldn't have had such an easy time tanking, earning Kris Bryant & co.

 

so i do give him some credit for putting us on that unavoidable path

[Aaron_Kennelly]

If you want someone to blame for the Cubs being bad in 2014, that's on Theo and Jed for only being very good instead of transcendent at their jobs. If you want to give credit for how good the Cubs are in 2015, there is 0.000% credit that belongs to Jim Hendry.

kind of disagree here...if Jim Hendry wasn't such a complete failure as GM, the Cubs wouldn't have had such an easy time tanking, earning Kris Bryant & co.

 

so i do give him some credit for putting us on that unavoidable path

 

Ah, yes, the phenomenon colloquially known as the "Jaxon Effect."

[Backtobanks]

Why is this even a realistic topic? We have a team headed for the playoffs, its YOUNG, the "dead spots" SPRANG back to life, we have a CY [expletive] YOUNG candidate who is #2 in the rotation who just threw a no-no, and my [expletive] lord IT WAS ALL WORTH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

You aren't paying attention if you think Arrieta is our #2 starter.

[Guancous]

Some perspective is in order:

 

1. Hendry helped create some of the most successful Cubs teams of our lifetimes.

 

2. He was good in the beginning and lost the plot at the end, as almost all GMs do. If things didn't end badly then they wouldn't end.

 

3. Theo/Hoyer are obviously light years better.

 

4. Ed Lynch. Now THAT was a terrible general manager.

[jersey cubs fan]

Some perspective is in order:

 

1. Hendry helped create some of the most successful Cubs teams of our lifetimes.

 

2. He was good in the beginning and lost the plot at the end, as almost all GMs do. If things didn't end badly then they wouldn't end.

 

3. Theo/Hoyer are obviously light years better.

 

4. Ed Lynch. Now THAT was a terrible general manager.

No, hendry sucked from day one.

[ScrubMD]

I've loved this rebuild. I never wanted them to try to be ok while they assembled this juggernaut. When Theo took over, we were on the path of the White Sox, Mariners, Brewers, etc. Awful teams that are awful, have been awful, and will continue to be awful for the foreseeable future. They have refused to let go and embrace their suck, and there's no hope in sight. For me, 2-3 lost years in exchange for a sustainable rock'n'roll dong army is a very good deal. And I personally think it's ridiculous to argue that we could have gotten to this point while also trying to compete the past 3 years, given the payroll.

[Guest]

Some perspective is in order:

 

1. Hendry helped create some of the most successful Cubs teams of our lifetimes.

 

2. He was good in the beginning and lost the plot at the end, as almost all GMs do. If things didn't end badly then they wouldn't end.

 

3. Theo/Hoyer are obviously light years better.

 

4. Ed Lynch. Now THAT was a terrible general manager.

No, hendry sucked from day one.

Exactly, Hendry is tangible proof of the Peter Principle.

[Guest]

Some perspective is in order:

 

1. Hendry helped create some of the most successful Cubs teams of our lifetimes.

 

2. He was good in the beginning and lost the plot at the end, as almost all GMs do. If things didn't end badly then they wouldn't end.

 

3. Theo/Hoyer are obviously light years better.

 

4. Ed Lynch. Now THAT was a terrible general manager.

No, hendry sucked from day one.

Exactly, Hendry is tangible proof of the Peter Principle.

 

that'd been the case with almost everyone in baseball upper management for decades until relatively recently

[Backtobanks]

I've loved this rebuild. I never wanted them to try to be ok while they assembled this juggernaut. When Theo took over, we were on the path of the White Sox, Mariners, Brewers, etc. Awful teams that are awful, have been awful, and will continue to be awful for the foreseeable future. They have refused to let go and embrace their suck, and there's no hope in sight. For me, 2-3 lost years in exchange for a sustainable rock'n'roll dong army is a very good deal. And I personally think it's ridiculous to argue that we could have gotten to this point while also trying to compete the past 3 years, given the payroll.

 

I'm happy with the way things are going, but I think we ought to hold off on calling the Cubs a juggernaut until they actually win the WS or put up great totals over a few years.

[ScrubMD]

I've loved this rebuild. I never wanted them to try to be ok while they assembled this juggernaut. When Theo took over, we were on the path of the White Sox, Mariners, Brewers, etc. Awful teams that are awful, have been awful, and will continue to be awful for the foreseeable future. They have refused to let go and embrace their suck, and there's no hope in sight. For me, 2-3 lost years in exchange for a sustainable rock'n'roll dong army is a very good deal. And I personally think it's ridiculous to argue that we could have gotten to this point while also trying to compete the past 3 years, given the payroll.

 

I'm happy with the way things are going, but I think we ought to hold off on calling the Cubs a juggernaut until they actually win the WS or put up great totals over a few years.

 

I will not hold off, thank you.

[Guest]

I've loved this rebuild. I never wanted them to try to be ok while they assembled this juggernaut. When Theo took over, we were on the path of the White Sox, Mariners, Brewers, etc. Awful teams that are awful, have been awful, and will continue to be awful for the foreseeable future. They have refused to let go and embrace their suck, and there's no hope in sight. For me, 2-3 lost years in exchange for a sustainable rock'n'roll dong army is a very good deal. And I personally think it's ridiculous to argue that we could have gotten to this point while also trying to compete the past 3 years, given the payroll.

 

i was always a little worried about what horribleness would ensue if the prospects tanked completely (we've seen it happen but we've never had this many prospects this good - not even 2001-2, Kyle, especially positionally) but after the fact i am more than fine with the tradeoff

Edited September 12, 2015 by David