Offseason Rumors & Transactions Thread

[Guest]

It's amazing to me that Baez struggled just like we all knew he would.

 

No he didn't. He struggled way, way worse than anyone feared.

 

Eh I expected awful and a lot of K's for a while. I didn't really have a particular degree in mind. Was hopeful that he'd show signs of life by the end of the season but it's not enough to get me anywhere near giving up on a massively talented 21 year old middle infielder. ride that stallion until it bucks you or it does whatever is a good outcome when riding a stallion.

[Deeg]

Not for the first time, I'm glad Epstein is running this team and not a bunch of guys on a message board.

[Sammy Sofa]

I really hope Epstein and co. aren't too in love with their prospects like a bunch of guys on a message board if the right deal can be made. None of these guys should be untouchable.

[XZero771679666304]

It's amazing to me that Baez struggled just like we all knew he would.

 

No he didn't. He struggled way, way worse than anyone feared.

 

Eh I expected awful and a lot of K's for a while. I didn't really have a particular degree in mind. Was hopeful that he'd show signs of life by the end of the season but it's not enough to get me anywhere near giving up on a massively talented 21 year old middle infielder. ride that stallion until it bucks you or it does whatever is a good outcome when riding a stallion.

 

Yeah, his 40%+ strikeout rate performance was on the "bad" end of my expectation spectrum, but it was something I definitely saw as a possibility. And I doubt I am alone in that. And while I am not particularly optimistic about his future, I'm far from ready to give up on him.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I could be wrong, but I don't remember anyone going higher than 40% on K-rate in the expectations thread.

 

Opinions should change with new information. You don't have to want to trade him, but it's a bit odd to not change your opinion at all with months of new data.

[Guest]

I could be wrong, but I don't remember anyone going higher than 40% on K-rate in the expectations thread.

 

Opinions should change with new information. You don't have to want to trade him, but it's a bit odd to not change your opinion at all with months of new data.

I'm open to trading him for the right player, but I do feel some people have a too-negative opinion due to recency bias.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I could be wrong, but I don't remember anyone going higher than 40% on K-rate in the expectations thread.

 

Opinions should change with new information. You don't have to want to trade him, but it's a bit odd to not change your opinion at all with months of new data.

I'm open to trading him for the right player, but I do feel some people have a too-negative opinion due to recency bias.

 

Quite possible.

 

And I'm letting the Jackson/Olt things get in the way, too. I'm tired of hearing "the whiffiness is problematic, but look at how great the slash line and talent are! I'm sure he'll be fine."

[Tryptamine]

Baez for Hamels is hardly "dumping" him.

 

And trading him for Hamels (which still makes zero sense to me) is hardly the only suggestion we've seen that involves getting rid of Baez. My puzzlement is more with the overall negativity towards him than with a specific deal in mind.

 

It's amazing to me that Baez struggled just like we all knew he would. We had how many discussions on this very board talking about how he would struggle at first and most agreed that it was good he could start in 2013 to start getting adjusted in a season that didn't matter.Yet here we are after he did what was expected and people are ready to throw him into any package. It just doesn't make sense.

 

Not any package; my still preferred avenue is using him the main part of a deal to land Stanton. I highly doubt he'd be moved for Hamels, but if it did happen I could be talked into it being a good move.

 

And I've said several times how I was expecting him to have shown at least some kind of significant improvement by then end of the year; he didn't. Yeah, the learning curve is going to be tougher at the highest level, but he was REALLY bad. I highly doubt anyone here was assuming he'd have been as horrendous as he was with little signs of improvement at the end of the season. Given the flaws in his game and given that they have Russell and Bryant waiting in the wings I wouldn't lose much sleep if they still sold high on him and got a great return.

 

I'd be 100% ok with moving him for Stanton, because he makes sense. An already expensive, previously injured and abused 31 year old pitcher does not.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'd be 100% ok with moving him for Stanton, because he makes sense. An already expensive, previously injured and abused 31 year old pitcher does not.

 

Hamels' injury and abuse history have been vastly overstated by people here; he's talked about like he's on the verge of shattering into pieces because of this last season.

 

Look, a Baez for Hamels deal isn't likely at all, but given the right tweaking I could be sold on a deal that involved those two things happening.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

If we had Stanton and someone tried to propose a deal involving Baez right now as the centerpiece, there'd be howls.

[Guest]

Trading Baez is fine, hedging the risk in trying to develop 3-4 prospects into an every day lineup is rational, and Baez is a high risk prospect.

 

Trading Baez for a 31 year old SP with no 5 win seasons to his name would make my eyes bleed.

[Sammy Sofa]

So go to BR instead and get your eyes checked out.

[Guest]

So go to BR instead and get your eyes checked out.

 

http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/7900000/2x06-Afternoon-Delight-Animated-gif-Michael-What-No-no-no-no-arrested-development-7915781-300-167.gif

[Sammy Sofa]

http://replygif.net/i/1125.gif

[SouthSideRyan]

Is anyone worried about Hamels' arm falling off (any more than the FA pitchers)?

 

If we would be looking at a trade for Hamels, I know he was total garbage last but would taking on Dom Brown mean taking on less money/giving up less in return? Change of scenery could help, he's much better against righties and could be a decent platoon. Just thinking out loud.

 

Why would we have to give up less by getting Brown? If the Phillies want to get rid of Brown they'll non-tender him.

[Backtobanks]

If we had Stanton and someone tried to propose a deal involving Baez right now as the centerpiece, there'd be howls.

 

Yeah, Baez would be the 3rd piece (maybe 2nd) in a trade for Stanton.

[TruffleShuffle]

which is why you obviously don't trade baez right now.

[Cubs Fan Dan]

I really hope Epstein and co. aren't too in love with their prospects like a bunch of guys on a message board if the right deal can be made. None of these guys should be untouchable.

 

Correction,

 

None of these guys should be untouchable for a younger talent like a Stanton.. For Hamels trading anyone above Alcantara does not make sense to me, not saying that Hamels is not work a blue chip prospect. However; the available amount of solid to top tier arms available would make it very difficult for the cubs to pull the trigger on that type of trade. I would rather throw money at 2 of the top 4

 

Shields

Lester

Max

Liriano.

[Guest]

One of those things is not like the others.

[Guest]

[expletive] Liriano. We'd get more value in a trade for Hamels.

[Guest]

I don't think Baez is tradable for the return some team would give the Cubs. There just too many questions about his game.

[jersey cubs fan]

I don't think Baez is tradable for the return some team would give the Cubs.

 

I don't know what that means.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I totally understand the rational arguments for not wanting to trade Baez, based heavily on the idea that he's going to bounce back. But I know that if they did trade him, I'd be relieved.

[Guest]

I totally understand the rational arguments for not wanting to trade Baez, based heavily on the idea that he's going to bounce back. But I know that if they did trade him, I'd be relieved.

 

I'm all in. I don't think his success is even close to essential to us becoming good (after all, how hard is it to find a decent player to plug in at 2B - or maybe CF - if he crashes) and I'm all about gambling on that upside because what he can become is such an exciting and fun player. dat swing and those dongs.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I totally understand the rational arguments for not wanting to trade Baez, based heavily on the idea that he's going to bounce back. But I know that if they did trade him, I'd be relieved.

 

I'm all in. I don't think his success is even close to essential to us becoming good (after all, how hard is it to find a decent player to plug in at 2B - or maybe CF - if he crashes) and I'm all about gambling on that upside because what he can become is such an exciting and fun player. dat swing and those dongs.

 

I don't want to win 86 games next year, finish two out of the Wild Card, and be sitting there looking at a -1.5 on Baez's Fangraphs page.