Minor League Discussion & Boxes 8-8-14

[SouthSideRyan]

Then I guess I don't understand why the FO is ok with not gaming service time with Soler and Baez, but look like they're going to with Bryant

Boras. And I've never seen anything definitive on Soler's contract, so it could be like Cespedes' contract. Given the length, it wouldn't surprise me.

 

Why would the fact that he has a 9 year deal make it more likely that he gets auto free agency before 6 years? Those clauses are incredibly rare and have only been for guys expected to start in the bigs.

[SouthSideRyan]

I'm almost positive service time does not factor into Soler's situation. He's only in the second year of a nine year contract, so unless there's a clause which allows him to renegotiate after a certain amount of time in the majors, the six years of service time will have elapsed before his contract does. I will concede a call up now would be rather easy; unlike Alcantara, Baez and ultimately Bryant, Soler is already on the 40 man roster. All the Cubs would have to do is send down a guy who still has options (I see you hiding, Junior). But waiting three more weeks isn't going to drastically change the fortunes of the big club.

 

He'll be here September 1st.

 

He's in the 3rd year of his contract.

[dfnowak]

Then I guess I don't understand why the FO is ok with not gaming service time with Soler and Baez, but look like they're going to with Bryant

Two words - Scott Boras

[sneakypower]

man, i love Jorge Soler at the next level

[imb]

man, i love Jorge Soler at the next level

 

His season so far has been unprecedented, even as we've watched Baez and Bryant. He's posted better power numbers than both, and walked as much as Bryant without any of the contact issues.

 

(What is his contact rate btw)

[Hairyducked Idiot]

man, i love Jorge Soler at the next level

 

His season so far has been unprecedented, even as we've watched Baez and Bryant. He's posted better power numbers than both, and walked as much as Bryant without any of the contact issues.

 

(What is his contact rate btw)

 

73.9% at Iowa, 71.2% for the year. Lower than his K-rate would imply, I think.

[Guest]

Why would you say $$$ for Soler?

 

Because unless there is some clause that has gone unreported for the last 2 years, Soler won't become a FA until after 2021 if they don't call him up until late April

 

I thought that was Bryant. Since Soler wasn't drafted why would he have something similar? I thought they could bring him up at any time.

 

Unless you have it explicitly written into your contract that you're non-tendered after the expiration of your major league contract(like Matsui and Cespedes) you still have to have 6 full years service time before becoming a FA

 

ETA: For example, Dayan Viciedo signed a major league contract for 4/10 through 2012. He remains under their control and went through arbitration this past offseaosn.

 

i don't know how in the world you have this pinned-down so well. did you take a class in this or something?

[Guest]

Then I guess I don't understand why the FO is ok with not gaming service time with Soler and Baez, but look like they're going to with Bryant

 

I'll preface that I don't really know, bringing up Baez was not something I really expected. If I have to guess though, I think it's because Soler and Bryant will make quicker adjustments. Getting through those adjustments was a stated reason for calling up Baez now, and with Soler's K/BB and Bryant being an engine of death, their adjustment projects to be far faster.

 

Of course, if that logic follows, then the odds aren't great of Soler coming up in September. I don't know how Soler's contract affects this though, but his lack of playing time is a convenient enough excuse either way.

[Vinestal]

Can Bryant start the season out of spring training on the big league club or is there a reason people have said late April specifically?

[Guest]

There's no difference in service time if he starts in MLB on opening day or if you call him up tomorrow. It's only when you call him up in late April that pushes the service time back a year.

[Vinestal]

There's no difference in service time if he starts in MLB on opening day or if you call him up tomorrow. It's only when you call him up in late April that pushes the service time back a year.

damned :banghead:

[jumbo]

Then I guess I don't understand why the FO is ok with not gaming service time with Soler and Baez, but look like they're going to with Bryant

Boras. And I've never seen anything definitive on Soler's contract, so it could be like Cespedes' contract. Given the length, it wouldn't surprise me.

 

Why would the fact that he has a 9 year deal make it more likely that he gets auto free agency before 6 years? Those clauses are incredibly rare and have only been for guys expected to start in the bigs.

 

If club control is actually a factor (I don't think it is) he would still be under club control for 2021 if he hadn't reached 6 years of service time by then, but at the time of signing the thought was that if that is the case, then he hasn't worked out as well as hoped. He's near this point now, where if he's held back until beyond the arb deadline, that could be the case, but only due to his injuries. I also believe that Soler has the right to opt into arbitration amounts rather than his year to year contract amount based on what he think's he'll make more through arbitration than through his contract.

 

So he could opt into arbitration for 2016 if he thinks he can make more than $2M in arbitration than his current deal.

 

 

From Cots:

 

Jorge Soler of

9 years/$30M (2012-20)

signed by Chicago Cubs as a free agent from Cuba 6/30/12

$6M signing bonus (half at signing, half by 1/13/13)

12:$1M, 13:$1M, 14:$2M, 15:$2M, 16:$3M, 17:$3M, 18:$4M, 19:$4M, 20:$4M

agent: Praver-Shapiro

ML service: 0.000

[SouthSideRyan]

Then I guess I don't understand why the FO is ok with not gaming service time with Soler and Baez, but look like they're going to with Bryant

Boras. And I've never seen anything definitive on Soler's contract, so it could be like Cespedes' contract. Given the length, it wouldn't surprise me.

 

Why would the fact that he has a 9 year deal make it more likely that he gets auto free agency before 6 years? Those clauses are incredibly rare and have only been for guys expected to start in the bigs.

 

If club control is actually a factor (I don't think it is) he would still be under club control for 2021 if he hadn't reached 6 years of service time by then, but at the time of signing the thought was that if that is the case, then he hasn't worked out as well as hoped. He's near this point now, where if he's held back until beyond the arb deadline, that could be the case, but only due to his injuries.

 

Agreed, and 2021 is the max control the Cubs could get out of him due to option years forcing him to be up for good by 2016.

 

I also believe that Soler has the right to opt into arbitration amounts rather than his year to year contract amount based on what he think's he'll make more through arbitration than through his contract.

 

So he could opt into arbitration for 2016 if he thinks he can make more than $2M in arbitration than his current deal.

 

I don't believe this is the case. Best of my knowledge, tt would be unprecedented in an MLB contract to grant arbitration rights to a player who is less than a Super 2. I'm not even sure how it would work since arbitration relies on comparables, and Soler's 1 year+ comparables would all be making the league minimum(or close to it)

[SouthSideRyan]

Why would you say $$$ for Soler?

 

Because unless there is some clause that has gone unreported for the last 2 years, Soler won't become a FA until after 2021 if they don't call him up until late April

 

I thought that was Bryant. Since Soler wasn't drafted why would he have something similar? I thought they could bring him up at any time.

 

Unless you have it explicitly written into your contract that you're non-tendered after the expiration of your major league contract(like Matsui and Cespedes) you still have to have 6 full years service time before becoming a FA

 

ETA: For example, Dayan Viciedo signed a major league contract for 4/10 through 2012. He remains under their control and went through arbitration this past offseaosn.

 

i don't know how in the world you have this pinned-down so well. did you take a class in this or something?

 

My butler did.

[Guest]

My butler did.

 

well, your butler learned the trade from his doorman.

[Janelle-Alexis]

I also believe that Soler has the right to opt into arbitration amounts rather than his year to year contract amount based on what he think's he'll make more through arbitration than through his contract.

 

So he could opt into arbitration for 2016 if he thinks he can make more than $2M in arbitration than his current deal.

 

He can opt for arbitration when he becomes arbitration eligible.

[mul21]

 

I also believe that Soler has the right to opt into arbitration amounts rather than his year to year contract amount based on what he think's he'll make more through arbitration than through his contract.

 

So he could opt into arbitration for 2016 if he thinks he can make more than $2M in arbitration than his current deal.

 

I don't believe this is the case. Best of my knowledge, tt would be unprecedented in an MLB contract to grant arbitration rights to a player who is less than a Super 2. I'm not even sure how it would work since arbitration relies on comparables, and Soler's 1 year+ comparables would all be making the league minimum(or close to it)

 

He can't just pick arbitration if he thinks his salary would be higher. He has to get to arbitration eligibility and at that point if he thinks he can get more in arbitration, he can file then. Basically, the contract was written the way it was to offer both sides some protection if he completely flopped. Soler gets a decent amount of guaranteed money, but the Cubs didn't have to fork over a big signing bonus because of PTR and they got long term control of him.

[jumbo]

 

I also believe that Soler has the right to opt into arbitration amounts rather than his year to year contract amount based on what he think's he'll make more through arbitration than through his contract.

 

So he could opt into arbitration for 2016 if he thinks he can make more than $2M in arbitration than his current deal.

 

I don't believe this is the case. Best of my knowledge, tt would be unprecedented in an MLB contract to grant arbitration rights to a player who is less than a Super 2. I'm not even sure how it would work since arbitration relies on comparables, and Soler's 1 year+ comparables would all be making the league minimum(or close to it)

 

He can't just pick arbitration if he thinks his salary would be higher. He has to get to arbitration eligibility and at that point if he thinks he can get more in arbitration, he can file then. Basically, the contract was written the way it was to offer both sides some protection if he completely flopped. Soler gets a decent amount of guaranteed money, but the Cubs didn't have to fork over a big signing bonus because of PTR and they got long term control of him.

 

You're both correct.