Minor League Discussion & Boxes 8-8-14

[SouthSideRyan]

So wait what's keeping Soler at AAA until September? Not enough ABs this year? Who cares.

 

I'd say $$$, but why is Baez up?

[Sammy Sofa]

Why would you say $$$ for Soler?

[Neuby]

I still think Theo has another two for one deal left in him to clear some room for the boys in Iowa.

 

Rivero/Rosscup-Villeneuva/fujikawa/Wright

 

Soler- Sweeney/Ruggiano/Coghlan

 

Beeler/Jokisch- Jackson

[SouthSideRyan]

Why would you say $$$ for Soler?

 

Because unless there is some clause that has gone unreported for the last 2 years, Soler won't become a FA until after 2021 if they don't call him up until late April

[Sammy Sofa]

Why would you say $$$ for Soler?

 

Because unless there is some clause that has gone unreported for the last 2 years, Soler won't become a FA until after 2021 if they don't call him up until late April

 

I thought that was Bryant. Since Soler wasn't drafted why would he have something similar? I thought they could bring him up at any time.

[SouthSideRyan]

Why would you say $$$ for Soler?

 

Because unless there is some clause that has gone unreported for the last 2 years, Soler won't become a FA until after 2021 if they don't call him up until late April

 

I thought that was Bryant. Since Soler wasn't drafted why would he have something similar? I thought they could bring him up at any time.

 

Unless you have it explicitly written into your contract that you're non-tendered after the expiration of your major league contract(like Matsui and Cespedes) you still have to have 6 full years service time before becoming a FA

 

ETA: For example, Dayan Viciedo signed a major league contract for 4/10 through 2012. He remains under their control and went through arbitration this past offseaosn.

[Sammy Sofa]

Bah. I hate that nonsense.

[JonJayCutler]

I still can't believe we got Russell, McKinney, and Straily just for Shark and Jason [expletive] Hammel.

 

Theo took Brad Pitt out behind the dirty, dirty woodshed.

[TruffleShuffle]

so just trying to make sense of soler, if he gets called up before next april then he becomes a free agent after his 2020 season (when he will still be making $4m), but if they call him up after next april, then they still control him for 2021?

 

i guess an extra year of team control is nice, but it's the last arbitration year, which tends to be close to what the guy would make in free agency. tim lincecum was offered $17m from the giants in arbitration a couple of years ago, and asked for $21.5m. they ended up settling on a 2 year deal worth $40.5m. the biggest benefit is probably not getting a cheap year from soler - because if he ends up being a monster, he'll make a truckload of money that last arbitration year - but rather than you get an extra year in his prime before he goes onto the open market and is looking for a long-term deal.

 

i guess i'm not sure that it's worth worrying about at this point.... IMO the benefit (giving him an extra two months to see major league pitching) outweighs the downside of getting to pay him $30m in 2021. that's assuming that the cubs are planning to contend for a playoff spot next year.

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

this extra year of control stuff makes me want to barf

[Guest]

This is going to be a long, long winter.

 

Luckily the Bears and Bulls both promise to be really entertaining.

[Guest]

Bah. I hate that nonsense.

 

It's not about $$$ anyway. He's getting the call in Sept.

[TruffleShuffle]

this extra year of control stuff makes me want to barf

 

yeah, it's an awful system and hopefully major league baseball addresses it in the next CBA. it makes for bad headlines when teams are holding down prospects like wil myers, desmond jennings, george springer, gregory polanco, kris bryant, etc, just to set their arbitration clocks back by a season. and not just the bad headlines; mlb should want exciting young players to be up playing in front of big crowds when they're ready for the top level.

[SouthSideRyan]

so just trying to make sense of soler, if he gets called up before next april then he becomes a free agent after his 2020 season (when he will still be making $4m), but if they call him up after next april, then they still control him for 2021?

 

 

It's pretty widely accepted that Soler can opt into arbitration once he's eligible. He'll only get paid at the level of his ML contract if he sucks. And you're obviously preaching to the choir about the value of keeping him down to gain an extra year. I guess I just don't understand why everyone assumes Soler will be up this year, but Bryant will be kept down to get the extra year.

[SouthSideRyan]

this extra year of control stuff makes me want to barf

 

yeah, it's an awful system and hopefully major league baseball addresses it in the next CBA. it makes for bad headlines when teams are holding down prospects like wil myers, desmond jennings, george springer, gregory polanco, kris bryant, etc, just to set their arbitration clocks back by a season. and not just the bad headlines; mlb should want exciting young players to be up playing in front of big crowds when they're ready for the top level.

 

But the MLBPA has no interest in losing veteran jobs sooner than they need to.

[TruffleShuffle]

so just trying to make sense of soler, if he gets called up before next april then he becomes a free agent after his 2020 season (when he will still be making $4m), but if they call him up after next april, then they still control him for 2021?

 

 

It's pretty widely accepted that Soler can opt into arbitration once he's eligible. He'll only get paid at the level of his ML contract if he sucks.

 

Really? Well that sucks. Not that he won't represent a huge bargain if he ends up good, but they don't even get to pay him dirt like most minor leaguers and pre-arby major leaguers make.

[treebird]

so just trying to make sense of soler, if he gets called up before next april then he becomes a free agent after his 2020 season (when he will still be making $4m), but if they call him up after next april, then they still control him for 2021?

 

 

It's pretty widely accepted that Soler can opt into arbitration once he's eligible. He'll only get paid at the level of his ML contract if he sucks. And you're obviously preaching to the choir about the value of keeping him down to gain an extra year. I guess I just don't understand why everyone assumes Soler will be up this year, but Bryant will be kept down to get the extra year.

 

one thing to keep in mind: i never would have guessed that patrick mooney was super plugged-in or anything, but he was talking about the fact that baez was probably coming up this year all through july. he's been saying the same thing about soler as a september call-up all along. i am confident it's going to happen based on that alone.

[Guest]

basically all the local guys are reporting (in a sourced fashion, not speculation) that he's probably coming up in/by sept at this point.

[SouthSideRyan]

Then I guess I don't understand why the FO is ok with not gaming service time with Soler and Baez, but look like they're going to with Bryant

[Guest]

Then I guess I don't understand why the FO is ok with not gaming service time with Soler and Baez, but look like they're going to with Bryant

 

maybe some combination of it still being his first full year of pro ball/boras/some things to sort out with holes in his swing (though obviously javy would seem to still have similar concerns)?

 

if there's one guy i'd bet against ever locking into a rizzo/castro type deal, it's him

[Guest]

is mckinney ahead of almora on anybody's lists yet?

 

Mine.

 

And where has this Soler been the last few years? He's been better than Bryant at both AA and AAA. Much smaller sample size, sure. But, he's up to 135 PA between the two levels and has shown no signs of slowing down. I have always felt he was a safe bet to contribute. But, now I am salivating over him.

 

I don't think it's crazy to have Soler ahead of Bryant.

[Guest]

Down in Mesa:

 

Jake Stinnett - 2 IP, 3 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 2 K

Alex Santana - 4 IP, 3 H, 1 ER, 1 BB, 6 K

Neil Ramirez - 0.2 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 1 K

 

Gleyber back in the lineup after missing 1.5 games.

[gscool89]

so just trying to make sense of soler, if he gets called up before next april then he becomes a free agent after his 2020 season (when he will still be making $4m), but if they call him up after next april, then they still control him for 2021?

 

 

It's pretty widely accepted that Soler can opt into arbitration once he's eligible. He'll only get paid at the level of his ML contract if he sucks. And you're obviously preaching to the choir about the value of keeping him down to gain an extra year. I guess I just don't understand why everyone assumes Soler will be up this year, but Bryant will be kept down to get the extra year.

 

one thing to keep in mind: i never would have guessed that patrick mooney was super plugged-in or anything, but he was talking about the fact that baez was probably coming up this year all through july. he's been saying the same thing about soler as a september call-up all along. i am confident it's going to happen based on that alone.

I'm confident that Patrick Mooney is the only local guy with actual sources in this city when it comes to the Cubs.

[KingCubsFan]

Then I guess I don't understand why the FO is ok with not gaming service time with Soler and Baez, but look like they're going to with Bryant

Boras. And I've never seen anything definitive on Soler's contract, so it could be like Cespedes' contract. Given the length, it wouldn't surprise me.

[Cubfanintheknow]

I'm almost positive service time does not factor into Soler's situation. He's only in the second year of a nine year contract, so unless there's a clause which allows him to renegotiate after a certain amount of time in the majors, the six years of service time will have elapsed before his contract does. I will concede a call up now would be rather easy; unlike Alcantara, Baez and ultimately Bryant, Soler is already on the 40 man roster. All the Cubs would have to do is send down a guy who still has options (I see you hiding, Junior). But waiting three more weeks isn't going to drastically change the fortunes of the big club.

 

He'll be here September 1st.