5/5 White Sox (Quintana) @ Cubs (Samardzija) 7:05 CDT,CSN TV

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Oh please, you've never been interested in logic, despite your insistence to the contrary. You ignore or twist everything positive into a negative, and then play both sides just so you can always claim to be right. The fact that other people can be morons too doesn't make your positions any more plausible, and you've long since ceased to be of any value to people that try to be reasonable about things.

 

Bukie being reasonable:

 

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/1338544/remain-calm-all-is-well-o.gif

[Guest]

And in this case he has an absolutely legitimate gripe and bukie is talking out his ass about who knows what.

No, I'm sick of the nonsense bitching and ad-hominem about how apparently easy it could have been to buy all the players and make the playoffs, when there hasn't been much of a realistic chance to do so. There's no way to force all the free agents to sign here, and there's no magic formula for making the playoffs from a dire situation except hitting on lightning in a bottle several times over, and that's no way to sustain long-term success.

 

The overall organization was in a shambles from drafting to development throughout the system, and propping the major league team up with FA just to please a few short-sighted people without overhauling the rest of the system wouldn't have been a good long term solution either. Despite how easily people hand-wave away the rest of the system as "easy when you're not trying at the major-league level", no teams' systems are improving like the Cubs' had. The more we learn about how terrible the system was prior to Epstein/Hoyer/McLeod, the more it makes sense to attack the problem in the way they did. The annoying financial issues with the Ricketts just contribute more to the necessity of maximizing ROI, and every move that the club has made has been in an effort to increase the overall value to the club, even if it doesn't make immediate sense to people who want quick solutions.

 

 

I'm still not happy with missing out on Darvish and Tanaka but I blame the financial situation more for that. If we had the capacity for a $150M+ payroll like we should, I think there's a much better chance we'd have them. Who knows what happened with Puig and if the rumor that someone offered more is true, but that is a disappointment too.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

The overall organization was in a shambles from drafting to development throughout the system, and propping the major league team up with FA just to please a few short-sighted people without overhauling the rest of the system wouldn't have been a good long term solution either. Despite how easily people hand-wave away the rest of the system as "easy when you're not trying at the major-league level", no teams' systems are improving like the Cubs' had. The more we learn about how terrible the system was prior to Epstein/Hoyer/McLeod, the more it makes sense to attack the problem in the way they did. The annoying financial issues with the Ricketts just contribute more to the necessity of maximizing ROI, and every move that the club has made has been in an effort to increase the overall value to the club, even if it doesn't make immediate sense to people who want quick solutions.

 

 

Completely horsepoop narrative. A total and irredeemable myth.

 

Every year that goes by, apologists have to pretend that the organizational talent and farm system was even worse than they pretended it was the year before.

 

No teams' systems are improving like the Cubs' have because no other team is dumping half a dozen MLB players for prospects every year.

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

god, I love bukie.

[bukie]

We suck donkey balls for the 3rd year in a row and are going to trade the best player on the team within 2 months, but I'm making up narratives.

 

And most of the 'good things' you're referring to are either sucking or injured in the minors right now. Forgive me for not jumping for joy.

You just made up two narratives here.

 

The Cubs are only trading Samardzija if the return provides more value going forward than Samardzija will. That's why he's still on the team now.

 

Castro, Rizzo and Castillo are currently at the major league level and producing. Samardzija is pitching lights out, Hammel isn't far behind, and Arrieta and Wood are contributing positively, and the pen is actually proving to be an asset right now (once the Veres issue sorted itself out). The outfield isn't performing, even in the platoons (and the best of the bunch is on the shelf for 3 weeks), which really drags down the offense in an annoyingly glaring way despite the success from the infield across the board (including Valbuena and Bonifacio, though Bonifacio is the most likely candidate to regress quickly and has).

[Hairyducked Idiot]

 

The Cubs are only trading Samardzija if the return provides more value going forward than Samardzija will. That's why he's still on the team now.

 

The front office has a very recent history of holding on to starting pitchers they intend to trade until the trade deadline to try to drive up the price. I'm surprised you don't remember.

 

Castro, Rizzo and Castillo are currently at the major league level and producing. Samardzija is pitching lights out, Hammel isn't far behind, and Arrieta and Wood are contributing positively, and the pen is actually proving to be an asset right now (once the Veres issue sorted itself out). The outfield isn't performing, even in the platoons (and the best of the bunch is on the shelf for 3 weeks), which really drags down the offense in an annoyingly glaring way despite the success from the infield across the board (including Valbuena and Bonifacio, though Bonifacio is the most likely candidate to regress quickly and has).

 

Sheesh. With all these great things happening and only one problem (the outfield), we must have a pretty good record.

[Andy]

We suck donkey balls for the 3rd year in a row and are going to trade the best player on the team within 2 months, but I'm making up narratives.

 

And most of the 'good things' you're referring to are either sucking or injured in the minors right now. Forgive me for not jumping for joy.

You just made up two narratives here.

 

The Cubs are only trading Samardzija if the return provides more value going forward than Samardzija will. That's why he's still on the team now.

 

Castro, Rizzo and Castillo are currently at the major league level and producing. Samardzija is pitching lights out, Hammel isn't far behind, and Arrieta and Wood are contributing positively, and the pen is actually proving to be an asset right now (once the Veres issue sorted itself out). The outfield isn't performing, even in the platoons (and the best of the bunch is on the shelf for 3 weeks), which really drags down the offense in an annoyingly glaring way despite the success from the infield across the board (including Valbuena and Bonifacio, though Bonifacio is the most likely candidate to regress quickly and has).

I'm aware Castro, Rizzo and Castillo are producing, and that's great and certainly a relief after the crap years the former two put up in 2013. But I can only be so thrilled about Shark and Hammel when both will be gone in August if Shark doesn't take a nap at the deadline the Cubs successfully get the ransom they'll ask for, a ransom that will be a maybe to amount to anything. And the 3 young guys are only going to be young for so long. At some point there need to be results, and I do not like betting on unknowns. Rational or not, I've been burned repeatedly hoping for unknowns to turn into knowns for this team and I can't help but wonder if this will burn me too.

[gscool89]

I think this regular season would be much more tolerable to this point if every prospect the Cubs are banking on wasn't dead or sucking. Outside of Kris Bryant, I'm really getting concerned. I know Javier Baez has had slow starts at pretty much every level he's been at but he's making Brett Jackson look like Ted Williams right now. Almora can't draw a walk to save his life. Soler may or may not be dead. CJ Edwards is dead.

 

I will say our bullpen is beginning to come together with the exception of Grimm tonight. But it's really concerning that the Cubs are just going to bank on these prospects to be the saviors. Feel like it's a really bad idea.

[ScrubMD]

Next year when we're competing for a playoff spot, Kyle and his annoying band of assholes aren't allowed to enjoy it.

[gscool89]

Next year when we're competing for a playoff spot, Kyle and his annoying band of [expletive] aren't allowed to enjoy it.

At this point, competing for 80 wins would be a win in my book.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Next year when we're competing for a playoff spot, Kyle and his annoying band of [expletive] aren't allowed to enjoy it.

 

lol. I'm going to come back and quote this in August 2015 when we're talking about the reverse standings for the 2016 draft and hoping for a top-3 pick.

 

Feel free to blame a wizard. It's what I'd do.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Hairyducked Idiot

[Guest]

Their pythagorean is 14-16 after tonight I believe.

 

Part of the problem with a depth approach is that you have to endure some bad performances for the cream to rise to the crop. That means we shouldn't be all that surprised at the current record, but that it's not all that predictive when several of the big reasons for that pythag gap(namely, Veras and Villanueva) have been addressed.

[ScrubMD]

Next year when we're competing for a playoff spot, Kyle and his annoying band of [expletive] aren't allowed to enjoy it.

 

lol. I'm going to come back and quote this in August 2015 when we're talking about the reverse standings for the 2016 draft and hoping for a top-3 pick.

 

Feel free to blame a wizard. It's what I'd do.

 

And I'm going to come to your house and stomp on your dick if you try to enjoy our playoff run next year.

[Andy]

Next year when we're competing for a playoff spot, Kyle and his annoying band of [expletive] aren't allowed to enjoy it.

Why is this the new thing now? The fact that the Rays got good in 2008 didn't make the previous 10 years of garbage baseball any less garbage-y. If the Astros get good with their merry band of prospects, it won't change the fact that they played [expletive] teams for like 5 years in a row on purpose. You can be aware of what the 'plan' is and still not like that you have to watch terrible teams for years waiting for it to hopefully work.

[gscool89]

Next year when we're competing for a playoff spot, Kyle and his annoying band of [expletive] aren't allowed to enjoy it.

Why is this the new thing now? The fact that the Rays got good in 2008 didn't make the previous 10 years of garbage baseball any less garbage-y. If the Astros get good with their merry band of prospects, it won't change the fact that they played [expletive] teams for like 5 years in a row on purpose. You can be aware of what the 'plan' is and still not like that you have to watch terrible teams for years waiting for it to hopefully work.

[expletive], if we turn into a big market Rays, the 10 years of losing would be completely worth it.

[Castros trade value]

Well, if the Cubs are really setting up for the future as they say they are, how is it that we have ZERO and I mean ZERO pitching talent in the minors that will replace what Shark and Wood bring?

 

Theo and Jed have my support through this season. If this team is not contending next year, or at least on the cusp of contending, they will start to feel the heat from the media and fans. It will not be pretty.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Their pythagorean is 14-16 after tonight I believe.

 

Part of the problem with a depth approach is that you have to endure some bad performances for the cream to rise to the crop. That means we shouldn't be all that surprised at the current record, but that it's not all that predictive when several of the big reasons for that pythag gap(namely, Veras and Villanueva) have been addressed.

 

So you're saying once we fix the really bad parts on the roster, we'll be not that bad?

 

Change the names, and that's the *exact* same thing we said in 2012 and 2013.

 

It won't work this time either. Because when we address Veras and Villanueva, other mediocrities will fall apart. Bonifacio or Hammel or Valbuena or all of them will stop producing (or BABIP might finally notice Welington Castillo), and some of our "hard-throwing but prone to bouts of wildness" bullpen guys will have a bad month, and then we'll say "Man, once we fix *those* parts, we wouldn't be that bad."

 

We've got a roster full of bad players. Some of those bad players are playing very bad, and some of them are playing kinda good. But you can't just say "Well, once we fix the ones playing very bad, we'll be OK," because the ones playing kinda good will also probably be bad in the future.

 

 

I could probably buy that we're a .467 true-talent team. That's a 76-win pace, minus the losses we've already incurred and before we gut it at the trade deadline.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Next year when we're competing for a playoff spot, Kyle and his annoying band of [expletive] aren't allowed to enjoy it.

 

lol. I'm going to come back and quote this in August 2015 when we're talking about the reverse standings for the 2016 draft and hoping for a top-3 pick.

 

Feel free to blame a wizard. It's what I'd do.

 

And I'm going to come to your house and stomp on your dick if you try to enjoy our playoff run next year.

 

No, you won't.

[bukie]

I'm still not happy with missing out on Darvish and Tanaka but I blame the financial situation more for that. If we had the capacity for a $150M+ payroll like we should, I think there's a much better chance we'd have them. Who knows what happened with Puig and if the rumor that someone offered more is true, but that is a disappointment too.

Basically, they hit on 1 of 5 primary international targets.

 

Of the 4 they missed:

- Darvish: Didn't get the high blind bid, the system was so stupid they changed it since.

- Cespedes: Prevailing rumor was the A's upped the Cubs' offer by granting him FA two years early, and he signed before the Cubs had a chance to counter. If true, nothing the Cubs could have done. If false, they missed out on one good year thus far, and he'll be available after next year if he's still worth signing.

- Puig: Apparently showed up well out of shape to the workouts, and nobody in their right mind would have signed him near to what the Dodgers offered. Rumor has it the Dodgers told him to sandbag the workouts so they could have him to themselves, but meh, given what happened at the workout there was no way to predict what he'd have done to this point. Practically the definition of lightning in a bottle.

- Tanaka: This one is the most disappointing, since he was the Cubs' primary target this offseason, and the blind bid system was removed to give every team a decent shot at him. The Yankees just reportedly went higher than anyone else, and whether the Cubs couldn't match or wouldn't match only causes a slight difference on who to be disappointed with. Sometimes the Yankees just go higher than everyone else. It is a thing that happens.

 

Let's not pretend the Cubs should have gone after Abreu either, and if we're looking for someone to blame for that, blame the NL not having a DH, since there's nowhere else for the guy to play for the team and add value.

 

Would the Cubs be better if they hit on half of the misses? Of course, the rotation would be 4-5 wins better if they had Darvish and Tanaka instead of, say, Jackson and Hammel. But the Cubs aren't the only team in the league, and especially aren't the only competent team in the league. 1 of 5 should be about what is expected, optimistically, from a team trying to take advantage of the international market. Still ahead of the league curve, there, I think.

[ScrubMD]

Next year when we're competing for a playoff spot, Kyle and his annoying band of [expletive] aren't allowed to enjoy it.

Why is this the new thing now? The fact that the Rays got good in 2008 didn't make the previous 10 years of garbage baseball any less garbage-y. If the Astros get good with their merry band of prospects, it won't change the fact that they played [expletive] teams for like 5 years in a row on purpose. You can be aware of what the 'plan' is and still not like that you have to watch terrible teams for years waiting for it to hopefully work.

[expletive], if we turn into a big market Rays, the 10 years of losing would be completely worth it.

 

And when that happens, Kyle and Andy and the rest have to go be fans of the Mariners.

[Guest]

Well, if the Cubs are really setting up for the future as they say they are, how is it that we have ZERO and I mean ZERO pitching talent in the minors that will replace what Shark and Wood bring?

 

Theo and Jed have my support through this season. If this team is not contending next year, or at least on the cusp of contending, they will start to feel the heat from the media and fans. It will not be pretty.

 

Wood? What?

 

As for the pitching, aside from what they'll get in Samardzija (and perhaps Hammel) trades and the 2014 draft, the Cubs have been attacking pitching in volume. There's a decent chance that some TOR arms arise from the volume approach they've taken with young arms in the draft (and to some extent, in trades) but it's not something that's necessarily going to happen quickly.

Edited May 6, 2014 by David

[SouthSideRyan]

no teams' systems are improving like the Cubs' had.

 

I don't think there's any ranking system that agrees with this.

[ScrubMD]

Next year when we're competing for a playoff spot, Kyle and his annoying band of [expletive] aren't allowed to enjoy it.

 

lol. I'm going to come back and quote this in August 2015 when we're talking about the reverse standings for the 2016 draft and hoping for a top-3 pick.

 

Feel free to blame a wizard. It's what I'd do.

 

And I'm going to come to your house and stomp on your dick if you try to enjoy our playoff run next year.

 

No, you won't.

 

You've called my bluff.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Next year when we're competing for a playoff spot, Kyle and his annoying band of [expletive] aren't allowed to enjoy it.

Why is this the new thing now? The fact that the Rays got good in 2008 didn't make the previous 10 years of garbage baseball any less garbage-y. If the Astros get good with their merry band of prospects, it won't change the fact that they played [expletive] teams for like 5 years in a row on purpose. You can be aware of what the 'plan' is and still not like that you have to watch terrible teams for years waiting for it to hopefully work.

[expletive], if we turn into a big market Rays, the 10 years of losing would be completely worth it.

 

As it stands now, the Rays are looking at 4 playoff seasons in 7 years. If we lose for 10 years to get that, that's not a great result.

 

None of these "built the right way" teams are making the playoffs every year. Not the Nationals, not the Royals, not the Pirates, not Rangers. They make it a decent chunk of the time, but they are just as caught up as everybody else in the big swirl of parity that is the modern MLB.

 

But we're choosing not to participate in that big sea of parity because we think we can deliver some huge run of sustained success that nobody besides the Yankees has really done in recent years, and even they are showing some cracks.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Hairyducked Idiot

[gscool89]

Next year when we're competing for a playoff spot, Kyle and his annoying band of [expletive] aren't allowed to enjoy it.

Why is this the new thing now? The fact that the Rays got good in 2008 didn't make the previous 10 years of garbage baseball any less garbage-y. If the Astros get good with their merry band of prospects, it won't change the fact that they played [expletive] teams for like 5 years in a row on purpose. You can be aware of what the 'plan' is and still not like that you have to watch terrible teams for years waiting for it to hopefully work.

[expletive], if we turn into a big market Rays, the 10 years of losing would be completely worth it.

 

As it stands now, the Rays are looking at 4 playoff seasons in 7 years. If we lose for 10 years to get that, that's not a great result.

They've also had to deal with the AL East at it's peak during those 7 years and working with a limited budget.