Who is the Cubs #19 Prospect?

[WrigleyField 22]

I'm okay with remaining optimistic about a average athlete 23 year old with enough arm strength and with an option year being able to learn and provide positive value at one of the easiest defensive positions.

[WrigleyField 22]

Lost in any of my defense of Vitters is also your outrageous stance that you apparently can't wait for him to be out of the organization. I get someone like raw having him at 25 as opposed to 16-20, but to completely dismiss him is crazy.

[jersey cubs fan]

Lost in any of my defense of Vitters is also your outrageous stance that you apparently can't wait for him to be out of the organization. I get someone like raw having him at 25 as opposed to 16-20, but to completely dismiss him is crazy.

 

Well, I was joking.

 

I am sure he will make a fine A ball coach one day.

[rawaction]

Lost in any of my defense of Vitters is also your outrageous stance that you apparently can't wait for him to be out of the organization. I get someone like raw having him at 25 as opposed to 16-20, but to completely dismiss him is crazy.

 

Can't dismiss anyone with the ML team being so bad. But that might be Vitters (and Olt's) saving grace at this point. They're on a bad team with a chance to get some ML ABs and they used to be able to hit at one point.

 

But yeah, if the Cubs had anyone else more sure of providing league average production at LF and 3B, then they should be dismissed completely. I think people are boosting both based on the fact they have a chance in this organization when they wouldn't for most other teams.

[WrigleyField 22]

I'm struggling to think of teams that would dismiss Olt or Vitters unless you're just taking the stance that teams with good players just don't like any prospects. I know I'm personally not basing their value on our major league roster.

[WrigleyField 22]

Lost in any of my defense of Vitters is also your outrageous stance that you apparently can't wait for him to be out of the organization. I get someone like raw having him at 25 as opposed to 16-20, but to completely dismiss him is crazy.

 

Well, I was joking.

 

I am sure he will make a fine A ball coach one day.

Wait is this a joke again? Can't tell. And are you joking about not wanting him in the organization but you're also joking about his value in being as a A ball coach or are you joking about his value in our system but you actually see his valid as a player and you're making another joke about his actual value being as a A ball coach?

 

I just can't keep up with your joke of a post.

[jersey cubs fan]

Lost in any of my defense of Vitters is also your outrageous stance that you apparently can't wait for him to be out of the organization. I get someone like raw having him at 25 as opposed to 16-20, but to completely dismiss him is crazy.

 

Well, I was joking.

 

I am sure he will make a fine A ball coach one day.

Wait is this a joke again? Can't tell. And are you joking about not wanting him in the organization but you're also joking about his value in being as a A ball coach or are you joking about his value in our system but you actually see his valid as a player and you're making another joke about his actual value being as a A ball coach?

 

I just can't keep up with your joke of a post.

 

I am serious about how ridiculous your claims were about Vitters and his clean slate and what any other team would have done about him. I am fairly dismissive of his value as a prospect anymore (actually never liked him but that is besides the point), but just joking about wanting him released.

 

I do, however, want the Cubs to be good at some point. And since that will take several years then I guess I could go back and say I am also serious about anxiously awaiting the time when he is out of the organization, because he will be gone by the time they are good. Although that will simply be a coincidence of timing.

[WrigleyField 22]

So where do you rank him?

[rawaction]

I'm struggling to think of teams that would dismiss Olt or Vitters unless you're just taking the stance that teams with good players just don't like any prospects. I know I'm personally not basing their value on our major league roster.

 

No, basically my point is. No team with good players would give them legitimate chances to be everyday or probably even platoon players. Which I believe would prevent people from thinking they are the 10th and 15th best prospect in a good minor league system. They both would be written off as 4A players in an organization with a good ML team. Those are not top 15 type talents.

[jersey cubs fan]

So where do you rank him?

 

I don't pretend to have a realistic ranking of schlubs this far down the chart. But I have not yet voted for him.

[SouthSideRyan]

I'm struggling to think of teams that would dismiss Olt or Vitters unless you're just taking the stance that teams with good players just don't like any prospects. I know I'm personally not basing their value on our major league roster.

 

No, basically my point is. No team with good players would give them legitimate chances to be everyday or probably even platoon players. Which I believe would prevent people from thinking they are the 10th and 15th best prospect in a good minor league system. They both would be written off as 4A players in an organization with a good ML team. Those are not top 15 type talents.

 

I'd imagine either one would be claimed by most teams if DFAd tomorrow

[WrigleyField 22]

What we know about Vitters:

Strong contact/hitting ability

Acceptable hitting results when he has been age appropriate with enough sample

Improved walk rate dating back to 2012

Still overall below average patience/approach

Acceptable history of K rate, though naturally did go up with increased walk rate

Average athlete with good frame

Arm that projects for OF

Moved off 3B

Putrid MLB stint

Slightly split heavy in his results.

 

Questions:

Injury concerns from last year

How will he adjust to LF

Will power develop?

Was MLB stint fluky/recoverable?

 

Now as far as time goes, this is basically his age 24 season. He has a full option year to burn and his tasks to overcome aren't huge. Yes we know what his downsides will be, but the question marks aren't too unusual. Picking up an easy defensive position and filling out power into mid to late twenties aren't monumental tasks. Enough to put a guy with pretty solid stat lines in 5 minor league season in the bottom of a top 20, but not enough to dismiss him. Even last year he was looked at more favorably and the worst thing he did was get hurt. It sucks, but taking away the lens of trying to view him as what he once was, the year in lost time isn't too big a deal. He also is being rated at a new position. Is a defensive spectrum shift and a lost year enough to drop him so far (though granted I guess you felt differently about his ranking last year too).

 

He doesn't have the time of a 18 year old or even a college draftee, but also not nearly as much to prove. Just continue his small progress in plate approach and do what a lot of mid twenties players do- fill out and hit the ball farther.

 

He's got a small chance of fizzling out completely. He has zero chance if being a star. His range is somewhere between a few years of MLB backup and platoon pattern/average starter for a few years. Not too sexy, but enough to think you could get some valuable cost controlled years out of him and rank him around this spot when his field of competition is a lot of guys with nothing above A on their resume.

[WrigleyField 22]

I'm struggling to think of teams that would dismiss Olt or Vitters unless you're just taking the stance that teams with good players just don't like any prospects. I know I'm personally not basing their value on our major league roster.

 

No, basically my point is. No team with good players would give them legitimate chances to be everyday or probably even platoon players. Which I believe would prevent people from thinking they are the 10th and 15th best prospect in a good minor league system. They both would be written off as 4A players in an organization with a good ML team. Those are not top 15 type talents.

I guess I just don't rank prospects like that. If he has platoon potential he has prospect value even if he's blocked by a current player(s). Ranking prospects like that inherently hurts prospects of good teams- not really an even playing field. I'd like to be as universal as possible.

[jersey cubs fan]

I'm struggling to think of teams that would dismiss Olt or Vitters unless you're just taking the stance that teams with good players just don't like any prospects. I know I'm personally not basing their value on our major league roster.

 

No, basically my point is. No team with good players would give them legitimate chances to be everyday or probably even platoon players. Which I believe would prevent people from thinking they are the 10th and 15th best prospect in a good minor league system. They both would be written off as 4A players in an organization with a good ML team. Those are not top 15 type talents.

 

I'd imagine either one would be claimed by most teams if DFAd tomorrow

 

I don't get what that has to do with it. Considering the garbage that gets picked up by every team from time to time that isn't a statement about their value as prospects.

[jersey cubs fan]

He's got a small chance of fizzling out completely.

 

Define small.

[WrigleyField 22]

He's got a small chance of fizzling out completely.

 

Define small.

Within the realm of worth mentioning? I can't quantify it as a number.

 

Relative to what you might expect from a guy ranked 15-20? Less than his putrid MLB performance might otherwise indicate but more than his ML line would indicate?

 

Smaller than a guy with no AA experience?

[bukie]

What is something Vitters does particularly well, aside from "being about the right age for the league"?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

What is something Vitters does particularly well, aside from "being about the right age for the league"?

 

Hit baseballs pitched at him.

[Cubswin11]

What is something Vitters does particularly well, aside from "being about the right age for the league"?

Hit/make contact

[WrigleyField 22]

What is something Vitters does particularly well, aside from "being about the right age for the league"?

 

Hit baseballs pitched at him.

It's like people can't open fangraphs.

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

Those 33 strikeouts in 109 PA in his cup of coffee did a lot to prove that.

[mul21]

This argument is comical to me. You're talking about one guy who's never even played an inning of professional baseball versus a guy who has eventually figured out every level he's been at to at least a modicum of success. Will Vitters ever be an MVP type? No, but he certainly still has a solid chance at becoming an average to above average MLB player, which Jiminez is, at a minimum, 3 years away from even getting a sniff at being.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Those 33 strikeouts in 109 PA in his cup of coffee did a lot to prove that.

 

That's one fewer than Anthony Rizzo struck out in his first 109 MLB PAs.

[bukie]

Those 33 strikeouts in 109 PA in his cup of coffee did a lot to prove that.

And another 24 strikeouts in 117 PA last season, which were the only PA he had last season. I can more easily excuse an injury season for a player that really showed something special, but I see Vitters about the same as Szczur now, a serviceable filler that could break into the major league roster and fill a bench role possibly.

[jersey cubs fan]

he certainly still has a solid chance at becoming an average to above average MLB player,

 

no he doesn't