Yankees Sign Masahiro Tanaka

[Irrelevant Dude]

The Cubs aren't not spending because that's Theo's strategy. The Cubs are not spending because of their owners.

If you say so.

 

Are people still questioning this? It seems pretty implicit that it is true.

 

It is entirely possible that the Cubs are unable to spend money because of the structure of the Tribune sale and not because ownership doesn't have it. It doesn't matter how much money the owners have if they are only allowed to spend the direct revenue from baseball operations. If I remember correctly, those restrictions will be lifted in a few years.

[jersey cubs fan]

Oh yeah... Good players. I forgot about those. Silly me, I thought it was about building a healthy franchise top to bottom that will consistently produce playoff teams thus increasing their chances of winning a world championship...or several. I got all wrapped up in that Theospeak and lost focus on the real prize, get as many good baseball players on your major league team as you can no matter what method, and win as many baseball games as you can this season. Thanks, Mr. Logic, for once again showing some of us lost Cubs fans the light.

 

If the point of building a consistent winner is to avoid losing seasons then they've already failed with multiple losing seasons. You can't praise the process of building a consistent winner and ignore all the consistent losing.

[Guest]

The Cubs aren't not spending because that's Theo's strategy. The Cubs are not spending because of their owners.

I don't know about that. I think it's mostly Theo's strategy and the owners are going along with it.

 

Why would any FO willfully cut themselves off like that? That makes absolutely no sense.

 

He's been saying for a while that Theo is baseball moguling it as an ego thing

Listen to what Theo has said and done repeatedly since he left Boston. He said they got burned in Boston chasing big money guys and paying a premium for past performance. He said you have to think like a small market team. He said you are never one player away. He talked about emulating the Rays. Every single thing that has come out of his mouth and all of his actions, including hiring his staff screams it.

 

I think the Ricketts family are smart enough to know they don't know how to build a baseball franchise. They hired Theo because he sold them a business model that they believe will maximize returns.

 

I guess it's ok to make the family out to be the bad guys if you want. I think Theo and his guys are doing it their way with little meddling by ownership. It's an ego thing but also I think they think it's the best strategy for long term success. I have no doubt that the Cubs are flush with cash but are choosing to invest in more cost effective things and are waiting to see what happens with the renovations.

 

Edit: they always seem to find the money when they have a target in sight. The just haven't always closed the deal. If they get Tanaka it will be fantastic and expensive.

[KingCubsFan]

The Cubs aren't not spending because that's Theo's strategy. The Cubs are not spending because of their owners.

I don't know about that. I think it's mostly Theo's strategy and the owners are going along with it.

 

Why would any FO willfully cut themselves off like that? That makes absolutely no sense.

 

He's been saying for a while that Theo is baseball moguling it as an ego thing

Listen to what Theo has said and done repeatedly since he left Boston. He said they got burned in Boston chasing big money guys and paying a premium for past performance. He said you have to think like a small market team. He said you are never one player away. He talked about emulating the Rays. Every single thing that has come out of his mouth and all of his actions, including hiring his staff screams it.

 

Can you provide links for these statements? I never recall Theo saying he wanted to emulate the Rays because they don't spend any money. I'm guessing you took all of these "quotes" completely out of context.

 

He has talked about paying a premium for past performance, and that's why it's important to get your own players from your farm system. He's absolutely right about that. Because of that model, the Yankees will now pay 140 million for Ellsbury's declining years, while the Red Sox got his peak at a discount, and will now slide Jackie Bradley into that spot for the league minimum. I'm not sure how anyone could disagree that's the optimal way to run a baseball team.

[Guest]

Out of context? Give me a [expletive] break. What part of emulating the rays can be taken out of context? You can google any statement Theo has made and the theme hasn't changed. You can say he is fronting for the owners but his strategy and tactics are crystal clear. I'm not necessarily knocking him or the owners, I'm simply pointing out exactly what they've done.

 

The media has speculated greatly fed by sources to spin a narrative of an ownership group hamstrung by financial restrictions. Obliviously the money is not on limited but they are also not a small market team. Theo is complicit in, and I think the designer of how they are spending money.

[Guest]

Is Theo less likely to sign a huge FA deal than he was in Boston(even with the same resources)? Probably

 

Is Theo less likely to sign some mid-tier FAs(older guys, guys with qualifying offers, etc) due to the state of the rebuild? Probably

 

Are we seeing the idealized version of what Theo wants to build, and there's money left on the table and Ricketts is just a scapegoat? Absolutely not.

 

For one, if you're going to take Theo's word about his approach, then we probably need to take him at his word the multiple times he's said there are financial restrictions and that they've spent every dollar they've been allotted.

 

The other reason is that the talent level hasn't been high enough for it to make sense for them to ignore better players when they've ended up going with similarly short-term options. For example, if they had the headroom for a $120 million payroll, why wouldn't they have signed a Victorino for 3 years instead of getting Schierholtz and his 2 years of team control? He's a better player on a similar term and the only difference is money(Victorino didn't get a QO). The logic comes down to Theo intentionally making a worse decision out of pride, and that's silly.

[SouthSideRyan]

It's nobody's "fault", but they're acting like there is a conspiracy against them and trying to find any way they can to circumvent the new system that was agreed on by every other team in the league and MLB. I guarantee if they hold off on posting him until next year the new rules aren't going to magically change and give them an extra 30 million.

 

But they'll get another year of Tanaka

 

Yeah, I'm sure that's why they can't make a decision. He might get them to the NPB World Series.

 

The NPB doesn't exist for the sole purpose of making MLB teams better. You're acting like they're some Frontier League team.

[Guest]

It's nobody's "fault", but they're acting like there is a conspiracy against them and trying to find any way they can to circumvent the new system that was agreed on by every other team in the league and MLB. I guarantee if they hold off on posting him until next year the new rules aren't going to magically change and give them an extra 30 million.

 

But they'll get another year of Tanaka

 

Yeah, I'm sure that's why they can't make a decision. He might get them to the NPB World Series.

 

The NPB doesn't exist for the sole purpose of making MLB teams better. You're acting like they're some Frontier League team.

 

I just don't understand where Tangled Up in Plaid's logic.

[Backtobanks]

He said they got burned in Boston chasing big money guys and paying a premium for past performance.

 

Yeah, that "chasing big money guys and paying a premium for past performance" issue never came up when they won 2 WS with one of the highest payrolls in baseball.

[Guest]

The Cubs aren't not spending because that's Theo's strategy. The Cubs are not spending because of their owners.

If you say so.

 

http://www.csnchicago.com/cubs/cubs-how-theo-would-spend-free-agency

 

There have been mixed signals on whether the Cubs will have even one bullet to fire this winter. But once the revenues start flowing from new television deals and a renovated Wrigley Field, they’re supposed to get to a place where one mistake won’t blow up their entire budget.

 

That’s how a big-market team like the Boston Red Sox operates. Epstein could work around free-agent misses at Fenway Park. That’s an insight into how he would be spending here.

 

“That’s one of the real benefits of having lots of flexibility in a given offseason,” Epstein said last week. “You can take chances. You can feel more comfortable taking certain risks. Any time you sign a free-agent pitcher, it’s a massive risk, because you’re one pitch away from getting zero return on that investment. How do you think that feels?

 

“That’s not comfortable. But when you’re hedging your bets and making three and four and five and six different investments — and you’re bringing in some lower-salary players as well for depth and you’re diversifying your investments — that’s a lot better feeling than if you have all your flexibility getting you one bet.

 

“That’s a tough circumstance to be in. So, sure, having that flexibility we’re going to have in the future has a ripple effect on some of the things we’re able to try and do.”

[Hairyducked Idiot]

It seems to me that spending money on getting the best possible players at the major league level at the expense of the rest of the franchise is what the Cubs had been doing for much of my lifetime.

 

It is literally amazing to me that this complete and and total horsepoop has become accepted fact for so much of the fanbase.

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

It's nobody's "fault", but they're acting like there is a conspiracy against them and trying to find any way they can to circumvent the new system that was agreed on by every other team in the league and MLB. I guarantee if they hold off on posting him until next year the new rules aren't going to magically change and give them an extra 30 million.

 

But they'll get another year of Tanaka

 

Yeah, I'm sure that's why they can't make a decision. He might get them to the NPB World Series.

 

The NPB doesn't exist for the sole purpose of making MLB teams better. You're acting like they're some Frontier League team.

 

I just don't understand where Tangled Up in Plaid's logic.

 

My point is they don't care at all about having Tanaka on their team. If the posting rules hadn't changed they'd already be 55 million dollars richer and wouldn't have thought twice about posting him.

[KingCubsFan]

Out of context? Give me a [expletive] break. What part of emulating the rays can be taken out of context?

If Theo said he wants to be like the Rays (and I don't remember him saying that), it could be because (1) They've had one of the best farm systems in baseball over the past few years, (2) Their front office uses creative ways to gain an edge on the competition, (3) They want to lock up their young players like Rays did with Longoria. There are a lot of ways a team like the Cubs would want to emulate the Rays. Not spending money on purpose is not one of them. It's as if you're buying into Kyle's theory that Theo left Boston so he could take a vacation in Chicago, treating the Cubs like a game of Baseball Mogul, and trying to spend as little money as possible so he could build an all prospect team and be hailed a genius.

[jersey cubs fan]

It seems to me that spending money on getting the best possible players at the major league level at the expense of the rest of the franchise is what the Cubs had been doing for much of my lifetime.

 

It is literally amazing to me that this complete and and total horsepoop has become accepted fact for so much of the fanbase.

PR firms exist, and make lots of money, for a reason.

[Guest]

But they'll get another year of Tanaka

 

Yeah, I'm sure that's why they can't make a decision. He might get them to the NPB World Series.

 

The NPB doesn't exist for the sole purpose of making MLB teams better. You're acting like they're some Frontier League team.

 

I just don't understand where Tangled Up in Plaid's logic.

 

My point is they don't care at all about having Tanaka on their team. If the posting rules hadn't changed they'd already be 55 million dollars richer and wouldn't have thought twice about posting him.

 

Sure, Rakuten would rather have $55 million (or more) than Tanaka just like the Cubs would rather have Sanchez and Stroman than Samardzija. When you're getting far less for your player than you believe is his value, you're more likely to keep him.

[CubsWin]

Oh yeah... Good players. I forgot about those. Silly me, I thought it was about building a healthy franchise top to bottom that will consistently produce playoff teams thus increasing their chances of winning a world championship...or several. I got all wrapped up in that Theospeak and lost focus on the real prize, get as many good baseball players on your major league team as you can no matter what method, and win as many baseball games as you can this season. Thanks, Mr. Logic, for once again showing some of us lost Cubs fans the light.

 

If the point of building a consistent winner is to avoid losing seasons then they've already failed with multiple losing seasons. You can't praise the process of building a consistent winner and ignore all the consistent losing.

I think you missed the point. They are building a consistent winner. Not conjuring one.

 

Taking an unhealthy franchise, one that had sold out it's long term for it's short term for decades and had very little in the way of young, controllable, impact talent, and building one from the ground up takes time. If you'd like to criticize them for having two losing seasons, be my guest.

[CubsWin]

It seems to me that spending money on getting the best possible players at the major league level at the expense of the rest of the franchise is what the Cubs had been doing for much of my lifetime.

 

It is literally amazing to me that this complete and and total horsepoop has become accepted fact for so much of the fanbase.

PR firms exist, and make lots of money, for a reason.

And it's amazing to me that you think a team that was saddled with so many bad contracts, had two losing seasons prior to Theo taking over and little to no young, controllable, impact talent should be able to magically conjure a winning team immediately upon signing a new GM while at the same time building a healthy franchise where there hadn't been one in 60 years.

 

It's also amazing to me that you could also be blind to all of the progress that has been made in building a healthy franchise able to produce teams that will consistently be in the playoffs. They're not there yet, but the progress is measurable whether you want to see it or not.

[CubsWin]

More speculation on a posting announcement. This time from Ben Badler of Baseball America.

 

The Rakuten Eagles could make an announcement about Masahiro Tanaka soon.

 

Tanaka is currently away in Tokyo making appearances at events today and tomorrow, according to Japanese media reports, including Nikkan Sports. While Tanaka said he has yet to hear back from Eagles management since he informed the team of his desire to pitch in Major League Baseball next season, it’s expected that the Eagles will inform Tanaka of their decision at their next meeting.

 

Since Tanaka could have more events beginning Dec. 26, the belief in Japan is that an announcement on Tanaka could come on Dec. 24 or Dec. 25. The deadline for the Eagles to decide whether to make Tanaka available through the posting system is Feb. 1, though it isn’t expected they would drag things out anywhere close to that date.

 

Tanaka, a 25-year-old ace in Japan, wants to pitch in MLB. Several major league teams project him as an immediate frontline starter and are eagerly anticipating his arrival. If posted, Tanaka would be the best pitcher on the market, so free agent starters Matt Garza, Ervin Santana and Ubaldo Jimenez want his situation resolved quickly so their markets can move forward.

 

On Christmas, they could all get an answer.

[Guest]

It seems to me that spending money on getting the best possible players at the major league level at the expense of the rest of the franchise is what the Cubs had been doing for much of my lifetime.

 

It is literally amazing to me that this complete and and total horsepoop has become accepted fact for so much of the fanbase.

PR firms exist, and make lots of money, for a reason.

And it's amazing to me that you think a team that was saddled with so many bad contracts, had two losing seasons prior to Theo taking over and little to no young, controllable, impact talent should be able to magically conjure a winning team immediately upon signing a new GM while at the same time building a healthy franchise where there hadn't been one in 60 years.

 

It's also amazing to me that you could also be blind to all of the progress that has been made in building a healthy franchise able to produce teams that will consistently be in the playoffs. They're not there yet, but the progress is measurable whether you want to see it or not.

They still are not a healthy franchise. The progress is not measurable unless you want to use ordinal measures based on subjective evaluations of minor league players. I think the word you are looking for is potential. They are potentially a better franchise then they were when Theo took over, which is exciting and great (and I mean that). Whether the potential is realized remains to be seen.

 

Also, the process is not an either/or situation. It's possible to build a system and make the major league team better at the same time. Theo and the Ricketts family have chosen not to do that. I'm not going to put a judgment on if that is a bad thing or a good thing. I really think it needs to be mentioned though.

[Backtobanks]

It's possible to build a system and make the major league team better at the same time.

 

I remember the promise of building on "dual fronts".

[Hairyducked Idiot]

It seems to me that spending money on getting the best possible players at the major league level at the expense of the rest of the franchise is what the Cubs had been doing for much of my lifetime.

 

It is literally amazing to me that this complete and and total horsepoop has become accepted fact for so much of the fanbase.

PR firms exist, and make lots of money, for a reason.

And it's amazing to me that you think a team that was saddled with so many bad contracts, had two losing seasons prior to Theo taking over and little to no young, controllable, impact talent should be able to magically conjure a winning team immediately upon signing a new GM while at the same time building a healthy franchise where there hadn't been one in 60 years.

 

It's also amazing to me that you could also be blind to all of the progress that has been made in building a healthy franchise able to produce teams that will consistently be in the playoffs. They're not there yet, but the progress is measurable whether you want to see it or not.

 

We didn't say any of those things. You actually did say the thing you said. Which was really, really wrong.

 

There was like *one* time in all of Cubs history that they simultaneously spent money to get the best possible players in the majors and sort-of shortchanged the rest of the franchise (although not as much as some want to believe), and it was a blip. Barely even a year or two.

[davell]

They may have spent money on the draft for the most part(not as much as they could have, but acceptable) but they winged it from a player development standpoint at all times, prior to Theo. Extremely small scouting departments, unorganized paths for improvement, pitiful tracking systems for development, bad facilities....Just not a set up to maximize your success in under any circumstances and the results helped prove it out.

[treebird]

They may have spent money on the draft for the most part(not as much as they could have, but acceptable) but they winged it from a player development standpoint at all times, prior to Theo. Extremely small scouting departments, unorganized paths for improvement, pitiful tracking systems for development, bad facilities....Just not a set up to maximize your success in under any circumstances and the results helped prove it out.

 

no value ascribed to wilken?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

They may have spent money on the draft for the most part(not as much as they could have, but acceptable) but they winged it from a player development standpoint at all times, prior to Theo. Extremely small scouting departments, unorganized paths for improvement, pitiful tracking systems for development, bad facilities....Just not a set up to maximize your success in under any circumstances and the results helped prove it out.

 

That's more or less true, but it's not like that money was being diverted to the major league product very often. The Cubs underinvested in all aspects of the organization, top and bottom, for most of the 20th century. Then in the 21st they've kind of bounced back and forth between a few different plans. There was barely any time at all where the reason scouting/development was underdeveloped was the MLB product hogging resources.

[CubsWin]

It's possible to build a system and make the major league team better at the same time.

 

I remember the promise of building on "dual fronts".

Yeah, those results have not been great...