2013 NBA Draft Thread

[Sammy Sofa]

I often wonder about how great Shaq's career could have been if he was 6'9"

 

he would have been the best pf of all time instead of the best c?

 

What if he'd been 5'11". Then you've got yourself a superstar.

 

You remember Khalid El-Amin's career very differently than I do.

I was thinking for a good comp for a 5'11" Shaq, but was drawing a blank. That's the one, right there.

 

This discussion deserves a standing ovation.

[Derwood]

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm16/dhohulin/dontdraft_zps9bc1d017.jpg

 

Felton Spencer

Duane Causwell

Dwayne Schintznius

Luc Longley

Rich King

Stanley Roberts

Elmore Spencer

Shawn Bradley

Luther Wright

Eric Montross

Yinka Dare

Bryant Reeves

George Zidek

Greg Ostertag

Priest Lauderdale

Travis Knight

Chris Anstey

Paul Grant

Alek Radojevic

Frederic Weis

Chris Mihm

Dalibor Bagaric

Iakovos Tsakalidis

Mamadou NDiaye

Primoz Brezec

Steven Hunter

Nikoloz Tskitishvili

Curtis Borchardt

Darko Milicic

Robert Smith

Pavel Podkolzine

David Harrison

Johan Petro

Patrick O'Bryant

Mouhammed Saer Sene

Oleksiy Pecherov

Greg Oden

Yi Jianlian

Spencer Hawes

 

That's just 1990-2006.

[Sammy Sofa]

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm16/dhohulin/dontdraft_zps9bc1d017.jpg

 

Felton Spencer

Duane Causwell

Dwayne Schintznius

Luc Longley

Rich King

Stanley Roberts

Elmore Spencer

Shawn Bradley

Luther Wright

Eric Montross

Yinka Dare

Bryant Reeves

George Zidek

Greg Ostertag

Priest Lauderdale

Travis Knight

Chris Anstey

Paul Grant

Alek Radojevic

Frederic Weis

Chris Mihm

Dalibor Bagaric

Iakovos Tsakalidis

Mamadou NDiaye

Primoz Brezec

Steven Hunter

Nikoloz Tskitishvili

Curtis Borchardt

Darko Milicic

Robert Smith

Pavel Podkolzine

David Harrison

Johan Petro

Patrick O'Bryant

Mouhammed Saer Sene

Oleksiy Pecherov

Greg Oden

Yi Jianlian

Spencer Hawes

 

That's just 1990-2006.

 

"Just," what, 40 players in nearly two decades' worth of drafts?

 

Plus I like how you're seemingly implying we're going to find a bevy of additional 7' flame-outs in 1949-1989.

[WrigleyField 22]

Who cares how tall a guy is to the top of his head anyways.

[Derwood]

 

"Just," what, 40 players in nearly two decades' worth of drafts?

 

Plus I like how you're seemingly implying we're going to find a bevy of additional 7' flame-outs in 1949-1989.

 

The point is that Wolf's cute little Photoshop pointed to the exceptions, not the rule

[bukie]

Yeah, drafting 7 footers really only have about a 10% chance of becoming one of the top 50 players of all time. It's hardly worth the effort, when drafting smaller players has a much better success rate for superstars.

[Sammy Sofa]

 

"Just," what, 40 players in nearly two decades' worth of drafts?

 

Plus I like how you're seemingly implying we're going to find a bevy of additional 7' flame-outs in 1949-1989.

 

The point is that Wolf's cute little Photoshop pointed to the exceptions, not the rule

 

And? If you arbitrarily changed it to, say, "don't draft anyone over 6'8"" you'd get even more busts; the point is that it's foolish to seemingly automatically pass on someone because of how tall they are. Plus you realize superstars are inherently the exceptions regardless of their height, right?

[Derwood]

 

"Just," what, 40 players in nearly two decades' worth of drafts?

 

Plus I like how you're seemingly implying we're going to find a bevy of additional 7' flame-outs in 1949-1989.

 

The point is that Wolf's cute little Photoshop pointed to the exceptions, not the rule

 

And? If you arbitrarily changed it to, say, "don't draft anyone over 6'8"" you'd get even more busts; the point is that it's foolish to seemingly automatically pass on someone because of how tall they are. Plus you realize superstars are inherently the exceptions regardless of their height, right?

 

It's also foolish to value a player simply because he's 7 feet tall

[Exile on Waveland]

Rumeal Robinson

Travis Mays

Eric Murdock

Randy Woods

Lee Mayberry

Bobby Hurley

Khalid Reeves

B.J. Tyler

Brooks Thompson

Randolph Childress

Cory Alexander

Antonio Daniels

Bryce Drew

Tyronn Lue

William Avery

Vonteego Cummings

Mateen Cleaves

Erick Barkley

Raul Lopez

Jay Williams

Frank Williams

Dan Dickau

Marcus Banks

Troy Bell

Shaun Livingston

Sebastian Telfair

Marcus Williams

 

 

And that's just first-round point guards from 1990-2006. Guess you can't draft them either.

[Derwood]

No one is using a PG's height as the primary reason for drafting them.

[Exile on Waveland]

You have created a strawman on top of another strawman, congrats.

 

No one is drafting centers merely because of their height. Not every 7-foot player is drafted. Even the project-type 7-footers drafted have something else besides height. And height matters. A lot.

[Derwood]

 

No one is drafting centers merely because of their height.

 

Shawn Bradley and Gheorge Muresan were drafted for their athleticism and ball handling skills?

[Sammy Sofa]

It's also foolish to value a player simply because he's 7 feet tall

 

But that's not the point people were arguing against the rule of thumb; you're seemingly assuming that because people don't agree with the idea of "steer clear of players if they're a certain height or above" it means "place added value on players of a certain height or above." That's incorrect and, as pointed out, a strawman.

[Sammy Sofa]

No one is using a PG's height as the primary reason for drafting them.

 

No, but many use a similarly simplistic evaluation to draft busts of all shapes and sizes. The original point of disagreement is that if you create a blanket reason to dismiss certain players then you're potentially cutting yourself off from drafting some serious talent. That doesn't mean "OF COURSE YOU DRAFT ANY GIANT THAT COMES ALONG."

[CubColtPacer]

 

No one is drafting centers merely because of their height.

 

Shawn Bradley and Gheorge Muresan were drafted for their athleticism and ball handling skills?

 

Bradley was a very good shot blocker and solid rebounder. Muresan had a season where he averaged 14.5 points, 9.6 rebounds and 2.3 blocks in under 30 minutes a game. Bradley played over 10 years in the NBA, and Muresan would have as well if he hadn't gotten hurt. They weren't stiffs. They had skills to go with that height.

[Thed Hoyerstein]

Rumeal Robinson

Travis Mays

Eric Murdock

Randy Woods

Lee Mayberry

Bobby Hurley

Khalid Reeves

B.J. Tyler

Brooks Thompson

Randolph Childress

Cory Alexander

Antonio Daniels

Bryce Drew

Tyronn Lue

William Avery

Vonteego Cummings

Mateen Cleaves

Erick Barkley

Raul Lopez

Jay Williams

Frank Williams

Dan Dickau

Marcus Banks

Troy Bell

Shaun Livingston

Sebastian Telfair

Marcus Williams

 

 

And that's just first-round point guards from 1990-2006. Guess you can't draft them either.

 

Need to draft more Jordans and Pippens, duh.

[Exile on Waveland]

 

No one is drafting centers merely because of their height.

 

Shawn Bradley and Gheorge Muresan were drafted for their athleticism and ball handling skills?

 

Shawn Bradley was actually pretty skilled--especially relative to his size. He was a McDonald's All-American in high school and averaged 14.8 points, 7.7 rebounds, and 5.2 blocks during his one season in college. There was a reason besides 7-foot-6 that he was drafted second overall; otherwise, all similarly sized players would be drafted that high. They aren't (see the other player you cited). Moreover, while Bradley obviously wasn't worth the second pick in the draft, he did play twelve years with career averages of 8.1 points, 6.3 rebounds, and 2.5 blocks.

 

Muresan was drafted in the second round; as such, he was a flyer. This isn't the NFL or MLB, the second-round has largely been irrelevant. Edit: and, as CCP pointed out, he wasn't completely a stiff.

 

But let's be clear, again: size matters. A lot.

[wolf stansson]

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm16/dhohulin/dontdraft_zps9bc1d017.jpg

 

Felton Spencer

Duane Causwell

Dwayne Schintznius

Luc Longley

Rich King

Stanley Roberts

Elmore Spencer

Shawn Bradley

Luther Wright

Eric Montross

Yinka Dare

Bryant Reeves

George Zidek

Greg Ostertag

Priest Lauderdale

Travis Knight

Chris Anstey

Paul Grant

Alek Radojevic

Frederic Weis

Chris Mihm

Dalibor Bagaric

Iakovos Tsakalidis

Mamadou NDiaye

Primoz Brezec

Steven Hunter

Nikoloz Tskitishvili

Curtis Borchardt

Darko Milicic

Robert Smith

Pavel Podkolzine

David Harrison

Johan Petro

Patrick O'Bryant

Mouhammed Saer Sene

Oleksiy Pecherov

Greg Oden

Yi Jianlian

Spencer Hawes

 

That's just 1990-2006.

 

Are you this stupid or have you gone so completely through the rabbit hole of internet arguing culture that you're going to find a way to argue any dumb position imaginable with complete conviction?

 

No one is using a PG's height as the primary reason for drafting them.

 

No, but many use a similarly simplistic evaluation to draft busts of all shapes and sizes. The original point of disagreement is that if you create a blanket reason to dismiss certain players then you're potentially cutting yourself off from drafting some serious talent. That doesn't mean "OF COURSE YOU DRAFT ANY GIANT THAT COMES ALONG."

Apparently Derwood has no grasp of nuance and is so conditioned to just argue any nonsensical point that he needed me to spell that out for him.

 

Using arbitrary measureables to eliminate entire populations of prospects without scouting them individually is so stupid that it's not even worth entertaining a discussion on, just a sarcastically obvious photoshop. A point which Derwood's entertainingly researched list (even though all of the names listed aren't actually 'footers) actually reinforces conversely. Don't not draft players for dumb reasons. Don't draft players for dumb reasons.

[Guest]

No one is using a PG's height as the primary reason for drafting them.

 

No one is using height as the primary reason to draft centers, either.

 

Geez.

[illiniguy]

No one is using a PG's height as the primary reason for drafting them.

 

No one is using height as the primary reason to draft centers, either.

 

Geez.

Wait, you mean Neal Fingleton and Kenny George didn't go lottery?

[Pushfrog98]

I accidentally landed on Bl**ch*r R*p*rt, and checked out their mock draft. They had Hardaway Jr. to the Bulls... Thoughts?

[SouthSideRyan]

Rumeal Robinson

Travis Mays

Eric Murdock

Randy Woods

Lee Mayberry

Bobby Hurley

Khalid Reeves

B.J. Tyler

Brooks Thompson

Randolph Childress

Cory Alexander

Antonio Daniels

Bryce Drew

Tyronn Lue

William Avery

Vonteego Cummings

Mateen Cleaves

Erick Barkley

Raul Lopez

Jay Williams

Frank Williams

Dan Dickau

Marcus Banks

Troy Bell

Shaun Livingston

Sebastian Telfair

Marcus Williams

 

 

And that's just first-round point guards from 1990-2006. Guess you can't draft them either.

 

Need to draft more Jordans and Pippens, duh.

 

Adonis Jordan

Charles Jordan

Eddie Jordan

Jerome Jordan

Reggie Jordan

Thomas Jordan

[Guest]

If the point is you don't draft Bowie over Jordan because he's 7'...well, duh.

 

If the point is never draft anyone over 7' because they are bad bets...no.

[imb]

 

No one is drafting centers merely because of their height.

 

Shawn Bradley and Gheorge Muresan were drafted for their athleticism and ball handling skills?

 

lmao george muresean was a 2nd round pick. you really think they regret drafting him?

[wolf stansson]

Lets not get it twisted, though. Size is an extremely important measurable. The overwhelming majority of NBA champions have great big men. To be a great big man, you first have to be big.

 

 

Now, normally I'd end my post there because my point is pretty evident, but for my man derwood's edification, ill clarify that I don't think every big player is great or every great player is big.