Bears Offseason Thread (Trestman new HC, pg 37)

[jersey cubs fan]

He's probably the second best receiving TE despite the drops.

 

Those things never work.

[Guest]

He's probably the second best receiving TE despite the drops.

 

Those things never work.

 

I agree. I can see the desire in keeping him given his potential (especially since the other TEs behind Bennett can't catch) but the odds are stacked against him having success and keeping 4 TEs would be unwise given injuries and depth elsewhere on the roster.

[WrigleyField 22]

I wasn't really listening, but Mully & Hanley were also speculating that Hardin just didn't do enough. "Doesn't deserve to be on the roster."

 

It's pretty bad when a 3rd round pick can't even make the team. Terrible, wasted pick.

It was a very Angelo type pick, weirdly.

 

Not sure what you mean by that. It was very much an Emery like pick. He likes big freaks of nature and doesn't care about a lack of college playing time or perceived value.

When I look at the athletic freaks Emery drafted they showed that freakishness on the field more than Hardins tape. Even a guy like Long showed on the field athleticism, even in limited snaps. Then you have the contingency of non athletic freaks like Jeffrey and Mills. I think it's very accurate to say Emery's idea of athletic freaks is not the same as Angelo's (pool jumper).

 

But beyond the athleticism, oft injured CB converting to safety in third round seems up Angelo's alley. Some combination of those factors was seen a lot during Angelo's run.

[WrigleyField 22]

He's probably the second best receiving TE despite the drops.

 

Those things never work.

 

I agree. I can see the desire in keeping him given his potential (especially since the other TEs behind Bennett can't catch) but the odds are stacked against him having success and keeping 4 TEs would be unwise given injuries and depth elsewhere on the roster.

Have to agree. If you think you need the extra receiving TE, it should come at the expense of one of your three blocking TE/FB. And it also shouldn't be such a project.

[jersey cubs fan]

I wasn't really listening, but Mully & Hanley were also speculating that Hardin just didn't do enough. "Doesn't deserve to be on the roster."

 

It's pretty bad when a 3rd round pick can't even make the team. Terrible, wasted pick.

It was a very Angelo type pick, weirdly.

 

Not sure what you mean by that. It was very much an Emery like pick. He likes big freaks of nature and doesn't care about a lack of college playing time or perceived value.

When I look at the athletic freaks Emery drafted they showed that freakishness on the field more than Hardins tape. Even a guy like Long showed on the field athleticism, even in limited snaps. Then you have the contingency of non athletic freaks like Jeffrey and Mills. I think it's very accurate to say Emery's idea of athletic freaks is not the same as Angelo's (pool jumper).

 

But beyond the athleticism, oft injured CB converting to safety in third round seems up Angelo's alley. Some combination of those factors was seen a lot during Angelo's run.

 

Angelo was a scheme fitter. He knew what Lovie wanted to do and he drafted guys to fit that scheme, even if they only had value because they could theoretically play in that scheme and were not worthy of being selected. Emery is much more of a "draft athletes and make the coaches find a way to make it work" guy. This was an Emery pick.

[rawaction]

Webb, Palmer, Hardin, Edwards, E Williams, Golden so far. And Jerry Franklin and Lenz.

[Sosa21MVP]

Brad Biggs ‏@BradBiggs 19m

One source suggests #Bears will keep 4 tight ends and FB Tony Fiammetta. 4th TE could be Onobun or newcomer. We'll see what develops here.

 

How can Onobun make this team? Is he a great blocker or something?

 

He's probably the second best receiving TE despite the drops. Great athlete/project, and does well in practice. As raw put it, he clearly can get open.

 

Plus he has an awesome name.

[WrigleyField 22]

Agreed on the scheme part. Emery cares less about scheme. Still, from an athleticism standpoint, I think Hardin stands out from Emery's other "athletic" picks as someone with less on the field athleticism than workout athleticism. Going back to drafts in Atlanta and KC, I think this stays fairly true as well.

[WrigleyField 22]

Webb, Palmer, Hardin, Edwards, E Williams, Golden so far. And Jerry Franklin and Lenz.

So is Slauson the backup C? I like Williams, but as long as Slauson can handle C, I guess this allows you to keep extra T/G bodies, and it would easier to shift outside guys inside that being left short handed on Tackles (if Mills struggles or there is an injury)

[jersey cubs fan]

Agreed on the scheme part. Emery cares less about scheme. Still, from an athleticism standpoint, I think Hardin stands out from Emery's other "athletic" picks as someone with less on the field athleticism than workout athleticism.

 

The only reason you can say that is because he hasn't been on the field.

[Wilson A2000]

Brad Biggs ‏@BradBiggs 19m

One source suggests #Bears will keep 4 tight ends and FB Tony Fiammetta. 4th TE could be Onobun or newcomer. We'll see what develops here.

 

How can Onobun make this team? Is he a great blocker or something?

 

Hub said the Bears think he has Antonio Gates' skill set

[Guest]

Webb, Palmer, Hardin, Edwards, E Williams, Golden so far. And Jerry Franklin and Lenz.

So is Slauson the backup C? I like Williams, but as long as Slauson can handle C, I guess this allows you to keep extra T/G bodies, and it would easier to shift outside guys inside that being left short handed on Tackles (if Mills struggles or there is an injury)

 

Yes, Slauson is the backup C.

[rawaction]

Webb, Palmer, Hardin, Edwards, E Williams, Golden so far. And Jerry Franklin and Lenz.

So is Slauson the backup C? I like Williams, but as long as Slauson can handle C, I guess this allows you to keep extra T/G bodies, and it would easier to shift outside guys inside that being left short handed on Tackles (if Mills struggles or there is an injury)

Probably put a C on the practice squad, but yeah Slauson should be fine.

[Guest]

Also on Onobun, he's only playing football for 3 years.

[Guest]

Interesting:

 

@mikecwright: Clarification on Hardin, looks like he's gonna be waived/injured. Fractured scapula.

 

@mikecwright: So, if a player is waived/injured and nobody claims him, he reverts to IR.

[Guest]

Interesting:

 

@mikecwright: Clarification on Hardin, looks like he's gonna be waived/injured. Fractured scapula.

 

@mikecwright: So, if a player is waived/injured and nobody claims him, he reverts to IR.

He looked hurt after that hit in the 4th

[WrigleyField 22]

Agreed on the scheme part. Emery cares less about scheme. Still, from an athleticism standpoint, I think Hardin stands out from Emery's other "athletic" picks as someone with less on the field athleticism than workout athleticism.

 

The only reason you can say that is because he hasn't been on the field.

He has tape. The little I've watched and what I've read from people who have watched more of it than me is that his athleticism doesn't transfer, even in preseason.

 

But anyways, I said the initial comment less about his athleticism and more about more superficial things like Angelo's love for safeties as well as throwing in a few other recurring themes we saw at times like injury risks and CB-S converts. The athleticism thing has some merit as well though now that you bring it up.

 

And I did defend the Hardin pick at the time. But it was obviously a miss. I wasn't trying to free Emery of blame, just putting his failure into terms we can identify with.

 

I do think we can count on less Angelo type failures from Emery the longer our scouts work under him than Angelo (and thanks to the fact we have a more expansive scouting network now). We can re-evaluate this draft next year, but I think it looks stronger than year one at the same time.

[WrigleyField 22]

Webb, Palmer, Hardin, Edwards, E Williams, Golden so far. And Jerry Franklin and Lenz.

So is Slauson the backup C? I like Williams, but as long as Slauson can handle C, I guess this allows you to keep extra T/G bodies, and it would easier to shift outside guys inside that being left short handed on Tackles (if Mills struggles or there is an injury)

Probably put a C on the practice squad, but yeah Slauson should be fine.

Boggs I assume.

[jersey cubs fan]

And I did defend the Hardin pick at the time. But it was obviously a miss. I wasn't trying to free Emery of blame, just putting his failure into terms we can identify with.

 

I do think we can count on less Angelo type failures from Emery the longer our scouts work under him than Angelo (and thanks to the fact we have a more expansive scouting network now). We can re-evaluate this draft next year, but I think it looks stronger than year one at the same time.

 

Hardin was a terrible pick at the time because of where they selected a guy that nobody cared about who did not play the year before. You have to get something out of third rounders.

 

It remains to be seen if Emery will do a better job. Early indications are that maybe he's better at finding potential impact out of top of the draft guys, and potentially not as good at finding value in the middle rounds.

[WrigleyField 22]

Well Hardin was probably always a hit or miss since he had injury issues. That doesn't necessarily mean if you miss on a third rounder injury risk it was unwise. For Hardin? Well it looks like the upside wasn't even there if the injury portion worked out. Injury risks just need to be weighed against reward, but Hardins seems off, especially with hindsight.

 

As far as Angelo's middle round prowess, he was living off a lot of early-mid 2000s hype by the end and a lot of our roster issues stemmed from our inability to draft and develop players who contributed. By the end of his reign I think we had one of the lowest ratios of homegrown players, and year to year the perennially good teams have a pretty high ratio, generally speaking. You build that in the middle rounds. So the bar isn't that high to match Angelo for middle round ability when seen in its entirety and not a relatively short span where he hit on a few.

[WrigleyField 22]

Oh and that first part of the post could change "Hardin" to "Long" and third rounder to first rounder and have been read in July word for word.

 

And that ones already looking different, so hindsight does kind of matter here (though Long could still fail, obviously, despite a strong pre season).

Edited August 30, 2013 by WrigleyField 22

[Soul]

Also on Onobun, he's only playing football for 3 years.

 

So if they keep him, it must be because they view him as a prospect that can develop quickly. Otherwise I would think they cut him and either practice squad or just let him go. They must feel there's something he can do this year (again, if they really do keep him around).

[Guest]

Onobun was cut, as was Armando Allen.

[RynoRules]

You had to cut Onobun. He's an amazing athlete, but he's also a space cadet with unreliable hands.

 

Also, glad to see Ford made the team. He could share the load with Bush were Forte to miss any time.

[Soul]

Ford looked like the better runner. I hope they aren't sacrificing too much S/T and pass protection by keeping him though. I think it's the right call.