Cubs after Anibal Sanchez? (Signs with Tiger 5/$80mil)

[Tryptamine]

Swisher is still out there, not that I'm particularly interested.

[XZero771679666304]

I, for one, would like to see a bat or three. The focus on the pitching is great and all but I'd like to see this team get back out of the gutter when it comes to run production.

 

Unless you like Bourn, who's value is just as much defensive as offensive, there aren't any bats left. The offense for 2013 is pretty much doomed.

 

I'm not all that high on Bourn anyway. Upton was the guy I wanted to see signed.

 

And it's too early to characterize the 2013 offense as "doomed", unless you're limiting your potential additions to those available in the FA market.

[neely crenshaw]

The problem is too many people think we are actually close to being good,so they get really pissed when things fall through.

That simply isn't the case. looking at it, we aren't as good as at the start of last year.So although sanchez could have been a nice piece and help some this year, we would still be at least a year away from contending...and many more signings.

This would have been nice. It was a guy who could have helped make this year a little easier to take but we were still looking up at .500

It does signal that the FO is willing to grab free agents that they feel they need, that will more than likely be around and still contributing when things should be back.

With the guys left do you really want a Liriano or Jackson if takes a 4-5 year deal to get them? they may sign elsewhere for less, but going to this team right now could be a deal killer. They could throw pretty well and still get buried, so I don't see either taking a 1 year deal with us, unless there aren't any other offers.

It doesn't make sense to sign guys to longer deals, unless we really want them for the future. I don't see anything much left that isn't a fill in. So unless we can get a cheap vet for 1 -2 years, why sign them to be slightly better now? I don't see any game changers left on FA market.

We may have to trade some pieces and worse again this year in order to get some help for the next several years.

Edited December 14, 2012 by neely crenshaw

[davell]

If Soriano is dealt this offseason, the offense could be pitiful. One guy on the team would be expected to hit 20 homers and it'll be his first full season in the majors.

[toonsterwu]

Marcum said yesterday his goal is to sign with a contender. Sizemore's not going to be ready to go until close to midseason. The demand is still far outweighing the supply right now. Ross has 3 year deals out there and is trying to get a 4th, I think. It's not a pretty picture.

 

Then you wait some more. At this stage, with what's left, I just don't know if you need to jump into any multi-year commitments (well, I can live with 2 year deals for some of the guys left, and maybe 3 for Jackson, so I guess there are certain cases), which is the likely cost of business with the top guys left available in FA.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

And it's too early to characterize the 2013 offense as "doomed", unless you're limiting your potential additions to those available in the FA market.

 

Well, the Cubs front office has said the trade front is quieter for them than last year, and the trade rumors we are involved in have us sending offense away.

 

The offense is so very, very far from good that it would take a monumental shift to make it anything less than bad. It's really not too early to see that.

 

The pitching staff has a lot of potential to be not just average but good.

[jersey cubs fan]

Is there anyone else remotely useful on the market at this point beyond Jackson and Marcum?

 

Liriano. Bourn too if you weren't just wondering about SP. There's a few relievers of interest too but no one that makes you take notice.

 

I, for one, would like to see a bat or three. The focus on the pitching is great and all but I'd like to see this team get back out of the gutter when it comes to run production.

 

Unless it's coming by trade it's pretty much Bourn and the island of misfit players. Bourn has some intriguing things about him but starting pitching is probably the best way to improve the team right now.

 

Yeah, I didn't have any free agents in mind, but was hoping they'd deal for a bat somehow. Hopefully signing another arm could give them the confidence in the depth where they'd feel confident making a move.

[Tryptamine]

The problem is too many people think we are actually close to being good,so they get really pissed when things fall through.

That simply isn't the case. looking at it, we aren't as good as at the start of last year.So although sanchez could have been a nice piece and help some this year, we would still be at least a year away from contending...and many more signings.

This would have been nice. It was a guy who could have helped make this year a little easier to take but we were still looking up at .500

It does signal that the FO is willing to grab free agents that they feel they need, that will more than likely be around and still contributing when things should be back.

With the guys left do you really want a Liriano or Jackson if takes a 4-5 year deal to get them? they may sign elsewhere for less, but going to this team right now could be a deal killer. They could throw pretty well and still get buried, so I don't see either taking a 1 year deal with us, unless there aren't any other offers.

It doesn't make sense to sign guys to longer deals, unless we really want them for the future. I don't see anything much left that isn't a fill in. So unless we can get a cheap vet for 1 -2 years, why sign them to be slightly better now? I don't see any game changers left on FA market.

We may have to trade some pieces and worse again this year in order to get some help for the next several years.

 

Liriano is not getting anywhere near a 4 or 5 year deal from anyone. He's getting at best a 2 year. He's not exactly comparable to EJax who at least deserves a 4 year deal. I also don't agree this team is worse than it was opening day last year. The starters are at least as good.

[UK1679666180]

Missing out on him hurts, it would've been a significant move as he is one of the better pitchers in the league and would've given the Cubs three top pitchers.

 

It was an outstanding move by the Tigers and the Cubs probably did their best while not overspending on him and the odds were stacked against them of signing him given Detroit's budget, played there last year, and Detroit isn't rebuilding.

 

They still need more starters...

 

But getting Jackson isn't the same as getting Sanchez, there a 2 year difference, better control, etc. Sanchez is a better pitcher than Jackson as Greinke is/was the best pitcher in this class, but Sanchez was the better pickup given their contracts and lesser differences in productions. With that said, even if Jackson could be the best bargain of the off-season, the Cubs aren't in a great position to look at production per $ spent compared to overall production compared to other teams given their likely payroll flexibility and lack of overall talent.

 

I have been disappointed with their results, I still think they will build a quality team and have the tools and methods to do so.

 

There's no need to say everything will be ok when something doesn't work out and there's no need to bring up every failure when something new doesn't work out. Just as there's no need to praise this FO when something good happens and bring up every negative prior to that positive. Nothing wrong with evaluating things at face value.

[jersey cubs fan]

Marcum said yesterday his goal is to sign with a contender. Sizemore's not going to be ready to go until close to midseason. The demand is still far outweighing the supply right now. Ross has 3 year deals out there and is trying to get a 4th, I think. It's not a pretty picture.

 

Then you wait some more. At this stage, with what's left, I just don't know if you need to jump into any multi-year commitments (well, I can live with 2 year deals for some of the guys left, and maybe 3 for Jackson, so I guess there are certain cases), which is the likely cost of business with the top guys left available in FA.

 

If they didn't already have an incredible amount of financial flexibility or if they had a lot tied up into the next 2-4 years then I'd be more hesitant to sign these guys. But this team's only advantage over others now is their money, and they might as well use it. The goal isn't to have the most efficiently structured roster, it's to win more than the other guys. Paying Jackson more than he's worth in 2015 isn't going to prevent them from accomplishing anything.

[neely crenshaw]

Any worthwhile bat we get is going to probably make us worse this season. Unless we somehow steal somebody. It does not make sense to send any of the kids they worked hard to grab, in order to get a current piece when we are so far from being good. It would be great to get an Upton but we will have to trade one of few valuable major leaguers, and i'm not sure we have enough to even get a deal right now. Probably have to wait until there is a need and/or Garza shows he's 100% back

Our best bet is to try to find a contract dump, or get younger prospects for guys like Garza, Soriano, Dejesus or one of the "scott's" if they work out.

Other than that we'll have to keep gambling on guys that could bounce back. I know it's hard to keep expectations down, but It would be completely counterproductive to go out and sign whatever the best available player is, just to stink less next season. It's easy to spend other people's money like it's fantasy baseball. Bottom line is they are trying to build a team that will compete very soon, BUT also make sure it has the system to compete every season not just a small window.

[Tracer Bullet]

If you truly believe that TT's responses to some of the drama in this thread is "holier than thou BS whining" then there's simply no hope for you. Asking that every non-event not be met with a hundred overly dramatic posts is not holier than thou nor BS.

 

The Cubs getting close to signing and then losing out on a major free agent isn't a non-event.

 

And where was the drama? It's a message board for discussing a professional sports team. None of us should care at all about anything they do, but the fact is we do care or else we wouldn't spend any time on here in the first place. If you want to ban sarcastic comments that express the disappointment in seeing your team fail to improve then go right ahead. I don't see the point of such an endeavor.

 

 

"No hope for you."

 

Again with the piety. So impressive.

 

How is anything being said pious? Were asking people to stop freaking out about everything great or small.

[Derwood]

The Cubs should paint all of the baseballs blue this year

[neely crenshaw]

Marcum said yesterday his goal is to sign with a contender. Sizemore's not going to be ready to go until close to midseason. The demand is still far outweighing the supply right now. Ross has 3 year deals out there and is trying to get a 4th, I think. It's not a pretty picture.

 

Then you wait some more. At this stage, with what's left, I just don't know if you need to jump into any multi-year commitments (well, I can live with 2 year deals for some of the guys left, and maybe 3 for Jackson, so I guess there are certain cases), which is the likely cost of business with the top guys left available in FA.

 

If they didn't already have an incredible amount of financial flexibility or if they had a lot tied up into the next 2-4 years then I'd be more hesitant to sign these guys. But this team's only advantage over others now is their money, and they might as well use it. The goal isn't to have the most efficiently structured roster, it's to win more than the other guys. Paying Jackson more than he's worth in 2015 isn't going to prevent them from accomplishing anything.

 

Why? is overpaying Jackson for 3-4 years going to make you good over the next 2? We'd be better but if overpaying him maybe got us 5 more wins that would be a lot. Why spend for something you don't really want?

If you "wanted" a new car and they didn't have the one you wanted, would you just buy the best one available or would you wait to get something you really wanted.

Getting Sanchez for 5 years was a good deal because chances are he would still be something they valued when we hopefully compete. Jackson doesn't seem to be that type.

We just seem to be too worried about winning a few more games this year over getting to the goal. Win 50, win 60, win 70 does it really matter when it is very clear that no matter how well things go, this current club can not possibly contend.

Edited December 14, 2012 by neely crenshaw

[jersey cubs fan]

If you truly believe that TT's responses to some of the drama in this thread is "holier than thou BS whining" then there's simply no hope for you. Asking that every non-event not be met with a hundred overly dramatic posts is not holier than thou nor BS.

 

The Cubs getting close to signing and then losing out on a major free agent isn't a non-event.

 

And where was the drama? It's a message board for discussing a professional sports team. None of us should care at all about anything they do, but the fact is we do care or else we wouldn't spend any time on here in the first place. If you want to ban sarcastic comments that express the disappointment in seeing your team fail to improve then go right ahead. I don't see the point of such an endeavor.

 

 

"No hope for you."

 

Again with the piety. So impressive.

 

How is anything being said pious? Were asking people to stop freaking out about everything great or small.

You have a very low threshold for declaring a freak out.

People made smartass comments and were criticized for it, as though this forum should only be reserved for serious discussion. It wasn't freaking out, it was smartass comments in response to a disappointing situation. Telling people not to respond negatively to this specific situation isn't just asking them to stop freaking out about "everything great or small". It is telling them not to have a negative feeling about anything at all.

[Tracer Bullet]

If you truly believe that TT's responses to some of the drama in this thread is "holier than thou BS whining" then there's simply no hope for you. Asking that every non-event not be met with a hundred overly dramatic posts is not holier than thou nor BS.

 

The Cubs getting close to signing and then losing out on a major free agent isn't a non-event.

 

And where was the drama? It's a message board for discussing a professional sports team. None of us should care at all about anything they do, but the fact is we do care or else we wouldn't spend any time on here in the first place. If you want to ban sarcastic comments that express the disappointment in seeing your team fail to improve then go right ahead. I don't see the point of such an endeavor.

 

 

"No hope for you."

 

Again with the piety. So impressive.

 

How is anything being said pious? Were asking people to stop freaking out about everything great or small.

You have a very low threshold for declaring a freak out.

People made smartass comments and were criticized for it, as though this forum should only be reserved for serious discussion. It wasn't freaking out, it was smartass comments in response to a disappointing situation. Telling people not to respond negatively to this specific situation isn't just asking them to stop freaking out about "everything great or small". It is telling them not to have a negative feeling about anything at all.

 

And you know damn well that this is the latest in a long line of such responses. You may spin the requests however you like.

[jersey cubs fan]

Why? is overpaying Jackson for 3-4 years going to make you good over the next 2?

 

You should never make a decision on an acquisition based on whether or not that person would make you good by himself. No one player is going to make the difference between good or bad. It could make you better, and specifically should provide you the depth needed to turnaround and make a separate deal that improves you in another area.

[jersey cubs fan]

 

And you know damn well that this is the latest in a long line of such responses. You may spin the requests however you like.

 

With a team that has sucked for 3 years and looks to be bad for at least another it should not be a surprise to anybody that there has been a lost line of disappointments. Getting upset with fans for caring doesn't make sense to me.

[Guest]

 

And you know damn well that this is the latest in a long line of such responses. You may spin the requests however you like.

 

With a team that has sucked for 3 years and looks to be bad for at least another it should not be a surprise to anybody that there has been a lost line of disappointments. Getting upset with fans for caring doesn't make sense to me.

 

People can respond however they want. When a high volume of repetitive responses bothers people, they're also free to respond by saying that those people are being obnoxious. There's a continuum here. No one is saying not to express a negative feeling at all. What I'm saying is that the volume of sarcastic rejoinders hitting the same note is a bit much, and that it's okay to let other's posts speak for your opinion instead of adding to the noise.

[neely crenshaw]

Why? is overpaying Jackson for 3-4 years going to make you good over the next 2?

 

You should never make a decision on an acquisition based on whether or not that person would make you good by himself. No one player is going to make the difference between good or bad. It could make you better, and specifically should provide you the depth needed to turnaround and make a separate deal that improves you in another area.

 

I would agree but I don't see anymore deals that would do anything different. There just aren't players out there. my thinking was why spend or over spend for guy that improves you some but is not a game changer, or someone you want long term. I wouldn't mind jackson for 1 or possibly 2 years, I just don't see him signing that type of a deal with us. I also don't see a deal of consequence left to add depth around him. If he was one of 2 or 3 deals then I could see it. We just have such a poor offense that adding middle to end of the staff help(ok, on a normal staff) to overpay and give big years too just doesn't make much sense.

[jersey cubs fan]

Why? is overpaying Jackson for 3-4 years going to make you good over the next 2?

 

You should never make a decision on an acquisition based on whether or not that person would make you good by himself. No one player is going to make the difference between good or bad. It could make you better, and specifically should provide you the depth needed to turnaround and make a separate deal that improves you in another area.

 

I would agree but I don't see anymore deals that would do anything different. There just aren't players out there. my thinking was why spend or over spend for guy that improves you some but is not a game changer, or someone you want long term. I wouldn't mind jackson for 1 or possibly 2 years, I just don't see him signing that type of a deal with us. I also don't see a deal of consequence left to add depth around him. If he was one of 2 or 3 deals then I could see it. We just have such a poor offense that adding middle to end of the staff help(ok, on a normal staff) to overpay and give big years too just doesn't make much sense.

 

What doesn't make sense about it? You still have to field a team. You still have to try to win the games you play. You still have a shot to luck into contention of nothing else. The notion that you shouldn't sign players until you are already good does not make a whole lot of sense.

[Backtobanks]

My biggest concern is that when it comes time to spend and make big trades, we may be disappointed again. When the discussion about hiring Theo happened, I posted that many posters were acting like all of the other teams were going roll over and let Theo sign or trade for whoever he wanted. With all of the TV money floating around, there's going to be a lot of teams overspending in 2014-2015 on FAs. Also, names like Stanton, Price, Felix, etc. as trade bit are going to have a lot of GMs lined up to acquire them.

[neely crenshaw]

I think it doesn't make sense to sign a guy you don't really want to a longer deal simply because he's all that's left. Jackson would be an upgrade but if it's more than a year or two, at big money there should be better options later. I guess it just depends on what they have to pay and how long for it to make sense. It's easy to say just pay when it's not your money.

 

I'm not saying I'm totally against it. I am saying that if he isn't in the long term plans (like Sanchez seemed to be) then it doesn't make a lot of sense to spend a lot and for a lot of years to get someone to help us be slightly better this and maybe next before we get who we really want.

When odds are we are going to cut loose Garza at some point, (and hopefully others) why sign a guy you don't want long term to a 4 year deal and overspend to get him here.

[jersey cubs fan]

I think it doesn't make sense to sign a guy you don't really want to a longer deal simply because he's all that's left. Jackson would be an upgrade but if it's more than a year or two, at big money there should be better options later. I guess it just depends on what they have to pay and how long for it to make sense. It's easy to say just pay when it's not your money.

 

I'm not saying I'm totally against it. I am saying that if he isn't in the long term plans (like Sanchez seemed to be) then it doesn't make a lot of sense to spend a lot and for a lot of years to get someone to help us be slightly better this and maybe next before we get who we really want.

When odds are we are going to cut loose Garza at some point, (and hopefully others) why sign a guy you don't want long term to a 4 year deal and overspend to get him here.

 

The long-term cannot be the only focus. If you want him here for 4 years, or think you can trade him in 2-3 years, then sign him to a 4-year contract if that is what it takes. You cannot only work in the ideal. Maybe you wanted other people more, but if you aren't willing to spend on them you have to settle for your third or fourth option. You have to field a team.

[neely crenshaw]

My biggest concern is that when it comes time to spend and make big trades, we may be disappointed again. When the discussion about hiring Theo happened, I posted that many posters were acting like all of the other teams were going roll over and let Theo sign or trade for whoever he wanted. With all of the TV money floating around, there's going to be a lot of teams overspending in 2014-2015 on FAs. Also, names like Stanton, Price, Felix, etc. as trade bit are going to have a lot of GMs lined up to acquire them.

Good point but I'd rather have them looking spend the money on who they really want instead of hendry spending money on whoever is there. It's also another reason that we have to build up our entire system. We have to have prospects to build, and prospects to deal for guys others that are not yet free agents.

If we go back to just trying to buy a team and spend like a drunken sailor, we can compete pretty quickly but for how long and a what cost. This is the most proven front office we have had since dallas green, they won't sign everyone the set out for but we have to believe they will put their best effort out there.

right now if you look at sanchez, Cubs or tigers..really? chance to win a lot vs being 2-3 years away.