Game 12 - Seattle Seahawks @ BEARS - 12 PM - Louis on IR :(

[Guest]

Okay resident Seahawk fan back for more punishment. Nothing good ever comes from going to Chicago for the Seahawks and based on the 4th quarter in Miami this past week, the Bears should be favored by 7 at least. For those betting, take the 3.5 now before it gets upped. That would be the lock of the season. The Seahawks OLine is in just as bad shape and have 2 players in top five penalties. Lynch has had 2 subpar games and the D-Line that looked great in the 1st half of the dreaded Packer game hasnt been the same since.

 

Except the last two regular season games here.

[Soul]

Also, from a far, I agree with the comments on Cutler not getting any positive national attention. A shame considering how good he is. I can relate to the misery as a west coast person my whole life, many of the stars out here are left with the same treatment, simply based on ignorance.

 

I was shocked this morning on the Mike & Mike show -- Mark Schlereth said Cutler deserves to be in the MVP conversation.

 

I don't necessarily agree with it, but ever since Cutler dismissed himself from the Broncos Schlereth has been drinking Cutler haterade by the gallon.

 

I think there are a few out there who are beginning to turn a little more positive on Cutler. It helps illustrate how talented he is when he's *not* in the lineup, and people see what the Bears offense really is without a good QB.

[jersey cubs fan]

Also, from a far, I agree with the comments on Cutler not getting any positive national attention. A shame considering how good he is. I can relate to the misery as a west coast person my whole life, many of the stars out here are left with the same treatment, simply based on ignorance.

 

Name one.

[PosterToBeNamedLater]

Also, from a far, I agree with the comments on Cutler not getting any positive national attention. A shame considering how good he is. I can relate to the misery as a west coast person my whole life, many of the stars out here are left with the same treatment, simply based on ignorance.

 

Name one.

I think he probably meant in the seahawks case that players are ignored and not given the positive credit they deserve. I would love it if Cutler was just ignored. I don't know how many players I have ever seen get the undeserved negative treatment Cutler does.

[Thed Hoyerstein]

Also, from a far, I agree with the comments on Cutler not getting any positive national attention. A shame considering how good he is. I can relate to the misery as a west coast person my whole life, many of the stars out here are left with the same treatment, simply based on ignorance.

 

Name one.

 

I could see how Mike Trout would have won the MVP if he played in New York vs. Anaheim based purely on market exposure. And you could also point to the Jeremy Lin non-stop coverage last year- I highly doubt that he would have received that type of attention if he was playing in Utah instead of the Knicks (I use Utah as an example because the Jazz and Knicks had similar finishes in their respective conferences last year).

 

Having said that, I realize I'm comparing two different sports but could you imagine the hype that Russell Wilson would have if he was putting up the same numbers in New York/Philly/etc. as opposed to Seattle? I mean, 17 TD's, 8 INT's, 93 QB Rating, and several high-profile comebacks is awfully impressive for a rookie QB. Not to mention how well-liked is he by the media (and we see it first hand how much the media plays into a players perception on a national stage).

[Sammy Sofa]

Trout not winning the MVP had everything to do with Cabrera winning the Triple Crown and nothing to do with Trout being in Anaheim. Claiming that California players are relatively ignored is ridiculous, unless you're trying to claim that guys like Matt Kemp and Tim Lincecum are local cult heroes instead of superstars.

[jersey cubs fan]

Also, from a far, I agree with the comments on Cutler not getting any positive national attention. A shame considering how good he is. I can relate to the misery as a west coast person my whole life, many of the stars out here are left with the same treatment, simply based on ignorance.

 

Name one.

 

I could see how Mike Trout would have won the MVP if he played in New York vs. Anaheim based purely on market exposure. And you could also point to the Jeremy Lin non-stop coverage last year- I highly doubt that he would have received that type of attention if he was playing in Utah instead of the Knicks (I use Utah as an example because the Jazz and Knicks had similar finishes in their respective conferences last year).

 

Having said that, I realize I'm comparing two different sports but could you imagine the hype that Russell Wilson would have if he was putting up the same numbers in New York/Philly/etc. as opposed to Seattle? I mean, 17 TD's, 8 INT's, 93 QB Rating, and several high-profile comebacks is awfully impressive for a rookie QB. Not to mention how well-liked is he by the media (and we see it first hand how much the media plays into a players perception on a national stage).

 

Cutler is a good player who is constantly lambasted by the national media as a horrible malcontent that hurts his team despite all the evidence to the contrary. That treatment is not at all similar to Mike Trout missing out on MVP to a triple crown winner.

[Banedon]

Besides that, west coast baseball games are often on late at night after east coasters are in bed. That's not the case with the NFL. All prime time games are at the same time, regardless of the teams home region. And most games are in the afternoons on Sunday. It's not as easy to lose track of west coast teams in the NFL as it is in the other 3 major sports. If anything, the NFL should be the one case where west coasters aren't ignored.

[sneakypower]

the Cutler for MVP talk is mystifying to me, mainly because: have there been many games so far where the Bears don't win with just a completely average QB in there? this might sound antagonistic, but it's more that i respect the Bears defense and give them most of the credit for the team's success so far

 

i'm OK with giving Cutler credit for the Panthers win (with a huge assist from Jennings), but beyond that all their wins look more like defense-dictated blowouts

 

and if you argue that his backups are so dismal that it elevates his importance, then you can probably then make an even easier argument for Roethlisberger's case; it's like saying Louis Delmas is the most valuable safety in the league because our primary backups are a ST and practice squad guy that get horribly abused by opposing offenses

[Sammy Sofa]

Of course the MVP talk is ridiculous; it's just funny and Cutler is awesome and sexy.

[Banedon]

Yeah, Deadspin wrote that article about Cutler being an hero instead of an antihero, and then a bunch of other sites took it to the extreme.

 

Cutler MVP conversations without a mustache = 0

 

Cutler MVP conversations with a mustache > 0

[jersey cubs fan]

the Cutler for MVP talk is mystifying to me, mainly because: have there been many games so far where the Bears don't win with just a completely average QB in there? this might sound antagonistic, but it's more that i respect the Bears defense and give them most of the credit for the team's success so far

 

i'm OK with giving Cutler credit for the Panthers win (with a huge assist from Jennings), but beyond that all their wins look more like defense-dictated blowouts

 

and if you argue that his backups are so dismal that it elevates his importance, then you can probably then make an even easier argument for Roethlisberger's case; it's like saying Louis Delmas is the most valuable safety in the league because our primary backups are a ST and practice squad guy that get horribly abused by opposing offenses

 

Well it's not like saying that at all actually and you know that.

 

He shouldn't be in the actual talks for the award (and really he isn't, despite a couple talking heads just doing what talking heads do), but the fact that the team is lost without him playing should at least be acknowledged.

 

As for the results, you must be thinking of only the Jacksonville and Tenn games. Without Cutler, and with the offense playing as inept as they always do without Cutler, they arguably wouldn't have been able to win the Indy, Detroit, Dallas and Carolina games, and in all honesty they probably struggle against Minny as well. Cutler still had to improvise plays throughout that game. They defense hasn't been doing it all. And a lot of what they have done has been in situations where Cutler's offense has put the opposition in a position where they have to throw a lot to scramble back into the game. Without Cutler this offense would do nothing and the defense would be on the field forever. As old guys who play a bend but don't break style, having an offense at least move and keep the ball is vital. Without it they will wear down and look awful.

[Smack]

Is he shaving the mustache before Sunday since it will be December?

[sneakypower]

As for the results, you must be thinking of only the Jacksonville and Tenn games. Without Cutler, and with the offense playing as inept as they always do without Cutler, they arguably wouldn't have been able to win the Indy, Detroit, Dallas and Carolina games, and in all honesty they probably struggle against Minny as well. Cutler still had to improvise plays throughout that game. They defense hasn't been doing it all. And a lot of what they have done has been in situations where Cutler's offense has put the opposition in a position where they have to throw a lot to scramble back into the game. Without Cutler this offense would do nothing and the defense would be on the field forever. As old guys who play a bend but don't break style, having an offense at least move and keep the ball is vital. Without it they will wear down and look awful.

he was stellar against Dallas, and i don't deny that, but the defense themselves outscored Dallas up until a garbage-time TD with :34 left in the game. i already gave you the Carolina game too, and looking closer you're probably right about the Colts game (29% WPA, +13.8 EPA)

 

but the Detroit game, he had a completely neutral effect on their win probability and expected points, and didn't even muster 5 YPA. this also wasn't a game where you could say the OL completely betrayed him. PFF: "Customarily the offensive line draws the ire of Jay Cutler due to its pass protection, but their Pass Blocking Efficiency this week as a unit was 82.5, their second best mark of the season with only Lance Louis (-0.3 pass blocking) grading negatively in pass protection."

 

so even then, we're left with 2-3 games you can argue they might have had a tough time winning with just an average backup QB (of which they have none, of course) playing instead; i just feel most other QBs can make that argument, plus some

 

also, fwiw- he's in the bottom 10 amongst QBs for WPA, EPA, QB rating, which is the main cause of my puzzlement over these articles that have started popping up of late

[UMFan83]

Is he shaving the mustache before Sunday since it will be December?

 

On his radio show on Monday, he said that he would be clean shaven the next time he was on the show the following Monday, so I'm guessing that means he shaves it on 12/1 at 12:00 AM

[jersey cubs fan]

As for the results, you must be thinking of only the Jacksonville and Tenn games. Without Cutler, and with the offense playing as inept as they always do without Cutler, they arguably wouldn't have been able to win the Indy, Detroit, Dallas and Carolina games, and in all honesty they probably struggle against Minny as well. Cutler still had to improvise plays throughout that game. They defense hasn't been doing it all. And a lot of what they have done has been in situations where Cutler's offense has put the opposition in a position where they have to throw a lot to scramble back into the game. Without Cutler this offense would do nothing and the defense would be on the field forever. As old guys who play a bend but don't break style, having an offense at least move and keep the ball is vital. Without it they will wear down and look awful.

he was stellar against Dallas, and i don't deny that, but the defense themselves outscored Dallas up until a garbage-time TD with :34 left in the game. i already gave you the Carolina game too, and looking closer you're probably right about the Colts game (29% WPA, +13.8 EPA)

 

but the Detroit game, he had a completely neutral effect on their win probability and expected points, and didn't even muster 5 YPA. this also wasn't a game where you could say the OL completely betrayed him. PFF: "Customarily the offensive line draws the ire of Jay Cutler due to its pass protection, but their Pass Blocking Efficiency this week as a unit was 82.5, their second best mark of the season with only Lance Louis (-0.3 pass blocking) grading negatively in pass protection."

 

so even then, we're left with 2-3 games you can argue they might have had a tough time winning with just an average backup QB (of which they have none, of course) playing instead; i just feel most other QBs can make that argument, plus some

 

also, fwiw- he's in the bottom 10 amongst QBs for WPA, EPA, QB rating, which is the main cause of my puzzlement over these articles that have started popping up of late

 

 

First off, those stats are hardly gospel. They are extremely flawed and in a game like football where what the man does next to you can extremely effect what you do, as opposed to baseball, you should not treat them the way you are trying to treat them here. Secondly, it's been shown time and time again that without Cutler the Bears offense goes in the toilet. They don't just struggle, they are impotent.

 

And again, there is not actual Cutler for MVP talk. He's not in the running. A couple talking heads have thrown his name around as a way of talking about how lost his team is without him. But at the end of the year he won't be anywhere close to getting the award.

Edited November 28, 2012 by jersey cubs fan

[jersey cubs fan]

Is he shaving the mustache before Sunday since it will be December?

 

On his radio show on Monday, he said that he would be clean shaven the next time he was on the show the following Monday, so I'm guessing that means he shaves it on 12/1 at 12:00 AM

 

Why is he staying up so late two nights before the game? This is awful.

[sneakypower]

First off, those stats are hardly gospel. They are extremely flawed and in a game like football where what the man does next to you can extremely effect what you do, as opposed to baseball, you should not treat them the way you are trying to treat them here. Secondly, it's been shown time and time again that without Cutler the Bears offense goes in the toilet. They don't just struggle, they are impotent.

then how do you propose we evaluate QBs with any shred of objectivity? i've probably watched the majority of Bears games and had the same reactions, but that alone assuredly would get shrugged off as homerism

 

PFF, which evaluates players on a purely individual level, didn't include him in their Top 51 Players of the season list a short while back (Briggs was #35, Marshall #12, Tillman #6)

[scarey]

First off, those stats are hardly gospel. They are extremely flawed and in a game like football where what the man does next to you can extremely effect what you do, as opposed to baseball, you should not treat them the way you are trying to treat them here. Secondly, it's been shown time and time again that without Cutler the Bears offense goes in the toilet. They don't just struggle, they are impotent.

then how do you propose we evaluate QBs with any shred of objectivity? i've probably watched the majority of Bears games and had the same reactions, but that alone assuredly would get shrugged off as homerism

 

PFF, which evaluates players on a purely individual level, didn't include him in their Top 51 Players of the season list a short while back (Briggs was #35, Marshall #12, Tillman #6)

 

I doubt anyone here will argue that he's one of the top 51 players of the season.

 

What anyone will say is that Jay Cutler is extremely important to this team's success. Why you continue to try to put words in people's mouths that state otherwise is beyond me.

[Banedon]

First off, those stats are hardly gospel. They are extremely flawed and in a game like football where what the man does next to you can extremely effect what you do, as opposed to baseball, you should not treat them the way you are trying to treat them here. Secondly, it's been shown time and time again that without Cutler the Bears offense goes in the toilet. They don't just struggle, they are impotent.

then how do you propose we evaluate QBs with any shred of objectivity? i've probably watched the majority of Bears games and had the same reactions, but that alone assuredly would get shrugged off as homerism

 

PFF, which evaluates players on a purely individual level, didn't include him in their Top 51 Players of the season list a short while back (Briggs was #35, Marshall #12, Tillman #6)

 

I didn't see Stafford on that list. I therefore declare my belief that Stafford sucks to be true.

[sneakypower]

I doubt anyone here will argue that he's one of the top 51 players of the season.

 

What anyone will say is that Jay Cutler is extremely important to this team's success. Why you continue to try to put words in people's mouths that state otherwise is beyond me.

"Bears QB Jay Cutler for MVP? Yes, he deserves serious consideration"

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--jay-cutler-for-mvp--yes--he-deserves-serious-consideration-020935212.html

[Banedon]

I doubt anyone here will argue that he's one of the top 51 players of the season.

 

What anyone will say is that Jay Cutler is extremely important to this team's success. Why you continue to try to put words in people's mouths that state otherwise is beyond me.

"Bears QB Jay Cutler for MVP? Yes, he deserves serious consideration"

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--jay-cutler-for-mvp--yes--he-deserves-serious-consideration-020935212.html

 

Things that nobody on this message board said, for $1000, Alex.

[sneakypower]

recap

 

the article was brought up on here

 

i said: "the Cutler for MVP talk is mystifying to me"

 

somebody else: "continue to try to put words in people's mouths"

 

so i link to the article previously brought up, with the Cutler for MVP talk

[Banedon]

recap

 

the article was brought up on here

 

i said: "the Cutler for MVP talk is mystifying to me"

 

somebody else: "continue to try to put words in people's mouths"

 

so i link to the article previously brought up, with the Cutler for MVP talk

 

Oops! You forgot some things in your recap! Just an oversight I'm sure.

 

Of course the MVP talk is ridiculous; it's just funny and Cutler is awesome and sexy.

 

Yeah, Deadspin wrote that article about Cutler being an hero instead of an antihero, and then a bunch of other sites took it to the extreme.

 

He shouldn't be in the actual talks for the award (and really he isn't, despite a couple talking heads just doing what talking heads do), but the fact that the team is lost without him playing should at least be acknowledged.

 

And again, there is not actual Cutler for MVP talk. He's not in the running. A couple talking heads have thrown his name around as a way of talking about how lost his team is without him. But at the end of the year he won't be anywhere close to getting the award.

 

So the question is, who are you arguing with? Cuz if it's the yahoo guy...he doesn't post here.

[sneakypower]

those replies...were in response to what i first posted about the yahoo guy's article

 

do you want some kind of a tutorial on how to read a message board or something?